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pdog_gw

Eliminate 1/2 bath for larger kitchen?

pdog
10 years ago

Looking for some layout advice. We live in a typical 70s ranch, each room being closed off. We need a larger house and plan on moving within the next couple of years. The kitchen is dated (except for newer appliances). I have been thinking of doing a minor overhaul on the kitchen to help spruce it up, not only for resale but also to help us enjoy it while we are still here. We have 2 little ones and the small circular kitchen table isn�t cutting it anymore. We have 2 full baths by the bedrooms.

The thought was does eliminating the � bath (which was redone 7 years ago) to help open the kitchen hurt? I would love to shift the � bath to the laundry area, but moving the washer/dryer to the basement is not going to happen. We have thought about eliminating the wall between the living/dining/kitchen to open everything up, but that may be a little more than we are willing to go for now.

Any thoughts/suggestions? As much as my wife just wants to sell the house as is when we decide to move, I am very handy and can do all the labor. I figured some of my time would be worth the potential to a quick and possible easier sell.

Comments (23)

  • jimandanne_mi
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Several things stand out to me.

    I would keep the 1/2 bath, because otherwise your kids or other people's (of all ages) would have to traipse through the house from the back yard, car, or family room every time they needed to use it into what I prefer to keep as the private bedroom area. Also, since it was recently redone, it helps update the house.

    Taking down the wall between the kitchen and dining room would be a definite plus, and probably is not load-bearing, although this would add to the expense if it is. Just having these 2 rooms combined would make a huge difference in the feel of the house, along with my next suggestion:

    Light, and a connection between the living room and kitchen would be a plus, but this could be done by putting a door between the rooms opposite the end of the kitchen peninsula. I would want to keep the K/LR wall for more kitchen cabinets and better furniture placement in the LR--it is probably load-bearing and would be expensive to remove. Shorten the peninsula a foot or so.

    Add a cabinet run along the kitchen wall from the 1/2 bath to about where the right side of the round table is. It would have (L to R) a small upper and lower cabinet, the range, and an under cabinet MW over an open base counter. This would give you a much more functional kitchen, and more counter space and storage.

    I cannot read the measurements very well--could you change the type font for the rooms to make it larger and readable? Also, where are the stairs to the basement, and is there livable space down there? What is the width and height of the kitchen window, and could you add the rest of the windows to your drawing?

    How do you use the FR, LR, and DR now? If you had to stay in the house longer than a couple of years, it seems like a limited remodel would help you live better in it.

    You haven't said anything about the market for your size/age house/your neighborhood. From your comments, I assume you realize that you would probably not get your money out of this remodel, and would be doing it because it will help sell the house. Do you just want to get a larger house, or do you want to get out of your neighborhood?

    Do you need to get a certain amount out of the house to buy a new one? Since house prices seem to be going up in many areas, will you be able to afford the house you want? Are your jobs secure?

    If all of this sounds like too much work, and too much expense--depending on what your house will sell for, I might agree with your wife about just selling it as is. Have you talked to any realtors about your market/house?

    Not trying to be nosy--just lots to be considered. The downturn had already begun here when we were going to list our place, and there was lots on the market. We put a fair amount of $$$ into DIY remodeling (DH & I did the electrical, insulation (read up on this--things have changed!), kitchen, baths, cabinet installation, windows, drywall repairs, painting, but we didn't have to change any walls--although we have added (but not taken down) walls in other projects. We had subs do the plumbing, tile, countertops, and carpeting. DH was still working, but I was retired.

    Anne

  • xamsx
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The way your house is set up, I would not eliminate it.

  • chicagoans
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wouldn't eliminate the powder room. It won't give you much space back into the kitchen, and it will give you a long trek from the family room to another restroom.

    You have a living room, family room, and dining room. Those seem more redundant than the powder room, so I'd consider opening the kitchen to the DR and making it a large eat in kitchen (nix the little round table.) If you want an additional formal dining space, you could potentially use either the FR or LR for that, even if you just set up extra tables for holiday dinners.

    The kitchens forum will help you find a really good layout.

    If it helps for inspiration, I have linked a renovation posted on the kitchens forum by firsthousemp. Quite a transformation of a ranch house kitchen (and more.) I realize this is likely way more than you plan to do, but it might give you some ideas.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Firsthousemp's renovation

  • pdog
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks all. I will review that post.

    A single 32”x37” double hung window in the kitchen, but a large skylight directly in the middle of the kitchen adds plenty of light. I like the idea of removing the wall between the kitchen and dining room, but those cabinets will need to go elsewhere (bottom and top), along with the range and microwave, but you pointed that out. Stairs to the basement are thru the garage only (I know). We always use the FR, that is where we spend most of our time, TV and fireplace. The LR is a waste to be honest, has kids toys (we have a 3 year old and a 10 month old). I have thought about access between the kitchen and LR, was just not sure on placement. We have baseboard hot water heating, so that would need to be modified but that is ok.

    Market in our area is doing well now for our size house. I believe we would get the money out of the remodel, depending on how high end we go with cabinets, etc. The kitchen table is what is the issue. My wife really wants a new/larger one now. I keep telling her we should utilize the dining room more, but she prefers the eat in. Maybe if the wall was gone she would feel differently.

    Sorry for the crappy picture, it came out of the program I was using. Kitchen is 18’-2” x 11’-2”, FR is 14’x18’, DR is 11’-2” x 13’-6” and the LR is 13’-3” x 16’-6”

  • nosoccermom
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A half bath is worth a lot IMO; however, how much of an issue is it that it's basically entered from your kitchen?

  • Fori
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's a big (enough) kitchen. Get the table out of there and use the dining room, either opened up to the kitchen all the way. a little, or as is.

    And take it to the kitchen forum! They can fix anything. :P

  • pdog
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My wife is not a fan of entering from the kitchen. Me, I could care less. It is great when we are in the FR watching TV, just a couple of steps and boom you are there. The downside to the laundry and 1/2 bath is that it narrows the entrance into the kitchen down and really reduces the amount of heat my fireplace insert spreads to the rest of the house. Would love to open the area between the kitchen and FR, but only if we were staying.

  • Happyladi
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The only way I would suggest removing the half bath is if you could move it over and take it out of what is now part of the garage. If you could do that you could open it up and it would be very nice.

    I agree about removing the wall between the kitchen and dining area or at least opening it up a lot more. I went on a high end newer home tour recently and was surprised that not a single house had a formal dining area.

  • kirkhall
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think you need to keep the 1/2 bath. If I were in your shoes, I'd see about opening up the kitch-dining room... Do you use the dining room?

    Is that in important room in your local market (it isn't in mine).

  • pdog
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks. We never use our dining room. Shame to, nice space. If we were staying, I would wipe it out and make 1 large eat in kitchen. Just concerned about the resale. I see some people on other forums saying they would not like not having a formal dining room, especially in an older home like ours. Since our house is only a 3 bedroom, I am hoping we will be catering towards a younger family, maybe a kid coming soon that would like the more open feel.

  • lyfia
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would turn the living room into the formal dining with an opening from the kitchen and next to the powder room wall. This should be easy to DIY.

    Then I would combine the dining and kitchen (ie remove the wall) and make it an eat in kitchen with space for some of the toys so you can cook and watch the kids at the same time. Put cabinets on both sides of the walls then you won't miss not having the uppers on the side where the current dining is.

  • pdog
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We threw that idea around as well, and it was not bad. The living room is basically a play room, but again will a homebuyer miss not having it? Not sure since we have the FR.

  • pdog
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We threw that idea around as well, and it was not bad. The living room is basically a play room, but again will a homebuyer miss not having it? Not sure since we have the FR.

  • lyfia
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well it is really up to the buyer to decide how they want to use that room in the end. They could use it as a dining or they could use it as a formal living room. I think there are a lot more people that want a formal dining than a formal living room though.

    I wouldn't want either, but that is my personal preference and being that it is an existing house it would be a flexible space to use as somebody wishes.

  • mpinto
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I removed a wall between my kitchen and dining room, and it is great! You could use your counter as an eating bar as well.

  • pdog
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks everyone. Lots of good stuff here. I am going to try and convince her to lose the dining room. If we move the range an eating bar is a must with stools. I have seen that before and love the look. Still looking at entrance options into the living room, whether it remains a living room or changes to a DR. I also thought about a large opening/passthrough to allow a more open feel and allow more light in.

  • Debbie Downer
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    2 rooms devoted to food and eating is enough (kitch and DR) - not sure why you would also change a third room the LR into a DR? Am I understanding that? over a 1/3 of your square footage, seriously?

    If the LR is not being used I'd look more at just making it more user friendly - think of how else you can furnish it to make it more comfy and useful - and keep it as a space for family members to use as need be, not only just when company comes over. As kids grow up I don't see everyone all wanting to be in the same family room together 24/7. Nice to have an alternative place for quiet conversation or to snuggle and read while more noisy or boisterous activity is going on in the family room. For that same reason Im not seeing the attraction of opening the kitchen into the living room.

  • littlebug5
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with everyone about knocking down the wall between the kitchen and dining room, leaving an eating peninsula. The peninsula will take the place of the kitchen table that your wife doesn't want to give up.

    On your formal living room - I think it's not used because it's a dead end room. You can only enter it from the front hall, and I assume that you and your family come and go from the garage entry. So you're never even near the entrance to the living room.

    Is there a way to open it up? Maybe make it more open to the dining room by removing that corner wall? Or doubling the size of the door that's there now? (Do you really need that hallway?)

    You probably won't have any room to make an opening from the living room into the kitchen after you redesign the kitchen, and I'm not sure you'd want to.

  • pdog
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks. I have been sketching ideas without the DR/Kitchen wall, and tried to picture it in my head last night while standing in the kitchen. It would be a huge help.

    You were dead on about the entry. We enter thru the garage (front door is never used) and go thru the FR and kitchen. Eliminating a portion of that load bearing wall/corner would help. I also thought about a connection between the kitchen and LR as mentioned above and do not hate the idea. I think it would make the room more usable, especially with a nice LCD on the wall :)

  • kjdnns
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was recently in the market for a home. I really wanted a ranch, found one with exactly the same layout you have but ultimately didn't purchase it because it wasn't open enough. It does seem that open layout is a big thing these days. That said, if you're up for it, I'd take down the wall between the dining room and kitchen and the kitchen and living room. That will make the kitchen feel bigger and you keep the half bath which, as a buyer, I'd prefer because you don't necessarily want your guests going into family bathrooms.

  • kjdnns
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just read the other comments and wanted to point out that the wall between the kitchen and the LR is almost certainly a load bearing wall but you can remove it completely (which is costly because your contractor has to put in a special beam - the name escapes me right now) or you could put in columns. I like the column idea because it still leaves the area open but potential buyers that like a more formal LR might be okay with the distinction between the rooms.

  • pdog
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, it is load bearing. We have done some sketches with a portion of it gone. It really opens it up, but my wife thinks a little too much. She like a little separation between the LR and kitchen.

    I think the plan (if I can convince her to do it) is lose the kitchen/DR wall, push the kitchen into the DR slightly with some additional cabinets and counter (with a sitting area in between with stools) and possibly opening a connection between the LR and kitchen. I agree with the statements above, the LR is a dead end and doesn't seem to be used much since you walk all the way around to get in/out. A connection either closer to the existing DR wall, or maybe ever right adjacent to the 1/2 bath into the LR may work. Kids are still young, but there are many days that they want their shows on so another TV sitting area would be a plus for dad. :)

  • Debbie Downer
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think unifying the food prep/eating areas makes sense - beyond that, I would remind you that your original post mentioned resale in the next couple years and any remodeling to be in sync with that.

    Just a gentle reminder that other families may have a whole different orientation to the house - if they're big walkers around the neighborhood, they may be coming in the front door more often. They may love the privacy of your LR as is and have more of a library-retreat-home office use in mind for it. I think if you're not using the LR it's more because your family hasn't found a function for it, not because of size of doors or openings.

    If you have that kitch wall open anyway then what the heck, have at it, but I sure wouldn't put much energy or money into any major reconfiguration of rooms and traffic.