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Evening Dress - Part 2

Posted by laurie_2008 (My Page) on
Sat, Oct 24, 09 at 18:56

This is a continuation of my original post titled "Evening Dress - for wedding"

Here are the pictures of my first attempt of a practice dress (muslin) using Vogue pattern V8188 in size 18. It is currently all hand basted & I'm wearing it inside out. I did not do any stay stitching, no clipping curves at top of darts, no lining, & I made the shorter version (not full length to floor). I'm wearing a spanx beige slip. The pattern calls for a 14" zipper. The back zipper opening is pinned 5/8" all the way. I have adjusted the V-neck in the front and the back by raising them both 3". When the lining gets added, the armholes will look/fit better assuming I use a 5/8" seam allowance there.
Looking forward to getting your feedback on where I should make adjustments. Thanks!!

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"The hug" - arms wrapped in front.
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Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie,
Lets Tweak this a little at a time.
Shoulders, try basting a 5/8" seam
This will gently pull up on front and a bit the back

Look at dress in mirror and see if center back seam is lifting a bit before doing this.

Armholes: After doing the shoulder at 5/8 it may lift the hole a little, they may need adjusted almost like the neckline by tracing and adding piece of paper.

Myrna do you think that the top of armhole is hanging over too much where shoulder meets top of the arm??

If you would use them this way the arm hole would actually be larger and lower when doing final sewing.

Noticed it is a little too large past the hips.
Since this is a practice mark areas with a pencil or marker.

Your doing fine. Back not bad at all.
LOL love the hug.
Will try and get back after company leaves...


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie,

I've been following your posts with great interest, and a lot of admiration for your carefull and patient research. Personally, I haven't sewn any clothing for myself in years, and just wanted to tell you how great a job I think you're doing so far! I was always too impatient for the finished product to take the time and effort you have to make your garment "perfect".

Although now I do tons of decorative sewing for myself and family members - I make home items like duvet covers, curtains, quilts and baby items for the grandchildren. I'm sure your gown and jacket will be stunning when you're finished, especially with all the great guidance and tips you're getting from other GW sewing members. The only other advice I can add so far that no one else has mentioned is to remember to sit down in your sample work to make sure that it's comfortable and not too confining. So far, I think you're doing everything just right, with great patience and attention to detail. I can't wait to see the finished gown!


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

nanny2a. Yes Laurie is to be given full marks for patience and stick-to-it attitude. She will deserve a wonderful final product.

Yes Pattie I do think the shoulder is hanging over a bit too much at the back where the darts are. I'm not sure about the top of the arm it may be fine be fine once the lining was added. I'm not sure if the shoulders should have the full seam allowance, I know it should under the arms. It gapes there. There's only one way to tell and that's to try it out. You are right though with the shoulder seam like it is it does lower the armhole.

Laurie: Try putting a pin where you want the finished shoulder on top, to be and see how much seam allowance that leaves. Could you also do the same at the front and back darts on the armhole. How does the waist feel? The back fits good. You do need to take some out of the hips though. Try Pinning and taking in where you think you need it while you have the dress on inside out. Don't touch the back.


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to clarify

That should have been --put a pin on the shoulder at the armhole where you want the finished armhole to be. This is to check if the armhole hangs over too much at the top.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

nanny2a - Thanks for joining in and for your kind words! Your advise on sitting down in the dress to make sure it's comfortable is so practical! I will add it along with the "hug test" as a must before making final adjustments.

Update- I basted the shoulder seams to be 5/8" and I turned under the armhole edges and basted them 5/8" as well. In the pictures you may be able to see some portion of my spanx slip at the lower armholes because the slip material comes up way too far under my arms. The slip is a little darker than the muslin. The final dress will be lined and I will not wear this particular slip. This time I am wearing the dress right side out.

These first 3 pictures show the dress with the changes I mentioned above
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These next 3 pictures have pins below the bust area and also under the arms to take up a little slack. I left the back alone.
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Waistband for See&Sew Skirt

I made the waist a total of 4" larger on the size 16 See&Sew skirt pattern using the pivot method. I increased each side seam by 1" instead of 1-7/8" like last time. The new side seam transitions better to the hip. For the waistband pattern, I extended it by 2" on each end for a total increase of 4".
I extended the center back marks by 2 " on each side. Did I do that correctly? Any other marks I need to extend or modify?

One end
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The other end
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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie:

Everything sounds good for the skirt. Just measure the pattern at the hips and see if too much was added and wait until Pattie weighs in with her opinion.

The dress fits pretty good with the changes you made, and I like it on you. I read once that the best way to disguise a thicker waist--my bugaboo too-- is with a straight sheeth or something that hangs loose to the hips. Both your choices do this.

Are you comfortable with the armhole. It fits good under the arm now, but there is a wierd little bumpout above the dart at the back. That may just be because it's folded back and not clipped. I think though that Pattie was right and the shoulder armhole should come in a bit, That will give you a little more armhole room. Did you take off the excess in the hips? It still looks a bit big there, but I may be mistaken and it's just because it's unfinished. Only you can tell how it fits. You want it loose enough to line and move up and down with you as you move, but no more than that.

Wait until Pattie gives her opinion--2 heads are better than 1


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Myrna - I don't know exactly where the hips are located on the skirt pattern. Did you mean I should use my own measurement that I took where my hips were 2" below my waist?
Should I measure 2" below the top of the pattern?

I agree with you on disguising a large waist. I rather wear something a little on the loose side as opposed to tight.

I am comfortable with the armhole. I used long basting stitches, no clipping or trimming anywhere. I think that's why there are some bumps and stuff. I did not take any excess off at the hips.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie:

Yes use your own measurements although 2 inches seems a little high, but if you measured right then that's where the widest part should be. Don't for get to allow for lining and ease of movement.

If you take the excess off at the hips on the dress then I think you have a good fitting dress--one you may want to make again.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Agree your doing very well, At A Girl!!

Skirt: Agree with Myrna should work.

Dress:
Armhole, top of shoulder from contoured dart front to back might remove an 1/8 to 1/4 inch, agree would add a little to opening. Still think Underarm should be raised 1/4 to 3/8 inch.(Try on a Bra you maybe wearing).

Side seams Underarm release 1/4" this may releas the pull at bust line. Or a bit less on the bust area of the dart.

Zipper should be at least 18" long.

Darts? Myrna do you think they are too long from waist to hip area in front and back? In the back they should be about the length of the zipper.

Hips, have a little excess need tweaking a bit, but you do need wearing ease.

Think we are all headed toward the same goals getting a good fit, but not tight, tight fitting, makes the garment look cheap and home made..


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

I measured the skirt pattern including the increased waist. In my measurement totals, I did not include seam allowances.

2" below the top waist measures 46-5/8".

The other area I measured is the line on the pattern called "lengthen or shorten here". I used this line when I made the waist adjustment. When I adjusted the waist, I slid the patttern to the 1" mark. Then, I pivoted the pattern back to the original side seam stopping at the point where this lengthen/shorten line met up with the original side seam. Then, I drew the new side seam line.

The total measurement along this shorten/lengthen line is
now 48-1/8".

The dress pattern calls for a 14" zipper. I raised the v neck in front & back by 3", so I raised the zipper opening by 3". Do you think the zipper needs to be longer? I can get in and out of this dress with no problems whatsoever.

Would you like me to stitch this practice dress on my machine after making the adjustments you mentioned?


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Pattie:

I never noticed the bust as being too tight in the straight on photo, but it might be. When I had a second look though I didn't like the wrinkles from bust to waist on the side. It looks like the side should be raised a bit. I think it could be done by widening the dart on the bottom at the seam line. I went back and looked at the pattern with the darts and if Laurie went to the bottom line on the dart armhole seam it would raise the side 1/4 inch and she wouldn't have to take so much out on the side seam under the armhole, so it would give her more room in the bust. What do you think?

I'm dithering about the darts being too long. If you look at the back view, Laurie has pinned it for a 14" zipper and if it were 16" it would come about the bottom of the darts, so I'm just not sure. Anyway I would like to see the hips taken in a bit first. When that fits then we will know about the darts.

Laurie:

Pattie's right about wearing the bra you will be wearing for fittings. Wearing the right bra can make all the difference in the world about how a garment fits.

As for the skirt--48 seems a bit big. Let me think for a while. Maybe Pattie has an idea.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Keep all stitches at basting until you get the fit you need on all the garments.
Dress, the 14" zipper was designed for a 3" shorter back, the zipper is not only used for putting on the dress it also adds stability to the back seam. It is up to you about the length but I would do at least an 18".

Skirt, I would probably go with the increase at waist taper amount needed to into the hipline area, by pinning or basting.

Laurie How Tall are You?


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

LOL think we all must be answering at same time.
Skirt: Reread the post, skirt sounds large..
Getting a little lost, The finished pattern measurement on the skirt thought it was 43"? (40" being actual hip size of pattern size.)


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie:
I don't think the pivot method is working for you on the skirt. Increasing the waist also increases the hips. Now would be the time to slash and spread, but since you don't want to do that---

See if this works. Since we know the 20 fits perfectly in the waist. Using the back, lay the 20 0n top of the 16 and mark the waist cutting line and down the side to the sewing line. Put a dot, where your widest part should be 2" below the waist sewing line--- Measure 11 3/4--43 divided by 2= 21.5 divided by 2 for 1/2 of the the pattern +2- 5/8 seam allowance= 11 3/4--check my math.


Using the 16 pattern, pivot the pattern down to that dot and and draw the curve from the waist to the dot. Then pivot from that dot, back to the pattern on the 16. Soften and blend both points keeping a gentle curve for the hips, and see how that works.


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more

You may have to move the pattern curve up to get a smooth transition. Put the widest part of the pattern on the dot. Your widest part won;t only be on the dot but will transition down for a few inches.


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Me again

I forgot to add in the darts too. What you are going for is a 43 finished hip, so you do the math for me


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Myrna,
Wondering if she should just omit the darts as you said in the beginning. Maybe mark the darts run ease stitch over them, that would give Laurie the extra inches and not present as much of an issue..

At least the pattern would retain the curve from high hip to waist.

I know that we would have used a combination of alterations if we were doing them, trying to keep it simple is hard.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Sorry I added this Vogue dress in the mix, makes it confusing going back & forth, but I do like this new dress and I could not help myself! My hope is to have both dress samples ready by the end of this week. I would like to let my daughter pick which one she thinks looks best.

You guys are like my personal online tailors. I can't thank you enough!

In my last post, I said the total measurements did not include seam allowances. I should have been more specific about that. From those totals I gave you, you still need to subtract the seams/darts from that total.

Did you notice the last 3 photos had pins placed under the bust area and under the arms. I put a caption above those pics, but maybe you didn't see it.

I was wearing a bra under the slip. The same one I'll wear under the finished dress. It doesn't come up too close to my underarm.

I'm 5'6-1/2" tall.

I will continue to baste until everything looks right.

Maybe I should make the darts smaller or omit them all together. I'll think some more about that.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Hi Laurie,
We will try and get you set up to show your daughter..
Think you can email me through (my page) have not tried that here yet..
Skirt, Subtract the darts and seams see what you come up with.

Dress, if you are comfortable with the depth of armhole leave it alone.
I saw the pins, just wanted to make sure you paid attention to the area..

LOL the reason I ask how tall you were, when you said the 14" zipper would work.. Thought you may be my height 5'2".


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Yes Pattie I can see omitting the darts on the skirt but then don't forget the side front and front make up the 4th dart so that would have to be adjusted too.

Laurie: something you might like to keep an eye out for is a french curve ruler. It would make it easier to alter the hip curve on future projects.

I agree the dress is pretty good and yes we will try and have you ready for your daughter to pick. I think Pattie and I were doing a little nit picking wanting things to be perfect. I didn't see what you wrote above the pictures so the pins could account for small puckering. All in all it looks good


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, ROFL, I confess want it to come out perfect...
You did a great job!!!!

Myrna, after she subtracts the increases from pivot and slide, she may be able you use the that size that would allow for whole darts.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

I took a break from sewing today. Was up until 1am last night and felt lazy all day. Tomorrow, I will experiment by cutting out the 16 skirt and basting it. The last sentence of my last post is: " Maybe I should make the darts smaller or omit them all together". I was referring to the skirt on that. I can baste the darts the same as the pattern calls for and see how that fits before adding the waistband. I can make them smaller as needed before the waistband gets put on. Does that sound good?

Next time I'm at JoAnn's , I'll look for that French curve.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

No Pattie

I don't think she could ever use whole darts. It would simply narrow the waist too much. The pivot and slide simply isn't working for her. With that much extra at the hips she will be doing a lot of taking in. I know it is the way you are supposed to increase for the waist, but supposed to and reality are 2 different things.

Laurie:

If you want to go that way OK.

Personally I think you will have a lot of excess at the hips if it's 48 there.

I go back to my first suggestion. Cut straight up from the hips and make 1/4 inch darts. Pivot and slide 15 and 14 so the waist is 1/4 inch smaller than the hips--where they will be sewn together in place of a dart. You will only have small fractions of an inch to take in the side seams.

Adjusting the side seams and maybe darts will be much easier than trying to adjust the hips the way you have them now.

Then try it on without the waist band and make your adjustments, where needed. I really think this is the best choice for you, with the least alterations


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OK I've rethought this--ignore the above

If the finished hip is 43" and you cut straight up the waist will be 43". If you take 1/4 inch darts and sew 14 and 15 so it is only in 1/4" in from the hips, that would make it 41. Leaving 41-37 1/2=3 1/2 inches to take in, in 6 places--the 2 side seams and front and the 3 darts. Not too good.

How about this:

Take 1/2 inch darts. Pivot 14 abd 15 where they will be sewn together so the waist is 1/2 inch smaller than the hips. (Finished hip 43" -4" = 39)

Do the above and all pivots matching up the widest part of the hip on the pattern and just pivoting over from there to the waist. Leaving from the widest part of the hips down as is.

Now you have 2 1/2 inches left to meet your waist measurement. Again pivot on the side seams, from the widest part of the pattern at the hip so it is 1/2" in from the hip at the waist. Mark your new pattern only from that widest part of the hip to the waist, leaving everything below that as is. 4 x 1/2=2 This will give you a 1/2 inch to play with over all. You might find it easier if you drew a line straight up from the hip and then made the adjustments.

I really think this will work. It narrows for the waist without increasing for the hips


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie,
Try what ever your comfortable with.

Myrna, May Work we both know most of this is testing sort trial and error.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Myrna- I will go over your recent posts and try to figure out the numbers. You spent a lot of time analyzing this and I need to spend time to understand it. I really appreciate your input!

Patti- I sent you my email address through your "my page" on the Garden Web site. Maybe you can send me any pages from Nancy's other book that pertain to princess seams..or anything else that you think will be helpful.

Both of you are my new sewing teachers and I'm so thankful!!
I am going to do my 50 minute swim for exercise, now. When I get back, I will see about sewing (basting) this skirt.

Here is a picture of what the 1" waist extension looks like so far. The transition to the side seam looks a lot better than on my last attempt which was a 1-7/8" increase.

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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie should be home in about 2 hours, have not received anything yet.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Well Laurie-- All my figuring for naught.

That is almost what I was trying to tell you to do in my last post except I narrowed the darts some. Ignore the ones that went before that was all conjecture and figuring that the hip was 48, which is much too big. If the pattern says this one is 43 then that must be what the hip is because you do have the waist increase from the largest part of the hip---great.

Baste it as is and see how it fits. WHEW--we'll get there yet, I just have to stop conjecturing


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Myrna,
Your work was great.. It is always good to look at 2 or 3 ways of doing a project, all input is valuable.
Good Idea on the French Curve.

Going to practice an email on you, never sent one on this forum...


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, Have not gotten email have 6 Princess Style pages ready..


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Pattie: sending an e-mail from here is easy. Click on my name and my page comes up--click on send me an e-mail and an e-mail page comes up, then write it and send it


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Myrna Sent you one over an hour ago... Laurie does not have the email set up on her "My Page"
Want to send you pages also maybe you could use them for some project..
Will the message come directly to my email? That is what they do on other Forums. They do not have a box here to let you know you have a message or I have just not seen it..
Patti.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

I will try and send an email, again. The form came up and I wrote and clicked send, so I'm not sure what went wrong. That was my first time sending an email from someone's "My page" on the GW site.

The skirt fits!!! The top and skirt are very comfortable. Dh did a quick pin in the back of the top, so it's a bit crooked.
I am happy with the top and skirt : ) Tomorrow, I'll work some more on the Vogue dress.

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Laurie, Yippee!!!! I am so proud of you..

I got something but not sure if your email..going to send a short message, I left my email address open on my page Myrna got through to me, sent me a Hi message, will close my email address tomorrow..


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Great Laurie!! Now you just have to fit the jacket.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Looking good Laurie.....
Could you two "advisers" tell us folks who are reading all this how to correct your pattern once you have the muslin test garment made??????? Or how to proceed once the test garment is fitted.......Thanks.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

stillwelljill,
Laurie will tell you it is trial and error,
try and get the most adjustments made to your pattern, baste your muslin, record anything you want to adjust to transfer to pattern pieces for final cut. If your making something different, start a new post we will try and help you.. LOL Myrna volunteering you..


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie I sent a message on the one email hope it was yours??

It was yahoo.com.
If not yours never got a message..


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Volunteer away, Pattie


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Myrna, LOL okay my fitting partner. Laurie emailed me she got the information.
Time for me to turn in.. Will check in tomorrow.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

stillwelljill - Patti is right...trial & error. I have made so many practice pieces because I'm so new at this: 3 tops , 2 skirts and 1 dress. I am learning as I go. I made a couple basic changes right on the pattern pieces themselves. Like the length of the top, the width on the skirt waist, and the higher neckline on the Vogue dress. The other details (like what side seam allowance for the Vogue dress) I write down on a separate paper. I'll keep that paper of detailed notes in the packet with the pattern. That way, if I make it again in the future, I'll be able to refer to my notes. I am so grateful to Patti & Myrna & this wonderful GW forum. People here are so generous with their time and talent.
Do you have a specific project in mind that you would like to attempt?

Patti & Myrna - I cut out another practice Vogue dress (same as the last one, but floor length this time). I want to see what it looks like with the "lining" so that I can see the "true" neckline & armholes. I am going to use the first practice dress (the short one) as the "lining".

On the short dress I made a few changes to the front darts and the side seam portion under the arm holes. It fits a lot better, now. I am in the process of attaching the "lining" to the dress and will post a picture probably tomorrow (Thursday). I'll see if my dd can come and see which dress she likes best..sometime between Thursday & Sunday.

Yesterday, I received the symphony broadcloth (denim blue color) for the underlining. I was thinking to wash/dry & iron it because it feels a tiny tiny bit stiff compared to the white cotton batiste sample I have. Should I go ahead and wash it?

The China silk (lining) swatches should arrive tomorrow or Friday. I hope they have a blue that looks nice. I will post pics so you can give me your input.

I am so anxious to start sewing with the "real" fabric!

I'll eventually get around to making a practice jacket, but I want to get the dress done first.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

I would wash the cotton. It probably has a lot of sizing in it and that's what makes it stiff.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Underlining: Agree wash it, press it. Have used it several times when underlining and needing special color not available in batiste.

Dress: Good idea, on long practice dress, will define the neckline and armholes when adding lining.
Now the muslin may be a little different than actual fabric but will give you a good idea also on the length needed.

LOL I know that your really excited about doing the real fabric. Your almost there.. WooHoo!!!


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

OK, here are the final practice dress (Vogue) pictures. Dh pinned the back (where the zipper goes) about 5/8" all the way down. After taking the pictures, I noticed a gap in the right back neckline. On the last picture you can kind of see the gap. The sun is shining right on that gap so it's hard to see. Dh pinned the very top to 3/4" and the gap is gone. When I sew in the zipper, would it be ok to use a larger seam allowance (just at the top of the zipper) to keep this from gaping?

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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, You Rock!!!

Yes it would be fine to make that small of an adjustment there.

They both came out very well, looking forward to hearing what you and DD decide on..


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Looks lovely on you laurie--I like it, in fact they are both perfect mother of the bride outfits.

I agree with Pattie, make the adjustment.

I'll be waiting anxiously to find out which is the chosen one. I'll bet your daughter has a hard time deciding.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie,
Although I will be checking in daily, next week will be doing some charity sewing.

So i am giving you some sites or suggestions in advance, being a little proactive.

Underlining: Have posted site below with tips on doing underlining.

Zippers: If using preshrink by placing in warm water for 10 minutes, roll in towel hang to dry. Press. This removes package folds and prevents any shrinking on the cloth part of zipper when pressing.

Interfacing: If using Preshink same as zipper, DO NOT PRESS.
Have fashion fabric and underlining pressed before cutting.
(I often spray my underlining with spray starch then press.)
Press cloths can be as simple as left over underlining, press seams flat, *then putting strips of press cloths under seam before opening to prevent marks showing through fashion fabrics.
Someone suggested a pressing ham or roll for curves, good idea.
Myrna, Need you to check to see what I missed..

Here is a link that might be useful: Threads Magazine Underlining.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

I think you covered all the bases Pattie.

I second the use of a ham they are marvelous for pressing curves and even some other seams.

It would be a good thing to put on your Christmas list--it's just around the corner now.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Dd decided....the winning dress is the Sew & Sew two-piece skirt & top!!

The Vogue dress is nice, but we both feel it's a little loose in the middle. She thinks some sort of skinny belt is needed at the waist. I am thinking when I'm all done with the two-piece dress in the dupioni fabric, I will make a knee length version of the Vogue dress in some other type & color fabric for the rehersal dinner. I can use a skinny belt & cardigan to wear with it.

Only 2 of the 6 blue lining samples (ordered from a co. in NY) came in the mail and they're not right. The other samples are on back order and they may not be getting more.

Yesterday, I made a trip to a fabric store that has a lot of special fabrics. It's not a chain store like JoAnn's and the ladies there are very helpful. It's a lot farther for me to drive, but I had another errand in that area and I'm glad I went.

I brought the dupioni fabric with me so I could pick out lining. I just said I'm looking for lining and said nothing about what colors are in the wedding. The lady knew exactly which lining right away. She pulled it off the shelf, set it next to the blue dupioni and that was it! I love it! Shiny, soft and a nice shade of blue. Dd is having bridesmaids wear long black gowns, guys in black tux (or suits). Flowers: Light blue hydrenga (spelling?)&cream roses. Flower stems/handle wrapped in light blue velvet ribbon, with excess ribbon hanging down fron the boquets. So, there will be touches of light blue in the wedding & decor.

They also had a batiste (off white) for underlining that was so soft and I fell in love with it. She said the batiste will work well with my fabric, so I bought it. I think it matches the weight and feel of the dupioni better than the denim blue symphony broadcloth. Although, the broadcloth probably would work fine.

She also reminded me to make sure that I mark the "top" of the fabric. She said because it's irridescent, the look will be a little different depending on which way the fabric is oriented. She wants me to be sure to cut out all the pattern pieces the same way. She also mentioned to make sure I tack down the underlining along the center line as well as other areas to make sure it's smooth and doesn't have bubbles, etc. They also had nice silk coated cotton thread, which she helped pick out a blue color that goes well.

I need to attend to some details before I cut out the dupioni fabric.

1. I need to figure out for certain what the "nap" means.
I believe the grainline runs parallel to the selvages (spelling?). There are "lines"/texture (you'll see them in the pictures below) that run perpendicular to the selvages.

2. I think the nap (in this fabric) refers to the shine and/or color being slightly different when holding the fabric one way, as opposed to turning it upside down. I think the lady at the store said to hold it up with selvages on left & right sides, look for a minute, then turn over and see if there is one side you like better. I tried every angle and I don't see any difference. I think I'll have to just pick a "top" to the fabric and then stay consistant when placing the pattern pieces. It's funny, because in the pics below, every one of the dupioni depicts a different shade of blue.

3. I can't tell which side is the "right" and which is the "wrong" side. I asked the lady at the store and she said either side can be used. I'll just have to pick that as well.

4. I need to read and understand underlining. That link is very good. I also have some info about it in my library books. I need to better understand "turn of cloth" and it's relationship to the vertical seams.

5. I need to practice pressing the dupioni before cutting. Press cloth, no steam/water in iron.

Trick-or-treaters will be ringing the doorbell here in a couple hours. I will try and get some progress done tomorrow.

Dupioni on left, lining on right
Photobucket

Photobucket

Lines in fabric perpendicular to selvage
Photobucket

Fabric hanging from upper stair railing
Photobucket


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Oh yes Laurie I like that lining.

You know sometimes it pays to go to independant fabric shops. Just like going to a nursery for plants, the expertise is worth paying the extra for.

Nap refers to suedes or corduroy and like material, which you have to cut all the same way--The top--neck shoulder and waist goes the same way on the pattern. If it's not cut this way there is a difference in color.

It would be the way with your silk, because it changes colors if it's reversed. This is not important if you are sewing with material like cotton, and you can reverse the pieces. The pattern usually has a nap and no nap cutting layout.

If you make sure the tops of every piece is facing the same way you will be ok. Before you take your pattern off, make a stitch at the top seam allowance somewhere and tie the threads in a knot on either the right or wrong side. Then you will know by just looking at the thread which is the wrong or right side.

Yes the grain line runs parallel to the selvidges.

Don't forget to add to the seam lines for fraying, as Pattie suggested

OK Pattie-- your turn to add your 2 cents. Did I miss anything or do you have more to add


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, Really like the lining, very elegant looking..

1) Yes grain line runs parallel to selvage. They maybe called perpendicular, always thought slub lines were horizontal.
2) Nap yes it is the sheen of the fabric that should be cut with nap meaning one direction. (just choose direction that you want to use for the top and I have used a safety pin with opening end for top in the selvage.)
3)The Right Side has more raised slub horizontal lines, the wrong side is actually smoother.
4) Read both your books and the above article on underlining.
5) Pressing, I put a big beach towel on ironing board, press on wrong side of fabric use pressing cloth.

Myrna is right about adding extra in seam allowance for fraying and other suggestions.

Happy Halloween to all, ours is over had 140 of the little darlings.....


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

How smart of you, Pattie:

Using a safety pin is much easier than stitching to mark right from wrong.

We only had 18 kids this year. Usually we get about 30. I think H1N1 has something to do with it. Years ago when there were a lot of young kids around we got around 200 but now our neck of the woods has a lot of retired folks.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Excellent tips and suggestions from you ladies, as always : )

I read through my books and underlining is not explained very well. The article Patti posted is better and more detailed.

Still need clarification on underlining.

In the article, it says to cut the underlining (in my case the cotton batiste)& the fashion fabric from the same pattern piece., trim the underlining along the marked hem line. Pin the underlining to the fashion fabric down center only along the straight grainline. Then to adjust for turn of cloth, place hand over pins, fold fabric overhand (underlining's overlap shows amount of adjustment needed for turn of cloth), average turn of cloth will be 1/8 to 1/4". I understand up to this point.

This next step is unclear to me: "Pin fabric & underlining NEAR ADJUSTED EDGES, & baste. My question: When I see that the underlining will be let's say 1/4" wider than the fashion fabric...do I trim off 1/4" from the underlining, then PIN THE EDGES OF BOTH FABRICS AT THEIR NOW EVEN ALIGNED EDGES? If I do this then baste all around all the edges , the two fabric pieces will not lay flat.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Myrna, LOL not that smart some methods are just old techniques of using what is on hand..
Laurie,
Pressing the dupioni and the underlining helps to not only smooth out wrinkles but also actually preshinks the fabric before cutting.

Cutting Pattern: Place straight pins in the seam allowance to hold pattern in place, I have weights for the center but have used heavy glasses from China Closet when at DD.

DO NOT leave straight pins in dupioni for any period of time, not matter what you pay for them they can oxidize (rust). (Learn from my bad experience.)

Refer to books on attaching (mounting) the underlining to the dupioni, eg might say for skirt machine baste from hem up one side across waist down to hem.
I usually hand sew long basting stitches from center of pattern piece from top to bottom to hold fabric and undelining together and leave them in until item is assembled.

Trying to stay a step a head.

Patti


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2 message

Sent you an email message would not go through. Going to try and repost it maybe helping others.
keeps rejecting message????????????
Laurie, Thought I would be a step ahead darn..
Underlining, Just do the like I said above go baste up one side seam, start new seam go across waist, start new seam down other side seam, DO NOT Do Bottom..
If the underlining seams a little large leave it until it lays flat before trimming.
Sorry did not see your other post, if you need me quickly email me directly.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

The selvage on the lining fabric has the words "Ambiance for Logantex" printed on one side. Would this side of the fabric be the "right" side?


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

To tell the truth, Laurie, I have never paid much attention to which side those things are printed. I think it might be on the right side, but don't take it to the bank.

The most important thing with the lining, as with the dress is to use the same side on all the pieces as the right side. Also to cut all pieces the same way "with nap" With the lining, if you can't see which is the right or wrong side, try both sides against your dress fabric.

Drape your silk over a chair the way it will be when you wear it. Since the lining has a sheen too and will change color when it is reversed. Reverse it and try both sides that way. Which looks best with the fabric?

That's my take on it but wait and see what Pattie has to say, too


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, in most cases it is the trade marked right side of the fabric selvage.

Agree with all Myrna's great tips:
Select the direction and side to use lining fabric.
Cut all pattern pieces in one direction.
Cut "With Nap".

Inhale!!! Exhale!!! Go for it!!!!


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

I'm feeling some anxiety. Starting out with the batiste. Have not done anything with the Dupioni or lining, yet.

Pressed the batiste, pinned top pattern pieces and one skirt piece in place. Used my clear ruler & ink pen to mark dots 3/8" out from all edges, then connect the dots. This worked out ok for the skirt piece, but is not working so well on the top pieces.

The top pieces (4 of them) have several small short & pointed/angular cut lines. It is frustrating for me to try and increase each edge to 3/8" evenly, consistantly, keeping the angles, correct. Hard for me to explain. Then, I keep thinking...I have to do this 2 more times with the other fabrics! The Dupioni will be more difficult to place the dots & draw the lines because the fabric is darker. I have a white soapstone pencil thing, but the point is not as precise as a pen and I think it will be generally more difficult.

I'm really considering just cutting along the pattern lines as is and using the 5/8" seam allowance. Am I making a huge mistake by not increasing the cutting lines outward so I can use a 1"seam allowance?


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Oh Laurie:

Our fault, we should have told you this before. Get yourself some tailors chalk--they sell it at fabric stores-- and draw the cutting line on in dashes. They don't have to be too close together. Just so you can cut from dash to dash on the straight or practicly straight lines. Mark in any curves and corners with shorter lines. This will work on the silk and lining. For the white batist you could use a fine lead pencil and a light touch. Just enough so you can see the lines.

If you did use just 5/8 seam and it frayed you would have nothing to use to finish the seams. Myrna


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Dh is hiking in the local mountains today & took the camera with him. Wish I could post pics of the top pattern pieces.
It's hard to explain in words how there are many angles & curves.

When you say "draw the cutting lines" you mean 3/8" out from the pattern's actual cutting line, correct?

If I am correct, this is the hard part for me. Even if I have the right kind of chalk, or whatever, the 4 top pattern pieces are "complex" with curves, angles, and sharp turns. Wish my camera was here and I could show you what I mean. The curves take time, but I can do it. The little 90 degree angles next to the 45 degree angles are where it gets tricky.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Lsurie:
Use a 12 inch ruler--I don't know how yours is but mine has a small space on the end so if I put it on the 1/4 inch it will be just a hair over 3/8. If you use the same measurement for everything it won't matter. You are just cutting it bigger for fraying and 1 inch was just an estimate.

Put the 1/4 inch on the line and mark at the short end of the ruler. When you get near those angles, go to the angles and measure there and then join the lines where they would intersect. Got another angle don't quite finish the first one, go to the next one and measure then join them. If you have a straight angle use the drawing edge to join the lines a curved edge just draw the dashes.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, No pens.. unless they are marking pens not ink..I have use a fine pencil, No wire hangers, okay not funny..

Top look at the Pivot and Slide princess style sheets, you can just trace the outline on the of pattern piece, mark the 3/8" increase add this will keep it on grain..
Hope that makes sense..
Correct on the 3/8" The only seams will be added to is the shoulders(1)front, pieces over bust side seams(2).
back side seams(5) Shoulders (4)
See if I got your pattern piece numbers right on you pattern I opened the old post.
As Myrna Stated also.
1" seams: The only reason I suggest the 1" seams is that silk frays you can always trim off but if frays to close to seamline, could be a nightmare. It is important on fitted and semifitted garments.

Be back darn my DH wants dinner. LOL


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie:

If you get the underlining cut right then you could lay it with the pattern still attached on your silk and use that as your pattern. That way both pieces would be the same and it wouldn't take as much measuring and such. You would just have to make sure everything was smooth and on grain.

Pattie is right. We are all apprehensive when doing something we have never done before, especially when we are doing something that matters. You've had good preparation, so just use your common sense and look and think before you do something and you will be OK. Pattie and I are only an e-mail away.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie,
As Mynra told you the underlinings are your new pattern pieces, for dupioni and lining.
LOL yes I still gasp when cutting the first piece too..
If your more comfortable with skirt do it first lines are straigter it will give you a feel for handling the fabric.
Yippee your almost there, Go For It!!!


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

I like the idea of using the cut out underlining pieces as my pattern for the dupioni & lining.

I also like the idea of moving the pattern piece 3/8" to trace the new cutting line on the batiste.

I think I will just start with the skirt since it's less complex compared with the top.

Still not sure on which edges should be 1" seams and which stay 5/8". Even if I eventually learn which should and which should not, I'm worried that I'll be confused at sewing time. Maybe I'll sew a 5/8" seam where I was supposed to sew a 1" or vice versa.

Don't give up on me...I'll get it eventually! I am sure lucky to have you two helping me!

I need to fix dinner, now. Maybe tomorrow I will feel refreshed and my mind will be clearer.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, We are hanging in here with you....
Take a break, you have been really giving this project your all, So Proud of you!!! Big Hugs, Patti


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie:

If you are unsure which cutting line is to have a 1 inch seam just think of how it is sewn together. If it has a seam you cut it with a 1 inch seam. On the skirt that would mean all pieces on the sides and waist unless there is one cut on the fold. Cut it longer if you need it for the hem.

As for forgetting and sewing a 5/8 inch seam that is easily solved with chalk. Mark the 1 inch seam at the top of each piece before you sit down to sew. When you pick it up to sew you will see the mark and it will remind you.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

I haven't been involved in this project but I've been reading; I congratulate Laurie, especially, but also Myrna and Pattie. You are all amazing.

If you don't mind my 2 cents...what do you think about testing the actual garment silk for fraying? Cut off a small chunk and play with it, wrinkle it, pick the edges. Since the changes have already been taken care of in the muslins, the silk won't need much more than ordinary handling during construction, so may not fray at all. I have used dupioni many, many times and have not had any trouble with fraying.

I wish I could post a picture of the bag of silk scraps I have...all dupioni, in many different colors, that has been banging around and pawed through in my sewing room for years. None of it is frayed. It would be worth a try, in my opinion, to check the actual silk of Laurie's dress for fraying. Cutting would be so much easier for her if she could use the pattern. Anyway, it's just a thought.

Sherry


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Sherry:

That might be a point. Never having sewn with it myself I don't know but it may be worth a try. It certainly would be easier for Laurie.

I bow to Pattie on this because she has made a lot of evening wear, while I just have a good knowledge of sewing in general.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Sherry, Great tip about checking for fraying. All input is welcome.

Laurie When you check for fraying you have you have to check the straight of grain and across grain.

Usually on dupioni or shantung real silks they recommend the larger seams to prevent any mishaps of the fraying (it can fray from a 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch), you can always remove or neaten excess in the seam allowance but not add it back in..

After the underlining is mounted or attached it will stop most of the fraying.

Since Laurie has not sewn with this before it may take a little longer but it is a preventative measure.

Patti


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

It would be much easier to use the cutting lines as they are, then stay stitch all the cut edges of the silk if it really does fray. I think there would be less room for error that way.

"Still not sure on which edges should be 1" seams and which stay 5/8". Even if I eventually learn which should and which should not, I'm worried that I'll be confused at sewing time. Maybe I'll sew a 5/8" seam where I was supposed to sew a 1" or vice versa." That would worry me, too, Laurie. I think you should make all seam allowances one size and forget trying to mark and remember what seam allowance goes where.

It's smart to make the less complicated skirt first to learn how the silk handles.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie
Whatever works best for you, after working with the silk dupioni on over a few hundred items and many years the only thing I know dupioni is not a predictable fabric.
The rationale for the wider seam allowance is that it could shred.

It comes in few weights (usually light and medium), different grades and quality some more stable than others, although usually used in lose fitting apparel using couture methods (larger seam allowances) can be used in a semi fitted evening gowns and jackets.

Like I said whatever you want to do is fine, not trying to complicate just make you aware of the pitfalls..

Patti
.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Patti, Myrna & Sherry - I finally got the batiste underlining cut today (Wednesday)!!

I ended up carefully measuring 3/8" out all the way around, everywhere, on every piece (skirt and top). This way I can sew 1" seam allowances on all seams.

This process took a long time, but I feel safer this way.

Like Sherry had said to do, I had been handling the Dupioni and noticing quite a bit of fraying. So, I think the 1" seams will be best.

One thing went wrong, but I was able to catch it in time. I am going to make the size 16 skirt and the size 18 top. I had the 16 skirt cut and was moving on to do the top pieces. The top pieces (4 of them) were pinned to the batiste and I had just cut the second piece when I noticed a problem. I was cutting the size 16 !! I was sooo glad I caught it when I did....could have been worse! I fixed it, and now all top pieces are the correct size.

I left the pattern pieces pinned to the batiste. Now, I will have "templates" to cut out the lining and then the Dupioni. I got an email response from Logantex and like you ladies had said, the trademark name on the lining is on the "right" side.

I may not get a chance to do much until this Saturday.
My next plan is to press the lining, mark the right side and "top" with safety pins in the selvage. Then, cut all the pieces the same direction "with nap". I'll then do the same for the Dupioni. Then, comes the basting of batiste to the Dupioni.

I hope to have some pictures posted on Sunday or Monday. Thanks to you helpful & encouraging ladies. You're like my "sewing angels".


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie:
If you are still worried about sewing 1 inch seams, take a piece of masking tape and put it on the machine at the 1 inch mark on the plate. Painters tape would be best but the other will do too. When you see the tape you will remember 1 inch seams.

When you are finished sewing and remove the tape, if there is any glue residue on your machine, a bit of cooking or machine oil on a paper towel, will take it off. Then wash the oil off with a little soap and water on a cloth or another paper towel.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Good Job Laurie, Good Idea on the seam allowances, glad you checked the fraying.

Do It at your own speed, we will be checking in or you can email us if you need help..

Needle and stitch lengths: Please test on scraps( layer interlining and dupioni, also test for lining) the size of needle and the stitch lengths for basting and regular stitching before sewing. Record each number..

Myrna, good idea on marking the 1", I have used the blue painters tape to mark.

Take Care, Patti


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

All the pieces were cut this weekend : ) Using the batiste as a template, I cut all lining pieces. After that, I cut all Dupioni pieces.

I've got my blue painter's tape on the machine plate marking the 1"seam. I wound the bobbin slowly with the blue thread (100% cotton, silk finish). I put in a new needle, but it's not size 11. It's a Schmetz Microtex sharp 70/10. The needle tension dial is set to 2. My machine (Singer Featherweight) has a screw and bolt type of lever to adjust stitch length. With this type of lever, it's hard to tell exactly what stitch length I'm using. The stitch length is approximately 10.

When I practiced sewing on the scrap pieces, everything looked good. I practiced with the lining and then with the batiste layered with the Dupioni. There appears to be no puckering. The stitches look about the same on both sides of the samples.

I started basting the batiste to the Dupioni on the skirt back pieces. I began by pressing the two fabrics together. Then I hand basted (using a single purple thread) using about 1-1/2 to 2" stitches. I began going up the center, moving my "weights" (coffee cups) as needed. Then, I cut the thread and started basting along one side from bottom to top, started a new basting line along the waist, then a new line down the other side. I also basted the center of darts. I left the bottom hem un- basted. Then, I pressed the two basted fabrics, again (always using a dry iron and dry press cloth).

Before I proceed to sew the darts and continue to assemble the skirt, I was wondering if there's anything I have forgotten or if there are any problems or red flags you see with my process.

I'm waiting for the green light before I continue!

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, Your amazing!!!! Great job!!! I am so very proud of you!!!

When you machine baste the skirt do it the same way as you did the hand basting at 1/2 inch.

Myrna, Featherweight with the Screw type adjustment for stitch length, Isn't the smaller the number the longer the stitch? The higher the number the tighter and more stitches per inch?

Patti


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Pattie:

I'm not sure I have never used a machine with that kind of adjustment, however my first machine--oh so long ago-- had a dial with numbers for stitch length, and the higher the number the longer the stitch-0 had no feed and 5 was 7 stitches per inch. The machine is long gone, but I still have the manual so I looked it up.

Laurie and Pattie--I won't be around for a while. My grandson is very ill and in the hospital. We leaving tomorrow to go to my son's place. If you have any spare prayers, please say one for him.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Myrna, Will Keep your grandson in my thoughts and prayers wishing him a speedy recovery.. Have a safe trip..
Keep us updated on his condition.
Have not used one of the older machines in a very long time, like yours mine are electronic/computer types now with your type of settings.. Think that Laurie got the way they work..


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Myrna - I will most certainly pray for your son. Thank you for telling us and keep us informed about his status.

Patti - On my machine, the lowest number is 6 and that sews 6 stitches per inch. I will machine baste 1/2" in from the edge as you suggested. Hope your charity sewing last week went well and that you got a lot accomplished : )


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, Thoughtful of you to ask we will finish on Friday, whew we did a lot of stuff, mittens, hats, scarves and blankets the fleece is easy to work with, it is very rewarding to help those in need..
Good job on finding the basting stitch number. WooHoo your getting there.. Can't wait to see the finished skirt,
Patti


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Hi Laurie:
I'm back and everything turned out OK. I just talked to my DIL and my grandson is getting back to his old self. Thank you for prayers. I'm sure they helped.

It sounds like you are well on your way with the skirt--good going


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Myrna,
So Very happy grandson is getting back to himself.

Laurie, that means we are both back, finished charity work yesterday..Look forward to seeing the skirt..


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

I was gone all day Saturday - hiking in the Lake Arrowhead mountains with dh, ds & his gf. Was happy to read your postings this morning.

Myrna - So relieved to hear the great news about your grandson! I knew it was your grandson and not your son who was ill. I had incorrectly typed "son" in my last post. Life is precious and at times we're reminded how delicate it can be.

Patti - Good going on getting the charity work finished. Many lives will be warmer and happier with their newly made fleece items : )

You both have had a big impact on my life because you have helped me every step of the way with this dress project!

Latest update: I machine basted 1/2" all the way around each piece (batiste attached to Dupioni) of the skirt. I did not baste the lining pieces. Then, sewed the skirt pressing seams flat, then open (using press cloth on top of fabric and press cloth strips between seams). Then, I trimmed the seams right up to the 1/2" basted edge. I attached the lining, waistband and the zipper.

I am now reading & re-reading the steps to finish the front slit opening and the hem.
It says to turn up a 2"hem, keeping lining free. Baste close to fold. Trim hem to an even width. Finish raw edge. Sew hem in place, press.

Next, Make 2-1/2" hem in lining in same manner., keeping garmet free.
Open out skirt right front lining. With right sides together, pin lining & right front edges together at front opening edge. Stitch to large circle (top of slit).
Understitch lining.

Open out skirt left front lining. With right sides together, pin lining & left front edges together at front opening edges. Stitch to large circle. Understitch lining.

Turn lining to inside. Press. Catchstitch garmet & lining seam allowances to hem.

Make 1/2" French tack between lining & garmet side seams at lower edge

Sew hook & eye closure to waistband.

Any suggestions or tips before I attempt to hem the bottom and finish off the raw edge on the slit portion?


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, Sounds like you have most of it under control..

If there is a specific question or doubt just ask us..

I would let the skirt hang for a few hours and press hems (in both lining and skirt) twice before sewing in lining.. This lets the fabric set the hems in the fabric.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Before I sew the lining for the top together with the Dupioni I have a question. Should I do any more to keep the princess seams flat?

I used a pressing ham which I think helps a lot. The seams look great after pressing, but when I move the top, hold it up, lay it down...you can see the seams "ruffle" up just a bit. The lining doesn't concern me. It's the underlined Dupioni. Right now, I have a 1/2" seams that have a machine basting stitch right at the edge of the 1/2". Once I sew the lining & the fabric together, there's no going back inside! The lining will be be seamed all the way around including the bottom.

My next posting will probably be tomorrow or Wednesday and I will start a "Part 3". Hopefully, I'll have some completed pics to share : )

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, Your work is outstanding!!!!!! You absolutely amazing.
When I first saw this thought the lower picure was the top it is the lining right?

I also miss read thought you could see through it.
Regarding the puckers or ruffling:

You can trim to the 1/2" basting seam. Go back and edit make sure you have enough clips in the curves at especially before and after bust to before 1" armhole and in back where it curves 1" before armhole

Take the top and pin or baste shoulders let hit hang, press a more than a few times. Try this see what happens..


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

The bottom picture is the lining. I don't notice any puckering or ruffling on the right side of the top/seams. Only concerned about the seams on the inside. These seams were already cut to the 1/2" basted edge. Before sewing the pieces together,I only staystitched & clipped the curves where the pattern stated. So, should I now clip the other pieces involved with the curve, as well?


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Lovely Laurie. You are doing good work.

Pattie has good advice. The secret to getting nice laying seams and the look of a well made garment is press, press, press. Sometimes I think there is more time spent at the ironing board than the machine.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie, Yes sometimes it does require more clipping.
Sometimes when directions are written, think they should add the part you may need more clipping.

Anything with a curve requires clipping the tighter curve needs more clipping.

Myrna, your right more pressing than sewing in some cases..


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Clipping, pressing, trimmed seams, and small stitches.


 o
Pinking

You can also pink the seam allowances closer than if you just trim them.


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RE: Evening Dress - Part 2

Laurie
Maybe you can start another Post, taking a while to get through this one..


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