Before I spend time on your layout, can you give an explanation on why the range must be in the island? This is a poor location for a range for several reasons. How are you going to ventilate it? Will you have an exhaust hood over the island ducting through the roof of your log home? Will you have sufficient counter space and clearance around the range in the island? You are kinda hard, cause you say you want help, but you say you and husband are very stubborn, so the message actually reads you don't want help. I apologize for saying this. But people on this forum are generous with their time and advice, and it would be helpful if you weren't stubborn as you put it.

Why do you not want to enclose the mud room more? Continue the wall towards the front entrance between the two rooms and put your fridge on that wall.
If I was cooking/eating/working in a kitchen I wwould not want to be looking into the mudroom.
Suggestions have been made and it looks like none of them have been incorporated into your plan.
You need to go through the proposed suggestions and say why they don;t/won't work.

I think the wall with the two windows where you have put your sink and fridge is calling out for a range and hood instead. I think a range and chimney hood between the two windows would look fantastic. (I believe this is where your stove is now, so it's already plumbed, right?) I suggest that the fridge go on the wall between the kitchen and mudroom, and the sink go on an island that is closer to the stove, with counter seating on the dining room side.

I always hate to comment on designs that I just don't understand, but maybe this post will help you explain what you were thinking in more detail so others can "get" it better than I do?

You love the dividing counter between the mudroom and the kitchen? Please explain. To me it looks like lots of counter that has no relation to the work areas of the kitchen, and a barrier between your kitchen and your tall pantry cabinet (is that for food?). I see the overhang, but not sure why you would want to sit in the mudroom?

I also don't like the sink so far from the range. Why is the range in the island so key for you? Are you open to more plumbing connections i.e. a prep sink in the range's L? If you got rid of the divider counter, you could extend the range's L a bit more, and have more room for work-area counter space and prep sink. (No, that's not compatible with the previous suggestion, but I'm just throwing things out to see what's acceptable to you.)

Aesthetically, the design looks "choppy" to me -- the fridge wall just looks weird. I think it may be the way you boxed in the window?

Between the things you can't change (like windows) and the things you say you love (range placement and that counter overhang area), there's not much you're allowing people to change. You may just have one of those kitchens that fits your life and no one else's?

I know there were a few times that my KD would just shake her head and say, "You're SO not like my typical client..." It's OK to be weird, but if you want feedback, please explain the method to your madness.

Ok, I can see I have some 'splaining to do!

Akchicago, I am sorry I came across as not really wanting help. What I was trying to avoid, was to ask for feedback and then pan suggestions that involve ideas DH and I already considered privately and nixed. I do appreciate very much the time and effort people put into my dilemma and was wanting to make sure I didn't waste anyone's time by failing to include relevant information. I truly apologize for coming across as too inflexible to accept help.

For the range, yes we are planning on a custom copper hood by Modern Aire which will vent out the side wall, the duct can be concealed between the ceiling beams. I want it in the island because I hate cooking with my back to the rest of the house. If the range goes in the island, I can see into the LR which is past the DR, or to each side into the yard and playset or the front door and driveway. It makes it a central location and just with playing around at home pretending to cook in that spot, I love it. Hence my "stubbornness" about the location because I feel it will really work for me and my family. Also my cooktop is now in the island and I just love that.

Blfenton, I have toyed with the idea of walling off at least part of the mudroom and honestly, we just don't like it. One of my favorite things about the house is the very open floorplan, and I want to preserve that. DH would like to bring in some of his smaller projects and work on them in the house while I cook or bake and the counter between mudroom and kitchen would be ideal. I could also feed kids a quick snack, keep an eye on the front door, or put a small table in the mudroom for kids' arts & crafts and be able to watch from the kitchen and DR. Maybe it makes more sense on paper to add the wall, but leaving it open will work better, I believe, for our lifestyle and look better to us as well.

Mcmjilly, the area you mention has a gas fireplace which we never use, but you are right it is already prepped for a gas line. I just don't want to have my back turned on the rest of the house while I cook, and would prefer to place my range in the island. I also don't know where else to put the fridge except along that wall.

I do appreciate the ideas and advice you are all giving me, and realize my preferences make this a real challenge. But, that is why I am posting at all. I know we could do things to make this simpler, but then I wouldn't need you experts would I *grin*? Please help me figure this out without changing those key points!

I have my range oriented so I'm facing away from the action while I am actively cooking, but I find that I spend much more time on prep work than I do at the stove. I think if you have a sink on the island, then most of your prep work will happen there, facing the rest of the house. (Maybe I cook different foods than you do?)

NatalieChantal- Pretty name :) I can totally understand why you want the cooktop on the island. I've been thinking the same thing...do I want to cook with my back to everyone at the island, or in your case, dining room/living room? If you're going to be working at the stove a lot, it would be nice to be able to interact with others and I like the location.

The fridge between the windows makes sense, but I'm not as fond of the sink squeezed in between the windows. Since you already have plumbing in the mud room (I like the open counter, by the way) could you place the sink and dishwasher there? Maybe have the sink facing people sitting at the stools, on the mudroom side? You might need a little wider overhang, but this would give you plenty of room for your baking area, between the sink and fridge and put the sink closer to the stove area.

Your fridge could be centered between the windows and if you can't find a CD fridge you love, it would open up more options for you. The mudroom is wonderful (I need a big one too, living on a farm) and your log home is very charming! Best of luck with your remodel :)

Your current kitchen design is ... unique. ;-) It's your kitchen so my opinion really doesn't matter but I think it's a shame that you're not making use of a great architectural feature: the stone wall between the windows.

So how about this?

{{gwi:2107442}}

I adopted blfenton's suggestion of enclosing the mudroom a bit and moving the fridge to that wall. I also moved that short wall back a bit from where the counter is on your plan so that the window and its light are not blocked by cabinets and fridge. This changes your mudroom a bit but it's generously sized so a half foot shouldn't be a big deal. The MW can go on the counter between fridge and wall or on a shelf above the counter.

I centered the main sink on the stone wall. That wall is calling out for look-at-me treatment, IMO. DW to the left with dish storage in cabinets between DW and side wall.

The removal of the long counter between mudroom and kitchen allows for the expansion of the range island. You go from 15" to 24" to the left of the range. I was also able to increase the depth of that range counter, providing a larger safety zone around it (less chance of someone walking by getting hit by spattering grease).

Lastly I added a prep sink to your prep area. This creates a nice working triangle between fridge, prep area and range and removes the concern about walking 8' from range to main sink with a pot of boiling water.

I also drew up a plan with the range centered on the stone wall - I also think that's an ideal spot for a focal range and copper hood - with the main sink and DW in a 6'x5' island with room for 4 counter stools but it sounds like you won't even consider that, so no point posting it.

The fridge wall isn't really a wall - no framing, sheetrock or whatever. It can be created with cabinets, much like the peninsula you created, just a little taller. ;-) The cabinets do not need to go to the ceiling. In fact, I think that would detract from home's log cabin appeal.

I posted this on your other thread, but I'm not sure if you saw it. It is not a perfect layout, but it doesn't violate any of your restrictions:

It looks like you have about 8' between the 2 windows. The placement of the fridge to the far left of that space with cabinets above the fridge (which are fine) and then additional above-fridge height cabinets hanging out over thin air looks odd to me. I would consider creating a 5' wide tall cabinet that would house the fridge on one side (either side) and the other side would have shelves for the microwave and TO to sit on (one on top of the other) with storage above and below. That would leave you with about 1.5' of wall between the tall cabinet and each window for backsplash and counter space (plus the space under and beyond the windows of course). I would move the sink to one of three places: in the upper left corner so you can look out the other window, in the side of the L that is open to the mudroom, or on the island. The DW should move with the sink. If you put the sink in the upper left corner, then the upper cabinets on the left wall should be moved to the right wall so there is head room over the sink. You could put some narrow shelves above the sink for display/storage if you like.

Since you like the openness of your space, why not go with a galley lay-out with a huge island for your range?

{{gwi:2107443}}

Peninsula is gone. Fridge is to left of window. Main sink centered on stone wall between windows. DW to left with dish storage in drawers to its left. MW can go on a shelf under the counter to the right of the fridge. Plenty of room between sink and fridge for baking projects but they could also take place on the HUGE island you gain by ditching the peninsula.

Yes, HUGE island: 10' long and 42" deep with 32" to left of range, 18" behind it and 54" to right of range for prep, enough room to add a prep sink but that's not as critical since the distance between range and sink has shrunk to about 5'. This island becomes a fantastic work horse feature.

You could add another island in your mudroom area to add craft area/laundry folding area.

Im going to take you at your word that you want the counter between the mudroom and kitchen and you want the range in the island. The one thing I absolutely could not live with is 15" on either side of the range. Way way too little space. Would you consider shortening the counter between the two rooms and lengthening the range peninsula?

Janet_425, I am happy to explain the method behind my madness! That tall cabinet is for the W/D. The dividing counter between the rooms will have an overhang on the mudroom side, so kids can eat snacks, or DH can work on his little projects and use some counter space while still leaving me plenty of counter room as well. I plan to make that my baking area and it gives me space to roll out dough, and let 2-3 kids help me from all sides, or do little science experiments there. It gives me a space to dump groceries to put away, or set out little eatables for when we have BBQs. And it gives mean area to pull up a comfy counter height stool and go through my recipe books and have a beer while keeping an eye on the stove, the laundry, the LR, the yard, and the front driveway, all at once!

Lavendar_lass, that is a neat idea to put the sink in the dividing counter. As it happens, I have already picked out the fridge I want and it is a CD. If I moved the sink, would it need a backsplash? What would I put on the far side of the fridge to make that space work?

Lisa_a, I am likewise intrigued by the idea of moving the fridge without making a wall. Thank you so much for showing it on the picture, it is a nifty thought and I like being able to leave the stonework (although not sure it would be a good water backsplash, but maybe that could get worked out?). How much counter on either side would that give me, though? I assume it would be best not to put it right up against the L of the counter, but by how much? Also, does that eat too much of the counter on the other (open) side? Would I still have room for the uses I plan for it, as I described earlier in this post?

I had no idea just how "unique" this was.... No wonder my GC is telling me he's never done anything like this before!

I'm unclear why you want to move your kitchen to your front door area. Most people prefer walking into a bit more formal, less of a messy workplace.

I'm also unclear as to why you want your range on your island. Its a LOT more expensive set up, and the ventilation is never optimal. All so you can spend 10% of your time facing your guests. 70% of time in a kitchen is spent doing prep, and that's done adjacent to a water source. So unless you can get a usable prep sink onto the island, you'll be spending 90% of your time facing a blank wall.

I think the biggest issues you have is your fantasy kitchen that you have in your head vs. the reality of the space you have for the layout. A kitchen is always a series of compromises, but you have far too many things on which you don't want to compromise---and most of the issues are making your layout work poorly. A kitchen first of all has to function as a production room for food before it's able to serve as a social center. You want outside the box thinking to help you with your layout, but you are unwilling to step outside your own box. It's the GIGO principal from software. Garbage in, garbage out. When you set up certain parameters, you limit yourself to certain results. You're not getting a good layout because you begin the layout with too many restrictions that limit the results to poorly functional layouts.

The KF is all about function and then form. If you prefer form over function and really only care about how your kitchen looks rather than works, then please tell us that. Otherwise people here will give you the benefit of their years of experience on how to create a functional kitchen. We're here to help you, but you have to be open to that help.

An idea for your mudroom/laundry area.

{{gwi:2107444}}

The mudroom/laundry room island would be handy for dropping groceries off when you come in since it's location is close to both pantry and fridge. It would also be useful for folding laundry and craft projects. If you choose to use it primarily for crafts, you'll want to make it an open island (no cabinets, only legs) to provide leg room at it.

I didn't draw it in but you can add overhang to the far right side of the range island for 2 counter stools for a place for your kids to have a quick bite.

Remodelfla pointed out the same thing I noticed: the long peninsula interferes with creating options for your range island set-up. That's why I messed with the peninsula more than the other must-haves on your list.

The fridge area could be set up similarly to the peek-a-boo arrangement around the range shanghaimom's kitchen (see link. Imagine that the cabs only go fridge height, not to the ceiling with crown molding). However, the peek-a-boo is only a good feature if there's something worth peeking at. If you leave your W/D where it's currently placed, you're better off doing cabinets to the counter. Does that make sense?

As for your questions regarding dimensions, I used the same 1 sq = 1 foot as your plans. The fridge is set 12" from the counter overhang. Which style fridge will you get? SxS, single door or French door? Just make sure the door swings the way you want and doesn't bang on the adjacent counter.

The sink is centered between the windows so you have about 32" on each side (depending on size of sink). You should be able to figure it out from there.

Stone backsplash - apply a good sealer and move your sink cabinet about 6" out from the wall. Hmmm, might have to do that anyway since the stone probably isn't flush with the log walls. Please review your dimensions - it will affect the aisle between sink and island. Also check the depth of your stackable W/D. Your current one might not be that deep but new ones are much deeper, not including the air space they require behind them. They can stick out as much as 3' from the wall, not counting cabinetry and doors.

IMO, the galley-type plan seems to serve your needs best. At least as well as I understand them.

LWO asked some very good questions about your motivations for your kitchen remodel.

Here is a link that might be useful: finished! Vintage Cream in the City

First, I like your hobby/homework space...it's in a good location to allow people to be close enough to visit with you without getting in your way, to have enough workspace of their own, and to be extra space for large baking projects, science fair projects, etc. And since you don't want walls b/w the Mudroom and Kitchen, it adds a bit of separation and hides the view of muddy shoes/boots on the floor without closing up the space...I think it's a good idea!

Your hood will look very nice with your space...but I recommend getting it at least 6" wider than your range, at least 24" deep (27" would be better), and a pretty strong fan (900 cfms or more...1200 might be best) so it has a better chance of being able to capture the steam, smoke, odors, grease mist, etc. In an open space like that, there are more and stronger air currents than against the wall and/or in a closed up room. This means the steam, smoke, etc. will spread out much faster and will make it more difficult for your hood to capture it all (it will have spread beyond the boundaries of your hood).

However, here's why no one likes the kitchen part of your layout:

• You have virtually no workspace and very little emergency landing space on one side of the range

The side of the range with no landing space or, for that matter very much safety zone, is right next to what looks to be a busy entry into/out of the kitchen. The Cooking Zone should be the most protected Zone in your kitchen. Remember, you're dealing with very hot food, splattering grease, and flames.
Your range is pretty far from the refrigerator (approx 8')
Your range is pretty far from a water source (8' again)...so that means washing/rinsing veggies and carrying them, dripping (and maybe falling out of your hands) on the floor across the kitchen to get to the range.

It also means carrying a pot of boiling water across those 8'...dodging traffic both in and going through the kitchen (oh, and dodging an open DW as well)
You have very little prep workspace (24") and what you do have is on top of the DW...conflicts just waiting to happen (unless you and your family are very, very well-disciplined to never load or unload the DW while someone is trying to prep in that small space).

Prep Zones work best and usually end up b/w a water source and the range, regardless of what you "plan". In your case, you don't have any water near your range so it will probably end up b/w the sink and refrigerator...and there's really not enough space!

I had 24" b/w my range and sink in my old kitchen and it was one of the #1 drivers behind our remodel (that and the cabinets falling apart.) I hated it! I was always shifting things around trying to find space to work and still have room for my tools/dishes/ingredients. Yes, there was some space on the other side of the sink, but the DW was there and it was usually being used while I was prepping (someone always seemed to need to put something in or...

I am terrible at layout, so I am not going to attempt yours. But, about the range-in-the-island thing. I agree with the other posters who said it's a poor idea. I think people have romantic ideas of cooking on an island, with friends and family sitting at the island with glasses of wine, and sparkling conversation and laughter. This fantasy comes from all those cooking shows on TV, but it simply doesn't work that way in real life. So, back to reality: food that is cooking on the rangetop will splatter; those friends better be sitting far enough away. And what about landing space for your hot pans? Also, island hoods cost at least 20% more than wall hoods, and the ventilation is compromised by the length and turns of ducting required, and the lack of capture with no surrounding walls. So those friends sitting joll-ily around the range while you are cooking may get smoked out. Also, when you open the oven door of the range that is in the island, will it interrupt traffic flow? Yup. Also, as Live Wire Oak astutely pointed out, most food prep time is made up of prep, not of standing over the cooktop. Furthermore--and this is my pet peeve about TV cooking shows--you should be looking down at your pans while they are cooking, not up the way they do on cooking shows. There was a thread (maybe on the Cooking Forum?) that mentioned that the TV cooks have to be specially trained to look up at the camera while cooking, because everyone normally looks down. So your desire to look out while you're cooking isn't realistic.

Re-read Live Wire Oak's post. We really REALLY want to help you on the KF. You are going to be spending a lot of money on this kitchen, it should be one you can work in and enjoy for years to come. Not one where you say to yourself after the kitchen has been completed, "why ON EARTH was I so stuck on that idea? Now I have to LIVE with it for the next umpteen years!"

I agree with everyone's point about no-range-in-the-island, and I think it sounds dangerous with young kids, except that you already have one (with no apparent ventilation) and apparently love it. How do you keep your kids away from such a huge expanse of hotness in the middle of a traffic zone? As a mom who raised kids with a woodstove (with a gate around it) and a range (tucked away in the corner of the kitchen) and STILL had a DD with a bad hand burn, it would scare me to have my back to that island stove for five seconds.

How do you do it????

NatalieChantal- If you know what you want and what works for you...that's half the battle. Since you like the idea of an island countertop...here are a few pictures. Hope they give you some good ideas! Also, here's a link to a sink in an island, with counter behind.

As for you kitchen design, stick to your guns and make this YOUR kitchen! Only you know what you want and although there are many excellent ideas here, take them for what they are....good ideas and possiblities, but not the way it has to be done.

Here's an island cooktop in a cabin...seems like a popular idea.

{{gwi:2105823}}

Here's a few more ideas...this one shows a hood over the island, although not copper.

{{gwi:2105823}}

And this one has the fridge and ovens across from the cooktop. Maybe you could have the fridge with a narrow pantry on each side...or fridge/ovens as in this picture, between the two windows, if the sink works out on the counter overlooking the mudroom.

{{gwi:2105823}}

Here's the link :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Nice pictures of sink with stools

Wow I am having a hard time with some of these answers. The feedback is wonderful, but the harsh rants about my putting form over function and the garbage comment feel very uncalled for. LWO, you apparently did not even read my posts correctly and missed the fact that I am moving my kitchen OUT of my entry. If you are going to criticize, which is, after all, what I asked for, please realize that you know nothing about me and ask before you rip apart motivations you do not understand.

I have no romantic notions about ranges in islands. I have lived in houses with wall ranges and island ranges, with young children, and know that for MY lifestyle, an island range would be ideal. This is based on PRACTICAL considerations and experience, not TV or magazine imagery. Yes, I will have a 30" x 42" hood with a 1200 cfm blower. Regardless of percentages of prep vs. cooking, this is what works for me and is a key element of my design. I have no issues explaining why this is, as you all have valid points as to the drawbacks. LWO, you may have good considerations, but the way you worded them was very hostile and uncalled for. We have different opinions and habits and I expect mine to be treated respectfully too.

Buehl, thank you so much for your thoughtful post. I would love to see a sketch if you have time! I see the point abut the space between sink and stove. Maybe I could put a small prep sink in the island like you suggested? I like that idea a lot. Maybe we could fit my main sink under the left window - do they make corner sinks? - and center my fridge between the windows. Or leave it to the left but put in cabs next to it, and then a stacked TO/MW?

I am not sure that I have room to push that countertop further into the mudroom. As I planned it, the stacked W/D will be against the back wall, and I can't shove it directly again the mudroom sink as I need some cabinet space to store laundry detergent and cleaning supplies. That hampers me a little in the kitchen area. If I put my kitchen sink under the left window, could I put it right against the counter corner, or would that make it very uncomfortable to work at?

Shannonplus2, I do understand that island cooking is not like on TV. But as it is, I cook on my island and look out to check on the kids frequently. The problem is that I have to step away from the stove to do this, since the kitchen right now is in that entry room! It's funny but most of the ideas you all have suggested, mirror my current kitchen layout which is a galley design as Lisa_a sketched above. This remodels coming about more because I need a mudroom and laundry room, plus all the kitchen cabs and appliances are dying or dead, and I don't really care for large rectangular islands, for some reason the L shaped ones work better for me (my mom has the big rectangle and it is too big a stretch across for a shorty like me, but so long that it's not as cozy to work together in the kitchen). So, I am trying to keep what I...

LWO- Garbage in/garbage out is not helpful, and certainly cannot be seen as constructive criticism. IMHO the kitchen forum is here to help people, and I don't think most people (including the OP) found that response at all helpful.

Thank you lavender_lass. I really appreciate your words of encouragement, the pictures you linked, and your sticking up for me! I definitely need the encouragement - I feel like tearing my hair out now over these plans!

All right folks, I think I have a solution! PLEASE tell me you like it!

First, a prep sink placed on end of range island, where it faces the back wall.

Second, move the main sink under the left window. Dish storage in blind corner thingamajig underneath, to use all the corner space and sink cabinet. Trash pullouts can go under the prep sink.

Third, center the fridge between the windows. Short glass cabs above as planned, spanning the wall between the windows. On either side of fridge, under the cabs, a built-in shelf - one for toaster oven, one for microwave - and underneath those, a short shallow cabinet (so sitting on the counter) for spices, kids cups etc. That solves the symmetry issue, gives me dedicated spots for those appliances, which I was hoping for, and I think would look really nice by using that whole wall space. It does eat some counter space, but the counter cabs could be optional, and even with them, I have lots of counter space on the peninsula, the island, and under the right-hand window.

What do you think?

Funny you'd suggest that, I was just coming in to post this idea for you:

{{gwi:2107446}}

I put in an angled sink so that you can still have the peninsula, although shortened to give you more room around the island range. You'd still have room for 2, possibly 3 stools at the peninsula. I didn't center the fridge on that wall. I don't think that's as big a deal with the fridge. I did make the area to the right of the fridge snack central. It was the only purpose I could think to give to an area that is far from prep or clean-up space. Only other idea is to put it a slightly lower counter and make it a baking center.

You might be able to put the DW to the left side of the sink. You'll want to add a 12" wide cabinet between sink and DW so that you can stand at the sink when the DW door is open and still have 15" overhang for a stool at the end of the counter. Then you'd have a nice bank of cabinets for dish storage and all other kinds of goodies between sink and fridge. I like the idea of glass fronted cabinets above the counter to the left of the fridge.

Are you saying you're against a galley-style set-up? I realized when I went back to look at your photos that there's a post in the way of putting the fridge where I placed it. Dang. Sorry for not paying more attention (your drawings aren't the clearest, which is why I missed that first go-round).

NatalieChantal- I think you've come up with some really good ideas. The prep sink will come in handy, and you still have your great countertop between the mudroom and kitchen. The fridge centered between the windows, with the toaster oven and microwave...very creative! :)

Lisa- Nice ideas and I like the way you've tried to incorporate NatalieChantal's wish list. The corner sink is a really good idea, as is the way your plan offers more space around the cooktop.

Lisa_a, thank you for the drawings. I know I am on the right track when my new ideas come closer to what you are coming up with! And it's ok to put the fridge where you did, that's not a post, just the line for my fridge edge. I like the idea of adding a little space behind the range- can I do that with a slide-in? (getting a DCS 36" gas range).

Sallysue_2010, I forgot to answer your question about the kids and the island range. Right now I have an island cooktop, on the other side is the walkway into to rest of house. Maybe because it's a traffic area, but nobody seems to linger too much there? There is some counter on either side so no issues with getting too close that way. I guess I would worry about it more if I didn't have the experience of cooking on an island as I have for the past 4 years, but it just isn't a problem. Actually it will be safer in the new set-up, because the back of the range won't be a main walkway so the kids are not going to be running back and forth across there while I cook. Plus I have the chairs to block off that area if I were really concerned, and my guess is it will be safer for the kids to sit on the DR table and watch the cooking from afar, than the current trying to lean over and peek while I cook. And now that I think of it, I never or incredibly rarely fry foods so there's not a whole lot of spatter when I cook.

I really like the new ideas for setup and will try to sketch it up legibly later today so you can see it!

Yes, you can put counter and filler cabs behind a slide-in range. arc1017 did just that for her island range. See the link below.

So the fridge can go where I placed it in the galley-style lay-out? Does that plan interest you at all? Other than not having the peninsula, it seems to fill all your other needs and it does make the best use of your space. The L-shaped lay-out you are set on leaves an awful lot of empty floor space that could be counter and storage. That said, the new versions fix a number of the issues your original plan had, primarily not matching long stretches of counter and storage with the work areas of the kitchen.

Here is a link that might be useful: arc1017's Kitchen