Sorry I am new to this forum and still asking for lots of advice. But I can offer you this. If you mean installing the refridgerator right next to the oven, this wouldn't be a good idea. This was my present set up. The heat is too great for the fridge beside it. But again, mine was a gas oven and not a built in model so it may be different.

We installed a double oven next to our refrigerator. It is an electric Kenmore Pro, and we have a Kenmore refrigerator as well. We have had no issues at all. As a matter of fact, the oven is insulated so well that when we cooked Thanksgiving dinner last week, the glass front door did not even get hot. I had to keep checking to make sure it was on. I had reservations about this design but we were restricted on where we could place them since the kitchen is completely open to the dining room and main living room and I did not want to see the appliances from all areas in the house.

Hey brittonv, welcome to the site.

While its nice to be thinking about specific appliances early on the layout is key.

Someone once told me to think of cabinets as furniture. Get the layout figured out first and then go from there.

Some early questions - what are the dimensions of the space. Its much easier to help with the layout when dimensions are known.

Are you saying you would use the pantry space for the ovens/fridge...not actually putting them in the pantry (as if they were in a separate room)?

How many cooks? Kids in the house, and do they like to help out in the kitchen?

Think of the kitchen as zones, food storage, prep, cook, cleanup.

Where do you eat everyday meals?
Do you do lots of entertaining?

A couple of quick answers:
You do NOT need a built in fridge to place them next to a refridgerator.

Depending on how much baking, etc you do could help determine oven width. I'd always vote for wider since it will accomodate smaller pans, but a smaller oven can never get bigger. What size oven do you have now?

Where do groceries enter the house?

etc, etc....

My first thought would be to put the ovens where the fridge is now. Assuming I'm correct about your thoughts for the pantry place the fridge where the current pantry door is. The remainder of the pnatry could be used using smaller (bifold?)doors and still give you space for the gadgets, etc.

Is there room to slide the peninsula down towards the FR in your drawing? This could give you some additional counterspace and layout options.

Thank you all for your help, and the kind welcome!

I have updated the Layout picture of my current kitchen to include Dimensions http://www.thebritttons.net/vince/kitchen.jpg

In order to put the Oven/Refrigerator in the Pantry I would be using the space, correct. I would tear out the wall and install them in place. Surrounding them with like cabinetry as installed in the rest of the kitchen.

We eat everyday meals in the Eating area "south" of the kitchen. We have a little 4 seated table there. We dont do much entertaining, outside of the big family holidays. Then we used the dining room.

Moving the peninsula down wouldn't work for 2 reasons, 1 it would make our primary eating area smaller but most importantly it has a low WAF (Wife Approval Factor) If we moved it south it would be one of the first things you saw when you walked into the house. Since it seems to be the place where stuff accumulates, my wife doesnt want that.

I probably use my oven 2 or 3 times a week to broil or for braising with the occasional ham thrown it. I'd like to bake more but have never gotten into it. Part of the reason is my current oven leaves a lot to be desired.

There are 2 small children in the home with 1 cook, me. My eldest son likes to get on his learning tower from time to time and help out.

Groceries enter the house from the Foyer, and usually start on the Peninsula. I unload the car to there then put them away.

Expanding into the Living Room (or as I call it the Christmas Tree room since we only use it once a year) is an option.

Thanks again!

I think moving the refrigerator is an excellent idea and no, it doesn't matter today if you put ovens next to a refrigerator--the insulation in today's ovens and refrigerators plus the wood cabinet sides protect them from each other. However, I also think you should consider putting the ovens where your current refrigerator is and, if possible, move the cooktop a little to the left to allow better landing space b/w the two.

Question: Can that small wall to the right of the current refrigerator be taken down? It so, it would add 3 inches or so to the cabinet run (walls usually approx 5" - 2" for clearance or molding = 3"). 3" may not seem like a lot, but it can make a difference!

Since the groceries come in from the Foyer, a pantry next to the refrigerator is a good location since it's near that entrance to the kitchen. However, I would put the refrigerator on the right b/c I think you'll need closer landing space for the refrigerator more often than the pantry.

You have a nice deep area for your new refrigerator location, so you will not need to worry about getting counter-depth. You should be able to get a standard depth refrigerator, adding space & saving $$$

If you could also take the right pantry wall down, it would add another 5" in that area as well....giving you:
61-3/4" + 5" + 2" (little end sticking out) = 68-3/4" wide area to work with

minus

36" refrigerator + 3/4" finished end panel (Foyer side) = 36-3/4"

Leaving you with 68-3/4" - 36-3/4" = 32" to work with for pantry...

A couple of pantry options:

* Small walk-in pantry w/bifold doors: 5" for wall b/w refrigerator & pantry....leaving 27" for the inside of small walk-in pantry. With 12" shelves around 2 sides (side & back), that leaves about 15"W x 22" deep for "walk-in" space. Hmmmmm...if you don't mount the shelves on the refrigerator side, you probably wouldn't need the 5" wall, just another 3/4" panel or so....that would give you and additional 4-1/4" in width...so: 19-1/4" W x 22" D "walk-in" area.

OR

* 30" wide pantry cabinet...but if you go the entire depth of the alcove, you would have very deep shelves that would be difficult to get to the back of...even w/full extension shelves...if they even make them that deep.

Living Room: Is the wall b/w the kitchen & LR load bearing? Something to think about...it can get expensive to take down a load-bearing wall. BUT, if you could do that, it would open up a lot more space for your pantry and perhaps even allow you to have Message Center to corral all the clutter that seems to accumulate on the peninsula.

It would actually open up other possibilities as well...additional cabinet run, etc. Oh, and don't forget a Utility Cabinet somewhere for brooms, mops, etc.

I drew up an idea...

Structural changes:

I removed the following walls:
* both pantry wall sides (left the back wall)
* the wall next to the current refrigerator

I then expanded the kitchen 3' into the LR...you said you would consider expanding into the "Christmas Tree room" :-) If 3' is too much, you could do 2' and reduce the depth of the Pantry and the "Dish Hutch" (more on that later). However, unless you want a counter-depth refrigerator, I would at least leave the 3' depth for the Message Center & Refrigerator...both of which are contained in the original pantry alcove space.

I added another pantry wall 4' from the DR side (see pic below)

Layout:

I incorporated all your appliances and added a prep sink.

Your work flow goes from the refrigerator......to the prep sink and prep on the peninsula......to the cooktop or ovens......to the cleanup sink or DR.

Message Center: You mentioned the peninsula seems to be a clutter magnet. By adding a Message Center you should be able to cut down on some of the clutter. The Message Center would have the house/land line phone (this location is convenient to both the kitchen and the FR); a place to recharge cell phones, cameras, etc.; a place to store phone books & directories; and a place for your keys and other paraphernalia that seems to accumulate at entrances.

Refrigerator: Good location b/c while it's in the kitchen, it's still convenient to the FR and outsiders using it won't interfere with the prep, cooking, and cleanup. Landing Space: Dish Hutch

Dish Hutch: This 30"W x 30"D cabinet is really a 30"W x 30"D base cabinet plus a countertop plus a 30"W x 15"D ceiling height wall cabinet with, possibly, glass doors. This will give it a furniture look and will provide a lot of storage space for dishes, small appliances, gadgets, etc. The 15" deep countertop can also serve as landing space for the Refrigerator and Pantry.

Pantry: This actually can work two ways:

(1) Shallow walk-in. 48"W x 30"D with 15" deep shelves floor to ceiling along the back wall. Then, along the side walls, you could install peg boards and store things like brooms, mops, etc....or anything else you like (e.g., someone on GW stores their pots & pans in their very shallow (12"D?) pantry hung from pegboards on the back and side walls.) Bi-fold doors provide full access to the pantry front.

(2) Pantry Pullouts. You could alternately put in 52" of pullout pantry cabinets. Why 52" instead of 48"? B/c if you use pantry cabinets you won't need that 4-1/2" wall like you do w/the walk-in. (There may be a way to eliminate that wall for the walk-in as well, but I would be careful since a door will be hanging from it. Shelves can be secured along the back.)

Landing Space: Dish Hutch

Peninsula: From what I can tell from your current layout, it appears that you currently have a 12" overhang. 15" is recommended for counter-height seating. It means expanding only 3" into the FR.

It also provides a nice expanse of countertop (84" x 39"!! I'm envious!!) for baking, normal prep work, school/art/craft projects, and homework (if you have school-age children). Hopefully, DW will be OK with that.

I also added a prep sink to that area to keep the cleanup and prep zones separate (and to provide a place to wash hands or get a drink of water w/o interfering w/the kitchen work). [In our home, DH and I are always in each other's way since we only have one sink and it's only 24" away from the range. We're adding a prep sink and moving the cleanup sink to the other side of the kitchen when we remodel.] Prep Sink Landing Space: Right of sink

Next to the prep sink, I added a 12" trash pullout for prep scraps.

Note one other thing: I put in a Beverage Chiller (or could be Wine Chiller or small refrigerator) under the peninsula counter on the FR side and added a 12" x 12" wall cabinet facing the FR on the end of the window wall to hold cups, napkins, etc. Things that might be useful in the FR. It could also have 2 doors--one opening on the kitchen side and the other the FR side.

Window Wall:

I put in a 33" double-bowl sink (1-3/4) under the window. It's not quite centered (off by 1.5"), but I don't think it will be noticeable. I wasn't sure if you wanted a double- or single-bowl, so I put in a double. [If you're unsure, search the forum for several discussions on single vs double sinks!...oh, be sure to use the "search" box at the bottom of the page, not the top!]

I also bumped out the sink 3" to give you more room behind the sink. I've noticed that most sinks take up the majority of the depth of counters, leaving very little room for faucets & soap dispensers. By adding 3" it gives you a little "breathing space" behind the sink. The 3" on either side could be converted to a "filler pullout" (see the Rev-A-Shelf Spice Racks for Fillers -- Have you seen these!!!! thread).

If possible, I would also recommend bringing the window down to the counter height and running your counter into the sill. Several GWers have done this and it looks very nice... (see the Counter Height Windows Love them? Hate them? thread)

The DW is to the left of the sink (it's the reason I had to put the sink slightly off center. If the sink is smaller, it could probably be centered).

To the right of the sink is a full-size trash pullout for sink & cooking scraps. You may also be able to put a recycle can in there (2 cans total).

There's a 36" lazy susan b/w the trash pullout and the cooktop (corner)

Sink Landing Space: Both sides of sink

Cooking Wall: This wall has your 36" induction cooktop w/a 42" vent hood, vented to the outside. It is highly recommended that vent hoods be at least 6" wider than your cooktop to better catch heat, grease, smoke, etc.

There is also a 6" spice/oils pullout to the left of the cooktop. (see the Rev-A-Shelf thread above).

Then, there's 24" of landing/space b/w the cooktop and the ovens.

The oven stack contains your Convection MW and Convection Wall Oven.

Cooktop Landing Space: Left & right of cooktop
Oven Landing Space: Left of oven stack

Doorways & Clearances:

Between the ovens and pantry: 42". This is also the size of the doorway into the DR.

Between the Message Center and peninsula: 42"

+++++++++ And now, the picture! ++++++++++++

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Some general recommendations:

* Mostly drawers in your base cabinets. Especially the wider ones. The wider drawers are perfect for pots & pans. Other drawers are great for "tupperware", utensils, linens, baking tools, prep tools, etc.

Check out the following threads:

What do you wish you had done differently?

Best advice from this forum

Now that I have [X], I think I could have lived without it

Checklist For Granite Installation? (just in case!)

tray cabinets - top 1/2 wasted space

And, to help you with our kitchen design:

Kitchen Forum FAQ

I hope you like it. However, remember this is your kitchen, so if you don't like it, change it!

Good luckand let me know if you have any questions or thoughts!

Since I'm on a roll tonight, I thought I'd the following! ;-)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Once you have the basic design, it's time to analyze your storage needs in each zone. The results of that analysis will drive the size of your cabinets/drawers. (The following is a general write-up I've come up with...)
. . .

1. First, make a list of everything you plan to store in your kitchen (regardless of where it's stored now...kitchen, basement, dining room, etc.)
. . .

2. Next, take the list and group the items according to function. Will they be used during prep? cooking? baking? cleanup? Some items, like pot holder, may belong in 2 different zones (in this case, cooking & baking). You can either find storage b/w the two zones or store them in both zones.
. . .

2. Now, determine where each of your zones will be (prep, cleanup, cooking, baking, storage, etc.)
. . .

The next step depends on the stage you are in the design/order process...
. . .

3. If you've already ordered your cabinets, then you will have to work with what you have. So...

....a. Identify the storage potential in each zone and list them on a piece of paper with a section for each cabinet (base & upper) and one line per drawer or shelf in that cabinet. This includes your pantry for your "storage" zone.

....b. Take the two lists and, while imagining yourself working in each zone, put the dishes, tools, etc. that you will be using in cabinets in that zone. Fill in the lines in the cabinet list with these items.
. . .

4. If you're still in the design phase, you'll have the opportunity to plan your storage to meet your needs in each zone.

....a. Take your list and imagine yourself working in each zone.

....b. Go through the motions to determine the best locations for each item that will be used and stored in that zone (don't forget that you will probably have both upper and lower cabinets).

....c. Now that you know where to put the items, determine what the best way is to store those items (drawer, shelf, etc.) and what size (e.g., pots & pans work best in 30" or 36" drawers)

....d. Lastly, transfer what you've done to your design & tweak as necessary.
. . .

You should now have a well-thought out and highly functional kitchen!

This not only helps you to "see" how things will fit, but it also will help when you move back into the kitchen...you won't have to think about it, you'll be able to just put things away. It will also be a handy "map" for everyone to help find things the first few weeks w/o having to open every drawer or door!

Oh, and don't forget the Junk Drawer! Most people end up with one, so you may as well plan for it so you at least have control over where it's located!
. . .

Common Zones:
* Storage--pantry & refrigerator; tupperware, food, wraps & plastic bags, paper towels
* Preparation--sink & trash; utensils, measuring cups/spoons, mixing bowls, colander, jello molds, cutting boards, knives, cook books
* Cooking--cooktop/range & MW; utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, dishes & glasses, flatware, serving dishes (platters, bowls, etc.)
* Baking--ovens/range; utensils, pot holders, trivets, pots & pans, casserole dishes, roasting rack, cooling racks, cookie sheets, foils, rolling pin, cookie cutters, pizza stone, muffin tins
* Cleanup--sink & DW & trash; detergents, linens
* Eating--island/peninsula/table/nook/DR; table linens, placemats, napkins
* Utility--broom, dustpan, swifter, mop, cleaning supplies, cloths, flashlights, batteries, extension cords
* Message Center--phones, charging station, directories/phone books, calendar, desk supplies, dry erase board or chalkboard

Less Common Zones:
* Tea/Coffee Bar--coffeemaker; mugs, teas/coffees, sugar, teapot
* Pet Zone--feeding area; food, snacks

Small Appliances: Toaster, Stand and/or Hand Mixer, Blender, Breadmaker, Toaster Oven, Food Processor, Crockpot, Waffle Iron, Electric Skillet, Coffeemaker, Coffee Grinder, Ricer, Steamer

Potential Items: pots & pans, utensils, small appliances, linens, pot holders, trivets, dish detergents, "Tupperware", knives, pitchers, water bottles, vases, picnic supplies, cook books, etc.

Foods: Spices, Breads, Flours/Sugars, Teas/Coffees, Potatoes, Onions, Canned Goods, Dry Goods (rice, pasta, etc.), Cereals, Snacks

NOTE: If your ceiling or one or more of your walls is coming down, consider wiring for speakers, TV, Computer, etc.

Oh my God!

You are so awesome, I so appreciate all your help and guidance. This is and awesome idea that I hadn't really considered!

Wow, I can't thank you enough!

Hey, if it helps, remember you'll dump much of your old cookware when you go induction and it'll be years before you build up another big collection like you have now! More storage!

You SHOULD be able to put a new oven by any new fridge--maybe not with older appliances, but new ones certainly!

I have a 27" oven and it's fine for the baking that I do. If you go smaller, you'll be cussing at holidays like my mother. You don't want that. I do like the 27" because it preheats a little faster than my 30" did. And, assuming you can fit your turkey in the oven, convection will help when you overcrowd the oven.