I really like the idea of opening up the two spaces. If you aren't very tall, you could put a washer and dryer under a counter and hidden behind doors. I saw that on some HGTV show a while back. They were actually in a dining room and it looked like a built in hutch. They could also stack somewhere and be hidden. (I'm tending towards that corner nearth ecelalr stairs - opening up all the rest of the space for kitchen and a big farm style table).

Opening up the space will definitely broaden your layout options. It will also immediately solve your sink/dw and seating issues. If you can't remove the wall though, the laundry room is a perfect place for a walk-in pantry, so you'll be ok either way, I think.

How many seats did you want to have in the kitchen? I think 3 would fit, but 4 might be tight.

Just out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of the laundry space, and how much of it do you think you could donate to the kitchen, with or without the wall?

I'm not tracking or absorbing everything all that well, I don't feel, so sorry if I'm repeating or offering suggestions you've already decided against...but here are some of my impressions. First of all, you said this is your forever home and forever kitchen, so it's very important to do it 'right' and have it work the best it can for you during your family's growing years.

This isn't a place to skimp and leave yourself fighting a too tight layout for the next few decades. It's hard for me to say, because we DIY everything, but if you're willing to change electrical and plumbing, I'm not sure taking out a wall is that much of an expense? Maybe I'm just naive. I love having a separate laundry room, but do think you might be able to manage a unique solution to combine the 2 rooms.

On the other hand a smallish kitchen can be great, and I absolutely LOVE the first kitchen shown by Rubyfig. I agree with others that the peninsula looks like it blocks up the whole room, and doesn't go with the integrity of the style of a house this age. I think a banquette could be a nice answer. If you could make use of the space as well as that kitchen and stay in the current footprint, I'd work almost as hard to design the laundry space to work as laundry and pantry. Maybe it might mean repositioning the wall to make best use of both rooms. There are definitely ways to deal with the load-bearing issue.

Actually, looking at it now, I would love to try something that moved the porch door to the laundry, and split the laundry in half so that one portion is laundry and one is pantry, each with their own entrance from the kitchen.

Definitely don't move the door to the dining room. If anything, I could see enlarging it, but I think you need to keep the traffic pattern across the end of the dining room as it is.

Oooh! Love Rhome's plan!

Lascatx - Sounds like a neat idea for the washer and dryer, but I'm in love w/ having a separate laundry rm. (Although a big farm table does sound perfect.)

Cawila - I'd like to have four seats in the kitchen but I think I'd be able to settle for 3. The laundry is 7' x17''. I could give up about 1/4 for kitchen stuff. Right now it functions as both a laundry and mud rm. and is invaluable.

Rhome - Thx for all of your good advice. I really love the design you sketched out using half of the LR as a pantry. It has a lot of character. We are going to explore it as an option. However, we still would like to figure out a layout for the kitchen as is if possible. Our resources are being pulled in many directions by this house!

We do have a couple of options that we'd like feedback on.

The first one is based on Holligator's design but instead of moving the kitchen door we widened it. Could it possilby work w/ these dimensions?????

{{!gwi}}

The second plan uses Rubyfig's banquette idea.

{{!gwi}}

While not a huge fan of island sinks, I think the holligator inspired plan might be OK. But I think you'll want more overhang for the seating, since the faucet will be much further back than pictured...and right in someone's face.

The other one has long paths/wide aisles between fridge and sink, and sink and stove. I'd be doing a lot of dripping and dropping

I think with the island layout, you're going to be having some major conflicts when the DW is down and the frig door is needed to be opened. Maybe it would be better if you moved it to the other side. While there'd still be a conflict with the range, my frig tends to stay open alot longer than the oven door. Plus, if it's on the other side, I'm assuming you'd have upper cabinets there for the dishes.

I do like the 2nd one, but agree with Rhome's comments. Would be great if you could get a prep sink somehow between the frig and range. I'm assuming the range won't fit on the porch door wall? what about in the corner and you could scoot the frig all the way to the left.

Rhome and Malhgold - Thanks for the feedback. I know both plans are a little lacking but didn't have time to fine tune. I'm starting to think the 2nd plan could only work if we put in a prep sink but I'm not sure I have a lot of space to give up.

The island layout needs tweaking too. Mahlgold, you made a good point about moving the DW to the other side of the island. We are planning on a French door fridge. I was hoping that it may not interfere w the DW.

The real problem is that I LOVE LOVE Rhome's LR/pantry idea. It looks like it belongs in this house. I have been sitting here playing with her drawing. It just involves so much more structurally...

Rhome - If we use a farm sink in the island (in addition to extending the counter) do you think that would help w/ the faucet in the face issue???

I also LOVE rhome's pantry idea. It seems to work so well on so many different levels. Holligator's is a great choice as well, even with a wider overhang. THe creativity of people on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

Just something to think about in your second plan without the island or for a different plan.

My Mother had a butcher block table approximately 2' x 3' on wheels, probably 34" high. If our kitchen was a foot wider, I would definitely have one. You can move it closer to the sink or closer to the stove as needed. In my imagination I still try to put one in our kitchen.

scrappy - I'm in agreement. The people on this forum are amazing!

debs3 - I like the idea of the butcher block table. If I used the plan w/o the island and added a prep sink it would be very low on counter space, so that might help it.

There are some really great ideas here, and I'm really liking rhome's layout, too. She's left most of the possibly load bearing wall in place and only added a door-sized opening. You might find that adding the door opening isn't all that cost prohibitive. It seems that completely removing the wall would be a major undertaking, but the door opening could fit into a budget.

Good luck with your kitchen layout. Your dining room is fantastic!

Taking down a load-bearing wall is not that big of a deal--my husband and I have done it ourselves three times--all you have to do is put a beam in to displace the weight. Just putting a door in a load bearing wall is a piece of cake, and shouldn't cost much even if you can't do the work yourselves. I'd definitely try to work it into the budget--Rhome's plan is excellent.

"If we use a farm sink in the island (in addition to extending the counter) do you think that would help w/ the faucet in the face issue???"

I don't think a farm sink would change the faucet problem, as the faucets seem to be installed in the same place as they would be for any other sink.

Here is a link that might be useful: images of farm sinks

Mini bottle and Raenjapan -Your input is appreciated. It's not just the door in the load bearing wall that worries me. We would also have to move an exterior door and change window placement, possibly move a column on the porch etc. I'm afraid it may be cost prohibitive for us, BUT we aren't throwing the idea out w/o finding out b/c I really like it!

Rhome - Thx for the pics. I thought bringing the sink forward in the cab might help(plus I love farm sinks), but I see what you're saying.

Making the changes to the windows and doors may not be too bad because the necessary headers are already there for two of them (one window is becoming a door and one door is becoming a window?). Of course, the new doors and windows themselves could be expensive, unless it's possible to just do a swap. Rhome's plan is great; it just looks so period and invitin) so may be worth waiting a year or two to do if it's not in the budget now.

would it help with the window issue if in Rhome's plan you switched the sink and the range? Could you then place the sink under the existing window? Sorry...I'm sort of getting turned around with where the window is. Then, you'd also be going from frig, to sink, to range. Might be a little tight on the range side, not sure what size you're planning.

I guess only you know what's on the porch side that will interfere with changing that window to a door, but as others have said, the header is already there. Shouldn't be that big of a deal.

One of the great advantages of Rhome's plan is that it gives you one entire wall without a door. When I first moved in here I thought I wanted a side yard door on my one un-doored kitchen wall, but that made putting in any kind of workable kitchen impossible. Your case isn't as extreme--you have a couple of possible plans that work, but the flow is so much improved in Rhome's plan, besides the whole character of it.

Question: You said you use the laundry room as a mudroom. How muddy is it? Is it just a place to dump garden boots and muddy playclothes? Or is it where all outerwear, backpacks, etc., go? Will the changes you're making to the other entry work for an alternative mudroom area? If it weren't a matter of budget, could you enclose all or part of that DR porch?

Do you use the laundry room for anything else that you'd be losing? A sewing area maybe?

If you really can be happy with a laundry room half the size, not only does the pantry add lots of organized storage space, you could even make it into something of a scullery, with a sink and DW. Or you could put a freezer in there. If you have a vegetable garden, you could wash them right there, if you put in a sink, and prep them for canning, then store the results in the same pantry. It could be really great!

So, I'll add my endorsement of what has been said before: Do the structural stuff now, and upgrade the finishes when you get there.

Why would you have to move the column on the porch? Isn't there room to walk around it? If it's just kind of in the way, but mostly aesthetic, you could put that on the eventually list.

What if (and here is where I wish I were a wiz with the drawing programs): You left the exterior door as is (to cut down on the cost, and becuase I think it could work with it in place), moved the laundry room to the wall that I suggested the banquette corner might go, and opened up the wall between the Laundry room and kitchen (as wide an opening as you can, which will leave about 2-3 feet on either end for support of that wall). Banquette (or a little mini-office) in the nitche that would be created (under the windows) maybe?

What this would do: eliminate one doorway into the kitchen space, open it up a huge amount, and put the laundry/mudroom right between the back door entrance and the kitchen, give you almost two full length uninterupted walls (with a lot of natural light) and allow for one large island (or maybe two smaller ones?) in that great space.

If you do decide to go for the banquette in the smaller space, the roll out that I suggested could fit to the left of the door (where the dishwasher was in the original plan). If the cooker and sink were swapped, the pull out would be very handy as a temporary island between the 2.

Thanks to everyone for all of the encouraging comments! I'm just doing a quick check in so I don't really have time to completely absorb.

Cheril - you make some good points
Mahlgold - I'll try messing w/ placement of appliances later tongight
Plllog - The mud room portion of the laundry is used for EVERYTHING - all outerwear backpacks etc. This house lacks storage so the laundry acts as laundry room, mudroom, storage of gift wrap etc.and overflow storage for kitchen. I don't use it for sewing or crafts or anything like that. It would not be feasible to do a mud room at the DR entry for many reasons, but thx for thinking outside the box! I just assumed the columns on the porch would need to be moved, but think you are right - it is mostly aesthetic and therefore could probably wait.
Rubyfig- Sounds like you have another interesting idea. I can't figure it all out right now but will draw it out tonight!

I found this post this morning and read through everybody's comments. What an amazing and talented group this is. All day (just once in a while, not non-stop) I've been thinking about the options people suggested and decided to add my $0.02.

You live in an old house that you love. In looking at your existing layout, I'd be really hesitant to mess with the dining room doors, even to widen the one. Right now, the dining room has a lovely balance. I think the less you mess with the original rooms, the better.

I love, love, love rhome's layout. It seems so right for the space. A walk-in pantry would give you tons of storage, and pantries and old houses just go together naturally. Plus, you'd end up with a laundry room that's sized to be a laundry room. It wouldn't morph into extra storage for whatever just because there is extra room.

That being said, I have one possible tweak to rhome's plan: if you swap the placement of the laundry and pantry, make the laundry just a little bigger and the pantry a tiny bit smaller, you could have a combined laundry/mudroom by the back entrance and eliminate foot traffic through your pantry.

I'm a fellow old house owner/lover. I think there are a lot of us on this forum. I hope that when you're done, you end up with a kitchen space that you love as much as I do mine (completed almost a year ago, and there's almost nothing I'd change).

I also would like to chime in and say I agree with arlosmom in that I love rhome's layout but I would also switch the laundry room with the pantry. As suggest I would make the laundry room bigger and the pantry smaller. You could have pegs for coats by the back door and/or a place to hang/store brooms etc. You would also have a place for people to kick off their dirty shoes without them trailing this into the kitchen. The doorway means they would have to pass thru the kitchen but the way it is configured they would not be inteferring with the cook or dishwasher. Your pantry would still be large enough to hold alot of items.

I'm not trying to speak for Inlauren, but I'd like to point out that the entry from "Outside" is the one by the current laundry room door (I think!), and the one from Rhome's proposed pantry goes to the little used porch/patio. Doors leading from outside, dining room, and laundry room are major traffic ways. Door leading to porch/patio is a minor traffic way.

The question is, if the entry by the cellar stairs is the best one for coats and backpacks, is there enough room to put pegs and cubbies in a smaller laundry room and still have enough good space for doing laundry? The alternate storage for the kitchen function would be transferred to the pantry. Depending on what the other needs are, I can envision a counter over the laundry equipment (possible a drop down on hinges, if a permanent one isn't wanted) that works as a laundry folding station as well as a gift wrapping surface, with a long shallow cupboard against the wall over it containing doweling for paper and ribbon.

BTW, I heartily agree with Arlosmom about not changing the dining room door. I had a dining room that shape once, in a 1930's era place, that I absolutely loved. The two doorways in line defined the space beautifully. It's still my favorite dining room.

The factors Plllog mentioned are what I took into account when deciding which should be pantry and which should be laundry...Plus, not only is the laundry closer to the more often used back door, but people don't have to tromp through the working part of the kitchen with their dirty laundry...It is more easily accessible/a straighter path for the whole household.

Thanks again everyone for all of your thoughts. We are working on some different versions of Rhome's plan tonight. I just want to clarify a couple of things.

Arlosmom and Joanr - Thanks for your input and the idea of switching the pantry and laundry, but Plllog is right. The "outside" entrance is by the current laundry room door. All this back and forth about changing the layout is confusing!

Plllog - I think we can make the smaller laundry room work. We're working on a more detailed sketch tonight to see how things might fit in.

There is one thing that I need to clear up for everyone re: widening the kitchen door. If we widen it, it will actually end up matching the living room doorway exactly. The living rm door way is 78" w/ knee walls. The current kitchen doorway is centered in the larger living room doorway. I apologize b/c it was misrepresented in the layout I posted.

I would still like to know what you all think about the dimensions in the island plan. Would it work? Is the squeeze too tight?

The aisles sizes, don't worry me a lot, but the conflict of the dw door with fridge or range could be an aggravation. I wouldn't want to move the dw into the kitchen work area, personally, but keep it and the dishes to the other side of things. It's not the doors that are the problem as much as the people trying to work at each space when the doors are open.

Where will you store dishes in the island plan? It seems the most natural place is in the pantry cabs on the left?

Did you say where you might have a microwave? A toaster or toaster oven? The coffee pot and mixer? Room for the twins when they're 12-20 and have friends over? :-) (Will they be 6'4", 250 lb linebackers or 4'10", 90 lb ballerinas?) With any plan you're considering, you'll want to map out where things will go in the cabinets and on the counters...Maybe draw lines in different colors to outline different paths for different tasks.

Rhome - I appreciate your feedback on the aisles and general layout of the island plan. All your questions are really good ones - most of which have not been answered at this time. (With the exception of linebackers vs. ballerinas!) I just was looking for an idea of whether the plan was workable before spending more time on it.

I was trying to say that it's difficult to really say if it's 'workable' until you know the answers to those questions. :-) To me those were integral pieces to the design of a plan and I thought about them first, rather than last. (Hope this doesn't sound critical, because I honestly don't mean it that way)

Rhome - Doesn't sound critical at all. We're just coming at the same thing from 2 different directions!

I like rhome's drawing a lot, but I also liked the island plan pretty well before I saw the other one. I think it is workable, but I would consider moving the DW to the other side of the sink. DWs and fridges tend to be open during clean up time, so I see that as the area of larger conflict, but that's also an easy change.

What if you tried combining the ideas -- moved the exterior door but left the laundry room/mudroom/pantry long rather than divided. I'd make that center wall longer and move the opening on the right so that you have an L-shaped cabinet run for the sink and range and a longer center wall for the fridge and tall storage. I can see that kind of layout working well with a semi-fitted kitchen look too. If you need doors to close that area off, I'd make the pocket doors so you don't lose any swing space and maximize the laundry room. Stack a W&D if you want to try to open up the space (or put them under a counter if that space is more usable for you), put in some hanging space and hooks or lockers and give yourself some shelving or cabinets for kitchen overflow.

I definitely think the island plan could work. A previous poster suggested switching the DW to the other side of the sink, and that had been my reaction too. I like the short distance between the stove and the sink. In that plan, would you do anything with the wall that divides the kitchen from the DR? Open shelving? Shallow cabinets?

I prefer seeing walk-in pantries rather than islands in old houses, but that's my own inner demon. i think the island version could be wonderful...the layout seems very functional.

I am late to the party here... but my first thought when I saw the whole house layout was to do exactly as rhome suggested. That walk-in pantry would be fabulous. And you don't have to take down any load bearing walls, just add a doorway (very simple, just need properly sized door header.) You can also use some of the pantry to store stuff you use on the patio, out of sight. Love the banquette in the corner, too. If your house is older, it also seems more appropriate to an older home's character.

Lascatx - I think you're right - on the island plan the DW does need to be moved. I also initially liked your idea of simply moving the exterior door and leaving the laundry. After thinking about it, I'm concerned about the flow of traffic through the laundry- especially if we were entertaining on the patio.(taking food out etc)

Arlosmom and Staceyneil - It is always a difficult job figuring out what is going to do an old house justice! Thx for your input. Arlosmom - On the island plan I don't think there is enough room on the DR wall for any cabinets, but I think I could do a built in bookshelf for cookbooks etc. and maybe a couple of extra stools. (on the side going out to the patio)

I am going to throw one more into the mix. I really like Rhomes plan too with the separation of the laundry and the pantry, but to do that, you are giving the windows to the laundry and the pantry instead of the main part of the kitchen (which to me would be a big deal. maybe not so much for you).

Here is another really rough idea. I didn't put in the placement of the fridge, etc., beceuse I can't tell how much space is between your windows. In the overall plan it looks like you have space to the left of the bank of windows in the main bit of the kitchen, but in the details it doesn't, so this may or may not work, but here you go:

{{!gwi}}

And the U shaped banquette on the far end I imagine something like this with the placement of the windows and the load wall with the opening:

{{!gwi}}


{{!gwi}}

This would give you an island. Maybe something like this:

{{!gwi}}

As I said, we did something similar with the load wall.

This was the tear down (you can see the new header in the top right corner of this horrible photo):

{{!gwi}}

And the new opening looks like this (this was before the cabinetry was complete):

{{!gwi}}

This is the larger expanse doing the same thing in terms of opening up a load bearing wall in our LR (keep in mind my ceilings are just under 8 feet so the headers would be less noticable in your space):

{{!gwi}}

I just thought seeing these might help. :)

Rubyfig,

The number of pictures you find to illustrate your points is amazing! I am a very visual person so you have been a great help. I tried sketching this design out last night but never quite got it right. Now I can see exactly what you were thinking. You make a good point @ the windows- I had not thought of that previously.

Not trying to be a wet blanket--Rubyfig's plan is clever-- but I don't think you can get a comfortable U shaped booth and table for four into 7' of width. I also think that 5' wide is too narrow for a laundry room/mud room combo, and the wall there will crowd the dining room door.

Though I agree on light--the angle of the light coming in my east kitchen window was important to me-- laundry rooms without windows are miserable. I have one! I know! I take the clothes into the kitchen to look for spots, by the sliding door because fluorescents just don't cut it. And no matter what, it's sad in there without a window.

Something you might also consider is putting a fixed pane window into the wall where the cellar stairs are to let in light from the window there. It could look funky and charming.

inlauren, do you have a roll of blue tape? I think maybe taping out some of these dimensions on the floor in the rooms might help you "feel" them out.

For reference, the DR/LR combo you see with the arch measures 7' x 16', and the room you see with the water heater (that used to be my laundry/water heater room) measures 5' x 8' and also functions as a walkway (and I thought you had something like 5'8" plus that space by the stairway between the storm door that I thought would be a natural for coat hooks). Obviously I can live with those dimensions, but I also have a teeny tiny house so every fraction of an inch counts (and I traded away the laundry "room" for a better flow in my own kitchen, so take that into consideration. That little "nook" houses the fridge, W/D, wrapping paper and general stuff, a wine fridge, a cabinet holding the laundry stuff, the dog leash and treats, kitchen towels and probably a bunch of stuff I haven't remembered to mention. It works hard :) ).

What would work for me might have been pllog's nightmare, so maybe it is time to figure out the linebacker vs ballerina question.

In the end only you and your family can say which trade-offs are worth it.

Plllog and Rubyfig - Sorry! We were out of town for a couple of days and I didn't see your posts until now.

Thank you both for your input. I think you both make good points. I posted on this board to see what creative solutions people would come up with and I have been amazed! I also appreciate it when potential flaws are pointed out as well. I think that is the wonderful thing about this forum. You may have to make some "less desireable" choices for your kitchen but at least you go into it w/ your eyes wide open. Rubyfig - We have a roll of blue tape and have been trying out different ideas. As you mentioned, only my family and I can decide which trade-offs are worth it. I don't think we have that one figured out yet, but we are working on it. I'll try to post again when we narrow options. Once again, THANK YOU ALL for the creative ideas and contructive criticism!

One more idea (and this is something you didn't want, but I thought you might like to see an option with a big open space). This plan would house the washer/dryer under the window hidden in cabinets, and a wall of "cubbies" would act as a mudroom (of course, you could close this space off if you didn't want to see the mudroom).

{{!gwi}}

Washer /dryer cabinets under window I imagine something set up like this:

{{!gwi}}

And the mudroom cubbies possibly something like legardhome did (see attached thread).

For whatever reason, I keep seeing a pantry something like this in the far right by the door to the porch:

{{!gwi}}

Ok, That is the extent of what I can think of; but you do have a fantastic space with lots of possibilites :).

Here is a link that might be useful: legardhome cubbies

I really like Rubyfig's latest. The island makes it modern, but it's basically a big farmhouse kitchen. It's a great way to make the traffic pattern go around the work area rather than through it as well. People talked before about taking down that wall, but I needed Rubyfig's sketch to see it. :)

Plllog - Thanks again for continued input.

Rubyfig - I really didn't think I wanted my washer/dryer in a cabinet, but I do like your current layout. You have given me so many creative ideas to consider. I love both the cubbies and the pantry you posted. (Helps w/ my visualization problem!) I'm adding this one to my list of possibilities.

I really like ruby's latest LO. It gives you the bigger kitchen space and island and keeps the laundry, coming/going etc to the left of the room! The wall by the porch door could be flr to ceiling shallow pantry/storage - which you need. and lots of windows/light coming in.

you could even just put double half doors in front of the w/d - letting the light from that window shine in also.

do you even need that 2nd door into the kitchen from the side entry? It looks like there's another door to the cellar. just not having a door there would open it up and let the light from that window shine in. You might want it depending on area of country you live. I remember with one door into a room the snow, wind blowing in etc it would just come straight into the room and you lose a lot of heat - ugh. If it's necessary, I'd put glass in it (if not already).

That is a nice plan, as were the others that took in space from the laundry, but you've been living with the spaces you have and are clearly comfortable with the kitchen as is and, as you say, in love with your laundry room. And, of course, when you have something you love, it would be foolish to destroy it.

It seems to me that you have 3 generally good options that deal with all the issues and still offer workable spaces, the old-fashioned U, and both the plans you posted.

The U's big advantage to me is that it gets the fridge out of the line of sight down your home, the fridge being to a kitchen what the garage door is to the front of a house. It would also allow a charming hutch on the left wall.

The island plan seems the most handsome and is very likeable on paper. Given the fridge issue, keeping the original doorway might be better. Like the U, filling the center with island and stools might have the effect of making the space look a little cluttered and uninviting to walk through, but some careful harmonizing of surfaces could help with that.

The banquette plan keeps the kitchen open and airy and the same for the view into and trafficways through it, and moves the fridge slightly off to the side. The banquette table could be on wheels and pull out for additional work surface when you're really whomping it out. It's hard to say, but verall, I think this might be my choice...

I hope you'll stick around and let people know what you decide and why. So many layout discussions revolve around fairly minor issues, fridge to right or left of stove? and such things. The big question of how one fits a new kitchen into a nice old home while somehow keeping intact what's already there is something a lot of people face. Much more often than not the remodel results in considerable changes to the original structure.

I like bringing all the windows into the kitchen in this last one. If the window is high enough, you might be able to raise the W&D and put drawers for laundry supplies and possibly even dirty clothes. If you do this hidden laundry, you need to look for the hidden telescoping that you can put a cabinet knob on -- you might find a place to put those and be able to pull them out for hanging.

I love the pantry in the photo above. I also like the idea of a window in front of the window in the stairway to the cellar, but that would require a change in the closet/cubbie proposal in the last drawing -- could work if you made adjustments or made that side a banquette -- turn the island.

You've got a lot of great ideas to work with. I'll be interested in seeing this one come together.

desertsteph - Unfortunately we need that 2nd door. Midwestern winters can be cold! The door does have glass in it and lets in a decent amount of light.

Rosie - Thanks for your encouragement. Reading your post, I felt like I could have written it! I view many of the plans in the same way that you do.

lascatx - I agree that windows are an issue for my kitchen. I appreciate your creative ideas re the windows and laundry cabinets.

"Unfortunately we need that 2nd door. Midwestern winters can be cold! The door does have glass in it and lets in a decent amount of light. "

I wondered about that! Growing up in IN and raising my kids there I remember winters very well - still. lol! When I got married we moved into an A frame - the front door was a sliding glass door. So was the back door. Raising 4 kids running in and out in the winter - ugh. The front opened directly into our LR and the back opened directly into our kitchen. Anyone in the room would freeze whenever the door opened in the winter - and for some time after it was shut! Talk about poor planning.

glad it does have glass tho. the light can come in - and you'll have a good view of who is coming thru the outer door.

desertsteph - Sounds like you understand the situation w the doors all too well!