If you're a blank slate, copy as much as you can from Dean_I and post that drawing when it's done.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dream Kitchen Finished, in similar shape as yours

Cosmocat - I can't figure out your latest drawing - the side opposite the laundry room - that is open right and the dimensions given are just for how wide the 2 aisles and island is? It kind of looks like cabinets but obviously there is no way to get into the breakfast room so that couldn't be right. Just looking for clarification.

I've been following some of you layout threads (in part b/c I am in the layouy process too) and there are an infinite number of possiblitites... and not a single one of them will be absolutely perfect. I just don't believe such a thing exists. You know this, but you have to weigh the pros and the cons, your needs and what matters to you most to design a kitchen that has more good aspects than bad. Basically do the best you can with what you've got. I think you might be caught in trying to create the perfect layout and since it is impossible, you just keep churning through ideas. Go back to the basics and identify your needs/wants/uses.

I like #1, #4 (but I don't think you have enough space to do this) and #5. I think you have to decide what you would use the island for? It doesn't seem like you have enough room to have it be for both countertop work area and a breakfast bar. However, if you scrap the seating at the island and just use it for prep and serving food, maybe a penisula could serve as a breakfast bar area. I am thinking of my MIL's kitchen - she has a small island 24'' x 4' in the center of her kitchen used only for prep and serving but she also has a diagonal penisula arm breakfast bar. HTH. (I hope I didn't come off as self-righteous. I'm right there with you and it's hard. I guess I was trying to give you permission to "settle" and compromise in some aspect of the design)

thanks NewSouthernBelle. ooohhh you might cause trouble! The peninsula is a no-no ;-) That pic is more a jab at myself and the previous post/comments about the peninsula/island debate. The laundry room just wasn't drawn in because I'm not too worried about the placement of stuff in there.

There is no wall separating the island from the eating area - yes those are measurments from one wall to the next (136-inches). However, the eating area is 28 inches longer.

I like #5 too. I wouldn't use big stools, just the small saddle stools. The island is more a parking your bottom spot - not a full on seating spot with fancy placemat and eat meals zone. Kids can eat breakfast or lunch.

And yes you are right. I constantly second guess myself. But a number of things I want aren't possible so I settle then since I don't have much care then what goes where I just want to make sure I'm doing it correctly. The kitchen needs to be redone because things are falling apart. And it is such a pretty orange. ha.

Wants. I wanted an Aga range because of the red - so tried to design around this but the red didn't really go with the cabinets I wanted. Then I stumbled across induction - and Viking is the only one that has a colored induction range. Or I could do a cooktop with drawers. Here then I start losing room for appliances. I want pretty. I'd like a place for little or big bottoms to sit at the island, but more for a hang out spot for drinking wine or eating a snack. Have a kitchen table and a DR table for true meals. Want little details - stylish elements, traditional styling. Want a fancy hood with a focal point backsplash. At this point I'm not set on particular appliances or use factor. Anything should be more usuable that what I have now. But because of the second guessing I'm trying to go through ALL the scenarios now - so I can say already tried that and it didn't work for reasons x,y,z. Granted I feel that all my wants have been thrown out the window and the whole kitchen is one big compromise.

NSB - not self righteous at all. Sometimes we all get caught up in the details and forget the need to stop and think about the why.

When I did the plan, I tried to work out the most optimum island size, so I'm sticking mostly with that. It's drawn 3 ft wide, and I don't think you have room for more? It's barely over 6 ft long, and you could go longer if you want, but you wanted to avoid a too long and skinny island.

I drew this one based off of a sketch you'd done, I believe, and I really like that idea. It's similar to #5 but with overhang on the ends. If you don't want to reduce the amount of cabinet storage underneath, you could lengthen it another 6 inches or so...Only on the top to get more overhang on the ends.

If you go to a wall oven, will it be a single? If so, I'd stack it with the microwave. That should be a pretty decent location.

Hi Cosmocat. For the longest time while planning our kitchen, I wanted induction. But I soon realized that the kitchen was too small for double wall ovens and my combi/steam oven so I had to have a range. The only induction range at the time was the Diva and not only was it way too expensive (especially since I knew who manufactured it and how much less they charged for their dual fuel version), but DH thought it was ugly and he really wanted fire anyway. We seriously considered Bluestar, Wolf and Capital but ended up with our biggest impulse purchase ever, a Lacanche Volnay, with no regrets. Combined with a Modernaire hood, it is the star of our kitchen and performs beautifully. I still get wistful when I read about other's induction cooktops until I read about error messages and board failures and stuff like that. Which brings me to my point. I have done extensive research on induction and Viking has an appalling reputation. We loved the look of the Viking induction rangetop but I couldn't find one positive review for Viking induction. Mind you, this was a couple of years ago but I can't imagine things have changed much. (We loved the look and layout of Viking refrigerators, too, but they had an even worse track record. Even the sales guy couldn't recommend them and this was at a Viking center). Just wanted to pass this on for what it's worth.

As to the island, I really like Rhome's latest design, and it can easily accommodate a cooktop/wall ovens or a range. Once you finalize your basic layout, don't forget to assign storage to each cabinet before placing your order. You'll want to know exactly where you'll need shallow v deep drawers, organizers. pullouts etc.

I like the style of plan #5, but this is one plan that would really benefit from a prep sink, IMHO. You have to walk between the island and the range, to go from the fridge to the sink. Even a small prep sink would be great for washing veggies or getting a drink of water and would give you a snack center by the fridge.

I'd put countertops from the fridge to the other wall (by the dining room) with microwave over or under the countertop, with a prep sink in the corner. Just my two cents :)

Yes, I too like rhome's version. It centers the fridge on that wall and gives room for a pantry.

Now - where goes the seating? overhang on the fridge wall w/stools? or table-ish end at the eating area side? How much space do I need for seating? Most of the pics I like show overhang on the fridge side - but not all the pics show what lies behind. I lean towards the fridge side then. However, that walkway is the main entrance (for us) into the house. When (if) I'm entertaining, I don't necessarily see that as a walkway. Not exactly inviting people in to the laundry room for a glass of wine. Granted a designer buddy highly dislikes the idea of seating there in a walkway.

I will go with an induction range, so no second oven just a speed cook MW. Thank you cheri about the Viking info. The whole designing process has always had me not even looking at a Viking because of horrid reviews in the past, might as well just stay away.

Thanks L_L, however that fridge wall needs a pantry and a MW. And it is only 10 feet, so not a bunch of space for everything. As wonderful as your idea sounds, I don't think it would fit.

Credit:
Dang-kitchen is from Margie B (first pic) and was in atticmag. Here is the fridge wall pic to that layout.

Option #6: just the island piece, not the layout of the appliances. This island may be wider than my spacing allows. But I like the stools and the larger legs (or legs like #7).

Option #7 - table end. How large does this space need to be? 24-inches? 36? I'd want three stools to fit.

I think I like #6 best, but don't know about seating on that walkway still in my kitchen.

I thought you had assured us in previous discussions that with the numbers you need to seat, with the limited through-traffic, and when and how the seating is used, that having seating on the side would work for you. I think that with the design you have, with seating at both side and end, it could probably work, because it's a little more flexible than with seating only on the side. However, if you're concerned, I think option 7 is an excellent alternative, and probably what I'd opt for in this layout, as the stools get way under and out of the way when not in use, and when in use, would not be directly in the way of accessing the oven and fridge. Probably the safest bet if you can be happy with that island style.

rhome, I'm betting you are ready to strangle me! I feel like the scarecrow in WofO...if I only had a brain....

Just had an ah-ha (aka oh-cr4p) moment. This is what I get for playing around with graph paper and I know someone chimed in at some point. On all my plans I was drawing a 36-inch wide island, not the 30-inch space that I have. This meant 24-inch cab + 12-inch overhang = 30. Well, you got the 1-1.5 inch overhang standard, plus 24-inch deep and the seating overhang is not 30....and doh...I only have room for a 30-inch island. So here I was looking at pictures like option #6 and thinking to myself I totally have room for that. No, not so much. So option #7 looks to be a better fit possibly even #2 or a melding of #2 & #7. What would you think the dimensions are of that area with the stools? I would get saddle stools which are about 18x9 across the seat. Would a 24x30 inch area work - then two 24 inch cabs? So a total island of 72-inches long and 30-inches wide.

I've set up stools at the island now and walking behind isn't a big deal - no squeezing or cramped feeling and there is 39-inches. The walkway is a main thoroughfare in the kitchen...but I do have access to the back yard via two sliders,plus the front door. If I'm entertaining or the kids are baking with me, I'm not getting traffic in that walkway. I would think if someone is at the island you can walk around (why I like the island - you can't walk around the peninsula).

One option would be to have the 30" island with cabinets that are only 18" deep. Don't know if this would work with your storage plans or not as you haven't illustrated yet what cabinet configuration you are hoping to put in the island. You should probably be paying a little more attention to that at this point. It's not just the layout, but the details that make or break a kitchen design, IMO.

We had a table of sorts that stuck out into our kitchen from the wall. It sat only two people because of the big legs on it. Had the legs been smaller, it would have been fine for three people. It was about 40" long and 32 or 34" wide. My twins literally lived at this table until they were in high school. Friends hung at it too and it was a great landing for buffets and entertaining. I think option #7 would work quite well and you have the space to make the island a bit longer, too. (Note the doors. One is to the back stairs and the other to the basement. It was tight, certainly not ideal, but it worked well for us for 15 years).

Our current peninsula seating has closed ends and I find that it's a tight squeeze for two people getting on and off stools because of this. I did it for aesthetics but it's something I would change if I could do it over. The space is 54" and should be wide enough for seating for two, but those closed ends make it tight. We had to get uncomfortably small stools to compensate.

right on cheri...I do have a penciled in drawing of my cabinet configuration. The island would have two cabinets - and yes the 18-inch deep may be what I go with. Trying to fine tune those details as well - before I post those. I have room for the things I want/need. Now I'm playing with drawers/cab doors. And the fridge wall. Love your kitchen! Thanks for the tip on the panel near seating and squeezing in.

If you can deal with 39" on the non seating side of your island, you can eek it a little wider. Just have to think where you'll notice and appreciate those few inches the most. It can be different for different people.

don't know why this view still doesn't have countertops...but you get the idea of placement

I have the more detailed each wall layout...but I felt this showed things better to some extent.

Thanks. I like the island with the seating at the end. What happened to your pantry?

Some cabinet ideas. A 30" or 36" drawer base in the island closest to the range would do a very nice job of holding your pots and pans. Or do you plan a pot rack over the island? Is that a trash pullout next to the lazy susan? If so, it may be cumbersome for others to use while you're working. In the island, next to the seating area would be an ideal place for it; close to prep and DW, easily accessible to everyone without crossing zones. Have you considered having your angled corner wall cabinet fitted with spinning shelves like a super susan? Otherwise, it's impossible to reach anything that's not stored at the front of the cabinet. We didn't have any base cabs in our last kitchen or this one and we didn't miss them. Drawers only. We have cabs with ROTS at the beach and I hate them!

Thanks Cheri! Pantry got lost in the budget battle. Now have a pantry in the closet pantry in the kitchen. Our last house had ROTS that I miss. I'll change the island config to have two sets of three drawers and a cab door in the middle.

My pots/pans are going in the super susan. Yes, trash pullout next to susan. I have a can that i can put somewhere too. Hadn't thoughts about spinning shelves, but the things in there aren't accessed too often.

Here are the latest island plans. 33-inch island. 18-21 inch cabs, with 12 inch overhang for seating.

The 3D view is really helpful for truly seeing it. I like it and I think you are making the best of the space you've got. The question is, do you like it?

yes I like. Very very similiar to the current layout, but much more user friendly. I hope ;-)

Thanks for all the input!

Now to order and begin demo. Ugh.

Cosmocat - how long is your island? Is this your final plan? I like it. What cabinetry brand, stain, and floor are you going with? I've been getting cabinet prices for my same layout that are all over the place in terms of cost and quality, so I would be interested to see your choices. Good luck with your construction.

Did you give up the idea of overhang on the dinette end?

Walnut cabs, hickory floor, soapstone countertop. Found a local cab company - not custom but price is right.

Dilly I've been debating this kitchen for 3 years but always got stuck on the layout. The 'elements' were the easy part. Ha. Back and forth on every decision.

Yes,rhome, don't have the dinette end overhang. Didn't want an eight foot long island. Could take one cab out and still have a chair there. More of an option #5 than #6.

Rhome would it look better or feel better with a chair on the eating area side? Less busy on the fridge side? As it is now there is a panel extending to the floor and one furniture leg.

I know I'm nagging, but after all the bllood, sweat and tears you put into this layout I have to bring it up again because I think it's a huge mistake. The trash pullout belongs in the island, especially if you'll be prepping there. Where it is now is only convenient to the sink, not the prep zone and certainly not to anyone coming into the kitchen to throw something away. I know this because I don't have one near the prep space in my kitchen at home or the beach and I find it terribly dysfunctional. And I can guarantee you won't want a freestanding bin in your gorgeous new kitchen. Just my two cents. I'll leave you alone now. :)

No don't go away...I need all the help, hand holding and support I can get - especially from those who've been there. I've never done this but what I have done is second guess decisions constantly. I do feel so much more confident with input from all you 'pros' or at least experienced decision makers. Right now I have drawers then a cab then more drawers, so trash would be in the middle. Should I make it two drawer stacks then the trash on the end?

Do I need an open end on the eating area side?

I would want the trash pullout in the island, too...At the stove end, but facing the sink...So you can reach it from both sides, and just sweep prep scraps right in. But I don't know if that solves the people coming into the kitchen issue that is concerning Cheri.

The overhang on the end is partly a style preference, as islands with only an overhang to one side (without solid ends) seem unbalanced to me. I didn't know you were set on a particular storage configuration for the island that would force it to become 8 ft if you added the seat at that end, so I could see not lengthening it. I do think that other than style, it would give the seating a little more flexibility for making it work best for you once it's in. Also can make for more conversational seating if everyone's not in a line.

I could see too how having a seat at the end might space out kiddos helping to make cookies, so not everyone is working in the same space. Or for entertaining, might feel less like an audience.

Not really set on a storage configuration, but I like symmetry and if I had two drawer sets and one cabinet, then I wanted them spaced that way. If I go down to two cabinets it doesn't matter. Don't have to have the storage, but always nice to eek out more where I can.

With the island slightly wider than original thinking, I can see going with an option like #6 above - where the overhang makes a backward 'L'. Not the table end like #7, more like #5. I like #6 best anyways. But that looks much wider. The seating at the end doesn't seem to 'share' legroom with the seat to the right? So the overhang might be the same on both of those sides? I'd probably unbalance it by keeping the side by the range an end panel. No one could really tell either unless they were right there. I'd have three legs then too.

hmmm...thanks for the input...getting closer. I can feel it.

What if the trash pull was to the left of the DW? And the bank of drawers currently there to the right of the sink? Think the spacing is a bit different tho - the drawers on the right aren't as wide as the ones on the left. That way easier access to eating area, cleaning off plates as they enter the DW, and closer to island prep. Most of the trash is recyclable, and my current prep is to the left of the sink. Granted with a usuable island more veggie prep may be done there. hmmmm...I'll mull it over tonight while I sleep. Just as long as I don't have another nasty kitchen nightmare like last night. Awful. Woke me up and had me sitting up in bed. Granted, now of course I can't remember the problem?

A giant 'no' from me on putting the trash to the left of the dishwasher. How would you reach it while scraping plates and loading the dishwasher? I would use those cabinets to the left of the dw for dish storage drawers.

Symmetry...An Ok thing for looks in certain areas, and if it's functionally best, but you won't be viewing that side of the island from anywhere. You'll be so close to it, and busy, when in that aisle, so how it works for you is what will matter in how you configure it. Take this from a person who designed her island based on an inspiration photo. I was thinking I had so much storage elsewhere, I could choose the cabinet size and configuration on looks there. But I've changed it completely, because I want it to WORK for me. I have replaced the drawer/door cabinets with drawers, and filled in under part of the overhang.

I would also leave the panel and leg on the stove end, and do the 3 legs on the island. It will have asymmetrical balance.

Cosmocat - Here is a link to my latest layout draft. Don't have this island pic yet. I am going to change one of the beverage center base cabinets to a door base. Also, MW cabinet needs to have pullout on bottom.

Here is a link that might be useful: Draft Layout

wow...dilly...freaky how similar. Can�t find the cab drawings that give that detail for me. Seems you have just a tad more room.

Ah-ha! Asymmetrical balance. Works for me.

Moving trash to island. Not sure what the trash cab where it was becomes. Maybe a bank of drawers.

Oh dear! Sorry for the miscommunication, Cosmo. I certainly didn't mean I wouldn't come back!!! I meant I wouldn't nag you anymore about your trash pullout. (Though it looks like I don't have to, hahaha).

Cosmocat - Your dimensions are very similar to mine! Love the new layout with island. Can I ask if the 24' includes the table to the left of the kitchen, and does the 11'8" include to the frig wall? What is the dimension from the counter wall to the end of the range cupboard? How much room do you have between island and frig wall and island and counter wall? Many thanks!!!

sorry for the delay...gardenamy, the layout dimensions are near the top of this post. The 24' is from the Family Room Wall to the laundry room wall (then 8.5 feet of LR). The 11'4" is from the DR wall to the cabinet run (sink run) wall. Behind the fridge adds 28", so from behind the fridge to behind the sink is 13'8". The current aisle widths are 39" from the DR wall to the island, 27" island, 45" aisle, 25" cab. (these measurements are shown in the eating area of the pic above). Hope that helps! Previous posts (if you search for cosmocat you'll see other posts that have some other drawings.)

just added a new post, addressing the pantry wall - with the new option of moving slightly into the garage. Finally got approval that won't break the bank!

Here is a link that might be useful: New Post: pantry wall layout