The DW...

• The DW is in the path b/w the cooktop (range?) & sink.

The DW is right in the middle of the Prep Zone (which will be on the wall run to the right of the sink b/c it's across from the range, it's next to water, and it's not in the path to the pantry.)

Remember, you spend far more time prepping (70%) and cooking (10%) than you do cleaning up (20%)...so if you must choose b/w the DW & Cleanup Zone in the path to the pantry or the Prep Zone, the Cleanup Zone makes a lot more sense (both b/c of time spent in the path as well as proximity to range)
The DW is also opening into a rather narrow aisle. When open, it will stick out into the aisle approx 30"...leaving 9" to get by...or less...see next point
Are your aisle measurements cabinet-to-cabinet or counter edge-to-counter edge?

If the former, then the aisle b/w the island and sink wall is really only 36" b/c there's approx a 1.5" overhang (to cover the doors/drawer fronts plus a bit more to protect them from spills). Add to that the "extra" 2" or so depth of most ranges, and it's down to 34". The "hall" to the pantry will be approx 1.5" narrower as well.
The trash pullout is far from the Prep & Cooking Zones. You will find that you generate far more trash and recycling waste while prepping and cooking than you do while cleaning up...even if you don't have a garbage disposal. Additionally, you generate that trash/recycle wast for a longer period of time and multiple times during the day.

Most people cleanup once or twice a day...but prepping, and to some extent cooking, usually goes on all day on & off.

By far the biggest mistake I made in my kitchen was putting the trash pullout next to the cleanup sink in the Cleanup Zone. I have to cross an aisle approx 6' wide to get to the trash & recycle bins from my Prep & Cooking Zones...often dripping all the way.

Be aware that a 24" walkway is pretty narrow...I would try it out b/f you commit to that narrow an aisle in the pantry. And test it out w/full-height (like stacked boxes), not drawing it on the floor or using a single layer of short boxes - you need the "mass" to get the full effect (we have a 24" aisle

in our closet and I wish it were 6" to 12" wider).

I understand you're the primary cook, but does that mean that no one else ever works in the kitchen or does other things in the kitchen at the same time?

Is the "third" person in your family a child or another adult? If child, do you plan to teach him/her to cook and cleanup? If so, you need to have room to teach and to allow him/her to work at the same time as you are.

Range in island...it looks like you plan to have at least 24" on each side and behind it...very good! Do you plan to have an overhead rangehood? (Please say yes!) In this particular instance, I think I prefer the range in the island to the sink (yes, you heard me right!)

My recommendations:

• I would switch the DW & Trash pullout, make that 27" cabinet...

The DW...

• The DW is in the path b/w the cooktop (range?) & sink.

The DW is right in the middle of the Prep Zone (which will be on the wall run to the right of the sink b/c it's across from the range, it's next to water, and it's not in the path to the pantry.)

Remember, you spend far more time prepping (70%) and cooking (10%) than you do cleaning up (20%)...so if you must choose b/w the DW & Cleanup Zone in the path to the pantry or the Prep Zone, the Cleanup Zone makes a lot more sense (both b/c of time spent in the path as well as proximity to range)
The DW is also opening into a rather narrow aisle. When open, it will stick out into the aisle approx 30"...leaving 9" to get by...or less...see next point
Are your aisle measurements cabinet-to-cabinet or counter edge-to-counter edge?

If the former, then the aisle b/w the island and sink wall is really only 36" b/c there's approx a 1.5" overhang (to cover the doors/drawer fronts plus a bit more to protect them from spills). Add to that the "extra" 2" or so depth of most ranges, and it's down to 34". The "hall" to the pantry will be approx 1.5" narrower as well.
The trash pullout is far from the Prep & Cooking Zones. You will find that you generate far more trash and recycling waste while prepping and cooking than you do while cleaning up...even if you don't have a garbage disposal. Additionally, you generate that trash/recycle wast for a longer period of time and multiple times during the day.

Most people cleanup once or twice a day...but prepping, and to some extent cooking, usually goes on all day on & off.

By far the biggest mistake I made in my kitchen was putting the trash pullout next to the cleanup sink in the Cleanup Zone. I have to cross an aisle approx 6' wide to get to the trash & recycle bins from my Prep & Cooking Zones...often dripping all the way.

Be aware that a 24" walkway is pretty narrow...I would try it out b/f you commit to that narrow an aisle in the pantry. And test it out w/full-height (like stacked boxes), not drawing it on the floor or using a single layer of short boxes - you need the "mass" to get the full effect (we have a 24" aisle

in our closet and I wish it were 6" to 12" wider).

I understand you're the primary cook, but does that mean that no one else ever works in the kitchen or does other things in the kitchen at the same time?

Is the "third" person in your family a child or another adult? If child, do you plan to teach him/her to cook and cleanup? If so, you need to have room to teach and to allow him/her to work at the same time as you are.

Range in island...it looks like you plan to have at least 24" on each side and behind it...very good! Do you plan to have an overhead rangehood? (Please say yes!) In this particular instance, I think I prefer the range in the island to the sink (yes, you heard me right!)

My recommendations:

• I would switch the DW & Trash pullout, make that 27" cabinet...

The DW...

• The DW is in the path b/w the cooktop (range?) & sink.

The DW is right in the middle of the Prep Zone (which will be on the wall run to the right of the sink b/c it's across from the range, it's next to water, and it's not in the path to the pantry.)

Remember, you spend far more time prepping (70%) and cooking (10%) than you do cleaning up (20%)...so if you must choose b/w the DW & Cleanup Zone in the path to the pantry or the Prep Zone, the Cleanup Zone makes a lot more sense (both b/c of time spent in the path as well as proximity to range)
The DW is also opening into a rather narrow aisle. When open, it will stick out into the aisle approx 30"...leaving 9" to get by...or less...see next point
Are your aisle measurements cabinet-to-cabinet or counter edge-to-counter edge?

If the former, then the aisle b/w the island and sink wall is really only 36" b/c there's approx a 1.5" overhang (to cover the doors/drawer fronts plus a bit more to protect them from spills). Add to that the "extra" 2" or so depth of most ranges, and it's down to 34". The "hall" to the pantry will be approx 1.5" narrower as well.
The trash pullout is far from the Prep & Cooking Zones. You will find that you generate far more trash and recycling waste while prepping and cooking than you do while cleaning up...even if you don't have a garbage disposal. Additionally, you generate that trash/recycle wast for a longer period of time and multiple times during the day.

Most people cleanup once or twice a day...but prepping, and to some extent cooking, usually goes on all day on & off.

By far the biggest mistake I made in my kitchen was putting the trash pullout next to the cleanup sink in the Cleanup Zone. I have to cross an aisle approx 6' wide to get to the trash & recycle bins from my Prep & Cooking Zones...often dripping all the way.

Be aware that a 24" walkway is pretty narrow...I would try it out b/f you commit to that narrow an aisle in the pantry. And test it out w/full-height (like stacked boxes), not drawing it on the floor or using a single layer of short boxes - you need the "mass" to get the full effect (we have a 24" aisle

in our closet and I wish it were 6" to 12" wider).

I understand you're the primary cook, but does that mean that no one else ever works in the kitchen or does other things in the kitchen at the same time?

Is the "third" person in your family a child or another adult? If child, do you plan to teach him/her to cook and cleanup? If so, you need to have room to teach and to allow him/her to work at the same time as you are.

Range in island...it looks like you plan to have at least 24" on each side and behind it...very good! Do you plan to have an overhead rangehood? (Please say yes!) In this particular instance, I think I prefer the range in the island to the sink (yes, you heard me right!)

My recommendations:

• I would switch the DW & Trash pullout, make that 27" cabinet...

I absolutely love the kitchen layout! The fridge looks easy to reach and great idea for the pantry. Are you still using stools with the island?

The back hall has lots of storage, too. Are you putting any hooks up for coats, scarves, etc.? They're always handy.

My only concern is switching the stairs and coming down so close to the wood stove. Maybe move the woodstove right in front of the chimney (x?) and leave more room to get around it?

You've done a wonderful job and I really like this latest plan! :)

The staircase will have either a bannister or a half wall past the end of the wood stove to keep the 12 year old from tripping on it (and me). There should be a wall protrusion on the plan near the chimney that DH took out ??. The wall sticks out to the front of the stove. The chimney is coming up from the furnace in the basement.

Yep there will be hooks for coats and such in the back hallway although DH DOES not want that being the mudroom. He's convinced that we'll all walk around to the front of the house. LMAO - not me that's why I'm putting SOME sort of landing area back there as well. If there's a door it will get used.

I'm planning on stools for the island, plain round ones, probably only two of them.

Thanks - we're really beginning to like this plan.

Anyone else with opinions? Going to finalize floor plan soon and move into cabinet plans next :)

You might think about changing the pantry door into a pocket door. It would get it out of the way during longer projects (like putting away groceries or holiday cooking).

Also in the pantry, you might invade the stud space on the 9" deep side towards the hall. Possibly also on the hall between the kitchen and bedroom. You get an extra 2-3" of depth.

Equal but opposite, I might cut the 6" shelves in favor of clamps on the exterior wall for brooms and mops and perhaps use a little basket over them to store some cleaning gear.

I think the linen closet might come too close to the bathroom door. If you reversed everything so the bench ended up on the inside edge, it might work better with the door. I'm thinking the other door with the mudroom will handle most of the coats and boots stuff.

It might be fun to line the back of the pantry with hanging pegs for coats and hats and scarves or purses if you use that entrance more.

One final word - cookbooks (or other forms of recipes?)

The only thing I'm not sure of is putting stools at the island - you don't show them, but mentioned it in a pp. They will be very tight to the chairs at the kitchen table and really inhibit movement from the entry to the living room. I think I'd leave them out and get additional storage under the island. Or, shorten the counter and give yourself a couple more inches between island and sink wall cabs . . . I have 39 inches, and it really is too tight for us, but we have multiple cooks, would probably be fine if I was the only one ever trying to get back there.

I am concerned also about the range and dw being back to back...Center the range on the island?

Switching trash and dw is a very good idea, so trash is accessible from both areas...Maybe even put trash across in the island for easy sweep of prep mess...and still an easy turn from the sink to scrape plates.

I like Bmore's suggestions for the pantry, but like Buehl, I think 24" aisle in there is pretty narrow for getting back to the 9" shelves. I'm not a large person, but I don't think I'd like that at all. How do you fit you and a bag or box of groceries to fill the shelves? If you can't make it deeper, I'd shorten it from the left side for a step in, and put in a deep closet from the mudroom side.

WHat's holding the bath vanity away from the wall a wall's width? I would want that vanity to end even with the wall to the right as you come in. I hope that makes sense.

I thought it was a medicine cabinet, on the left side of the bathroom sink.

I don't think Jenelle can move her windows, so I understand her wanting to keep the sink centered under the windows, but switching the dishwasher and trash sounds like a good idea.

Would 39" be too tight, between the fridge and the island? If she moved the fridge down six inches, it would give her 30" in the pantry, which might make things a little roomier.

If there's going to be benches on two sides of the dining table, I'm guessing that table could be moved over towards the corner a bit more. That should leave room for at least a couple of stools at the island.

I think the earlier suggestion of a pocket door on the pantry would be a good idea. Then, you'd have easy access to a set of drawers, on the left of the dishwasher, if you moved it to the other side of the sink. It's always nice to have lots of drawers in a kitchen :)

But the pocket door could only go on the right, so would be pretty small...A pocket can't go where there is anything in the wall, or where there is an intersection of walls. I this case, the wall framing the right of the fridge and outlet for the fridge would be problems. The outlet could be installed in the wall to the left, perhaps, and if you could do without framing in the fridge, and do a wood panel instead, the pocket door could work. Remember that for a door, you need framing and casing which will decrease the size of the opening.

I see that if the sink stays where it is, the dw cannot be on the left without opening into the side of the fridge. Would you consider moving the sink to the right end of the window, and centering the range in the island? Then the dw and trash could switch.

OR...maybe do like I said with the pantry before...Shorten it and inset the fridge back some (you'll probably still have room to create storage accessible from the mud room side behind the fridge), then you'd have room to have the dw to the left of the sink, and the island could be longer.

This allows you to have prep space across from the sink, which would be nice, I think.

Rhome- That looks nice! How deep is the pantry?

The longer island gives Jenelle more room for stools, too :)

I didn't change the pantry depth, so it's whatever she had...I guess it's 3 ft, since she had 12" back shelves and 24" of clear space. But it looks like it's about 5 ft wide, so a nice size, IMO. Yep, the island offers more room for stools as well as additional storage.

Reverse the hinge side of the pantry door - door storage is against the ref. It's really in the way where it opens now.

Door storage? I'm not understanding. Things stored on the door? But if for no other reason, switching the hinges will keep the door from hitting and blocking the cabinets, and will make it easier to see and reach the storage on the right end of the pantry. Probably won't need to access fridge and pantry at the same time, or someone can wait their turn. ;-)

One thing I didn't mention is that I was thinking of hooks on the wall inside the pantry to the left of the doorway...for broom, aprons, or whatever. The door casing will provide just enough depth.

Storage of the door itself.

Or swinging half width doors, the kind that can swing in or out.

There are so many functional ideas here - annoyances that I've just lived with :)

Appliances - 30" Slide in Electric (fooey) Range (induction would be idealâ¦)
Dish drawers (may be in stereo or may be stacked haven't decided yet).
Fridge is a Samsung, counter depth, side by side.
Micro will be built in on the island somewhere, have been thinking the end run by the fridge - we rarely use the microwave but feel we need it for the occasional leftover or popcorn bag.

I do not plan an overhead range hood, planning on a downdraft and I'll be cooking with electric.

Funny how my glass and stainless, curved range hood was the center of my last kitchen remodel (with a gas cooktop), never even crossed my mind with this new kitchen.

My husband would like to help in the kitchen, I usually hand him something across the bar to chop for me. DS is 12 and I must admit I'm a terrible mom and very rarely have him help me - it's so much easier to do myself lol. I suppose I need to teach him to fend for himself so I guess he'll be in the kitchen at some point.

Buehl - I thank you for your insight on a working kitchen.

Rhome I'm working with the plan you put up. I'll put up a more complete plan with the changes and see how they look.

Lavender - you know what I want :0) The pantry is 36" deep still.

bmore - I like the swing door idea. Still playing with the door in general.

The bathroom - the area next to the vanity will either be medicine cab or I'll make the vanity bigger since it's a small one.

Here's what I came up with

The pantry width is 4' 9" and 36" deep.

I think you will still need a framed and cased doorway for the pocket door, so I still fear your opening is kind of small, which is why I moved your fridge to the left. I would go ahead with 12" shelves on the right, just so they're easier to see and reach.

Have you verified that 20" is enough space for your chosen microwave? Ours had specs for 3" air space on the sides, which was more than I expected...If that's the case with yours, you can only fit a 10" microwave in a 20" cabinet (which will be 18.5" inside). Just making sure you won't be unpleasantly surprised later.

My advice is to have drawer bases where you indicate the possibility...But figure out what you want to keep in each to make sure you want 2 banks at 36". You may want to adjust the one on the window wall and share some of the size with the 18".

I think this plan will be better for welcoming your dh and ds into the kitchen to help...and yes, I heartily recommend teaching him to help and learn to make his own meals! :-D DH's grandmother was a great cook and it was 'easier to do things herself,' so my MIL didn't know it wasn't OK to cook pasta ahead of the guests' arrival and just keep it simmering on the stove...And she asked me how much Swiss cheese to put in spaghetti sauce. She stuffed her turkeys a day ahead, then roasted it for hours at a low temp, so her dishes not only had taste and texture issues, but safety, also. Maybe not quite the same situations as your son will face, but he will presumably have his own place for awhile sometime, and need to eat. I like that every once in awhile, I can take a break and let a capable child cook our dinner. -And he might even enjoy cooking. My teen daughters and son have male friends who ask, and now almost expect, to bake when at our house. It can be fun to work along side your son...and maybe eventually, his friends, too.

I'm not sure if it's been suggested, but I'd recommend moving the sink down to the left, and move the range along the wall to the right.
That's because I highly dislike my range on the island.
I can't have anyone sitting at the island while I'm cooking (splattering grease, hot stove, etc). Unless you're getting induction, the range will stay hot after you're done cooking.
My girlfriend is looking to buy a home and told her realtor that she will not buy another house w/ a stove on an island/peninsula.

my 2 cents.

jealous of your WI pantry

Amanda

Jenelle- I love it! :)

Amanda has a good point that you do have room for the range on the solid outside wall, and you could vent out that way and have the whole island free for baking and prep.

I remember in your other thread that you were leaving the stove close to its original location, so initially assumed there was a gas line or something, but now I realize it's electric, so was there a particular reason you were trying not to move it? For an existing downdraft maybe?

Regarding cooking with electric and a range hood...it's not the type of cooking appliance (gas/electric/induction) you're using that determines the need for a hood, it's how and what you cook...if you do much more than boil water you really need a decent hood.

I used a Dacor telescoping downdraft for a week over the summer and it proved to me without a doubt how very little they actually work. And Dacor is one of the ones that people say work the best for a downdraft. Unless I put a short pot right next to the downdraft, it didn't do much of anything (except make noise and be right "in the face" of anyone sitting across from it on the peninsula - raised counter).

However, it is your kitchen, so the final decision is yours...but make an informed decision based on functionality, not aesthetics (unless you are a "form over function" person, in that case, the downdraft would probably be better for you.)

Rhome - In order to make enough room for a pantry door I can move the fridge wall down a bit, removing the shelving unit at the end of it, facing the staircase. I would prefer this since I have an original (to the house) door that's pretty big. It's a 9 light panel door with frosted glass.

A 12" shelf instead of a 9" shelf inside the pantry makes sense.

I'll adjust the micro cabinet - forgot about the venting for it :) The existing cabinet is 30" wide and 19" deep - it's a little big but I do need to adjust my cabinet.

Kids Cooking - I did great with older DD and DS, in fact I had to call the 21 yo DS for a recipe last night LOL. For some reason I just didn't include the youngest DS into cooking plans but I guess he needs to learn like the rest of them did if he plans on feeding himself AND not being too dependent on a wife to feed him all the time. OMG you're MIL is hilarious - point well taken :0)

Range against wall vs island - I could, in theory, have a range against a wall but I've never really liked a range next to the sink and the biggest reason - It t would put my back to the rest of the house while I'm both cooking and cleaning and I absolutely don't want that. This design allows me to look outside on one side of the house while doing dishes and outside the windows on the other side while cooking.

Downdraft vs hood - This is my first time using a downdraft (old Jennair range) and it seriously kicks butt. The only issue I have is if I have a very tall soup pan I have to put a lid on it at an angle to get the moisture to go down. The downdraft is in the middle of the burners. Not sure if the newer Jennairs are as powerful so I need to check that out. The problem I see with a hood is the 12' ceilings and having to poke another hole in the roof. I already know that DH will not want to have another vent up there and seeing all that stainless steel might drive me nuts. I'll explore the idea with him and see what pops.

DH had experience with the Dacor downdraft and thought it was a bad design, he was totally against downdrafts until we got this place. I do prefer function over form but hopefully I can find both IF I can find another downdraft as powerful as I one I have right now.

For some reason I thought that gas produced "dirtier" cooking, requiring a vent. This is my first experience with electric and while I don't love it, I think it's much cleaner overall. Could be because it's my first experience with island cooking as well, I usually have cabinets above the cooktop and was always cleaning grease off of them (crappy or no range hood).

Amanda - I've been working on a range in the island since March and haven't had any issues with it personally. I'll have a slightly wider bar than I do now and I'm shifting the seating down past the range so that will free up more space for the 2 or 3 people hanging at the bar hoping to avoid hot splatters.

I can't wait for my WIP :)

I really -...

So... About to put myself out there as a PITA, but it seems like you want a prep sink and a landing spot for the fridge, is that right? If so, CAN you move the range to the sink wall and move the prep way down freeing up the island for massive prep and landing space, not to mention eating space without cooktop splatter. I couldn't find in your posts anything about the range staying put, but I just skimmed. Is it okay to have your back to the LR? After moving the range I also replaced pantry with 18" pull out and appliance garage with a cab over it for cookbooks??? Anyway just another thought. Love your space and windows! Oops, just checked my image and the prep sink isn't showing up, should be a foot in on the island near the stairs.

Here is a link that might be useful: end run cab garage