Do you plan to put a table in the "table area" or do you plan to extend the island into that area instead?

Can you put a prep sink in the island? Have you already ordered the cabinets? If so, could you order an additional 18" sink base for a prep sink?

I have already ordered my cabinets, so I don't think I can get an additional 18" base cabinet because of the end panels. That is why I could not move the microwave to the island. I do plan on putting a table in the area. I could ask if I could. Were you thinking of putting the prep sink on the end near the range? I am getting a pot filler.

Would you be able to switch the fridge and pantry to the wall where the range is and move the range and the cabinet to the right of it to the fridge wall? The space is about the same -- first questions are what you can do with that corner to the left of the range (possibly order an upper or create shelves or a niche to come down to the counter and create a tall wall) and what it would take to deal with ventilation, water and power (gas/electricity). You could modify a drawer or rollout base to be a sink base and put in a prep sink -- if you can run water to it. have the fridge drawers and sink face the range. Then you have zones -- food storage on the tall wall, cooking and prep on the range side and cleanup on the sink side and the island can support any of them.

I happen to think that, if you can work the power, water and venting issues, it would work pretty well -- we have a similar setup. ;-)

My end panel (open shelves on other end of the island) came separate, but I have 2 cabinets back to back and the larger panel covers the seam. You might ask if yours is built onto the cabinet -- or you could put an extra cabinet in between two you have ordered already.

Venting could be a problem, we ordered a 48" Wolf built in hood system with an external blower system. The wall with the refrigerator and pantry is the garage wall. Where the range is now located is an outside wall.

My vent is on an interior wall with the formal living room behind it. We were able to run the duct up to the ceiling and make a single turn to go across over the room to the outside wall and have the external blower sitting on the roof there. The garage should allow you an easier exit than that if there isn't anything above it.

Our bedroom is above the garage. If I move the range to the garage wall then I would have to put a sink in the island. Also, I really wanted the range and custom hood to be the focal point when you walked into the kitchen. I need to find an island design that is narrow on one end, then widens at the opposite end that would allow seating for 3.

It looks to me like you've kind of boxed yourself in. The island will either be a barrier between the two sides of the kitchen or between the kitchen and the table area. The space is difficult to work with. I would have wanted to rework or relocate the laundry somehow.

I would put the prep sink on the island on the refrigerator side. The island will most likely be the biggest "barrier" b/w the sink & refrigerator.

That Laundry Room will be a problem...since you need at least 36" b/w that corner & the island (and preferably 42" b/c you'll be taking baskets full of laundry in/out of the room), your island will need to start lower and cannot go into the table area.

Did you plan to have a horizontal or vertical island? How about a "T"?

BTW...while your cabinets may total 75", with the countertop overhang (1" to 1-1/2"), you'll really have an island approx 77-1/2" long (6'5-1/2", figure 6'6" to be safe). This same overhang also applies to your wall runs.

Here are some ideas to get the ball rolling...

[New cabinets in bright green]

Layout #1

Layout #2

Layout #3 (eliminate table & have island seating for 5...will only work if there's a separate DR for more traditional meals)

Thank you buehl, I really wanted a sink in the island, but could not see how that would work well. The small wall on the left is the doorway to the basement. Would love to move it, but there is no place else for the stairs to go. Plus DH is at his limit on the budget, the stairs would send him over the edge. I will either go with #1 or #2. Although I love #3, I need my table when all 5 boys come home with extra people! On #2 is that a cabinet under the sink?

Yes, it's an 18" sink base. The triangular corners could be corner shelves for displaying items or for cookbooks or some such.

It would have been nice if you could use a 36" corner sink base for more storage underneath, but, as you can see in the pic below, it won't fit.

So, your best bet, I think is to stick w/the 18" standard sink base and get (or build) shelves to fill in the triangular corners (see red ovals). The advantage of this configuration is that you can have more than one person in front of the prep sink, if needed.

If you don't need all the seats at the table all the time and you don't use the French Doors that much, you might consider this arrangement for your table...it helps a little w/traffic, I think.

We use the french door all of the time, so the table will have to stay where it is. What do you think about scaling down #3. Place the new 18" sink base and 21" cabinet against the 21" existing cabinet. Then the 15" overhang? It would give me the look of #3 and still give me room for the table when needed.

Buehl,
You are amazing. You have the most creative brain.
I wish I had used your ideas before I started
my own reno.

Good Luck VA Kitchen, We used to live in great falls VA.
I miss it so much.
boxerpups

If you mean put the new 18" & 21" against the back of the existing 21" cab...you really cannot b/c you need the aisle space there. With the Laundry Room right there you need room not only for entering/exiting, but for maneuvering w/a laundry basket full of clothing.

You would have barely a 33" aisle...

We are going with the #1 layout. I am calling the KD and hopefully we can make the changes, they start my kitchen on the 27th and the cabinets will be delivered on June 1st. I am hoping they can just wait on the 3 additional cabinets for the island. I know that will be the last thing they place. Since they are custom cabinets I don't know how long it will take them.

Buel came up with some good ideas -- I would like #1 with the sink not on the end -- switch those two cabinets or #2. They put the sink in a better place for supporting work at and near the range and I found it good to have at least some space (10-12" or more)on either side of the sink. That sink is a key to creating work zones that coexist rather than having a great barrier.

I was looking at this last night and may not have been counting on the monitor right -- but I wasn't coming up with anything I thought helped.

LOL Lascatx! I kept going back on forth on the sink location last night for that very reason! I finally drew it up on the end b/c it gave a better expanse of contiguous counterspace with it on the end (top of island) plus it gave easy access to the sink from two sides.

It's up to VAKitchen, but I think either location will work...

I called the KD, not very happy with me, she said it would take 4-6 weeks to get the additional cabinets. She was also not sure if the plumbing could be done. I guess I will find out on Tuesday. I would think they could do something temporary in the island until the cabinets arrived??

Why can't the plumbing be done? They should be able to get all the plumbing installed and have it ready for later a hook up. That's what they did in my kitchen...both sinks had the plumbing setup and then months later the cabinets, etc. were installed and plumbing hooked up.

Main Sink location:

After tile 3 weeks later (main sink on the right, prep sink far left):

It then sat that way for the next 2-1/2 months or so.

+++++++++++

Your KD is probably not happy that you changed her design and went against her advice. Oftentimes, KDs forget it's not their kitchen, it's their client's OR they think they know better than you possibly could. Another reason could be that she has her own schedule and you just messed her up...too bad, this is your kitchen and you have to live with it. When it's done, she walks away and doesn't have to live with it and work in it...but you do. [And don't forget that she works for you, not the other way around!]

Stand Firm! Don't let her talk you out of it. If she starts throwing excuses at you telling you it can't be done, tell her to find a way to do it... I also found w/my kitchen remodel that to some extent my KD and to a much greater extent my Contractor always looked for the fastest way out of doing something....they'd tell me it was impossible and when I refused to accept that, they'd eventually came up w/a solution when they realized I wasn't going to give in to them. Mind you I didn't always agree w/their solution...but at least they started thinking instead of sticking to the knee-jerk reaction of "it can't be done"! [On at least one occasion we ended up going w/an outsider to fix a problem our Contractor obviously didn't want to deal with.]

That brings up another tactic sometimes used by Contractors and KDs...if they don't want to do it, they inflate the cost so you'll say no. If you think that's happening, tell them you're going to get other opinions and then do it. Put a "stop work" order into effect and do it... When they realize their schedule is going to suffer b/c of their stubbornness or lack of creativity, they may back down or they may let you go ahead with an outsider. (Yes, your remodel will be delayed, but trust me, better a few weeks of delay than a kitchen that's difficult to work in/with for years to come.)

In our case it was plumbing & venting to the outside...in both cases we were told they couldn't do it...

First, they told us it would be impossible to vent outside b/c a shower drain on the second floor was in the way and couldn't be moved. When I refused to accept it, they told me it would cost $4,800 to reroute a shower drain pipe & associated drain vent to allow outside venting. I didn't believe them and got 3 additional estimates...they all ranged from a low of $550 to a high of $1400. We went w/the middle one of $950.

They then said there wasn't room b/w the ceiling joists for the 8" vent. I mentioned converting to a rectangular vent that would fit...they claimed there wasn't one. So, I went to the Vent-A-Hood site and showed them the one I needed...they said no more.

Then they told me there was a problem w/getting outside b/c of the 2-foot 2nd floor overhang... At this point I pretty much just had to give them "the look" and they stopped talking and found a way to do it!

There were a few other, smaller incidents like this, but by that time they knew I wasn't going to meekly accept whatever they told me.

All I asked was that they think of real solutions to problems...then present me w/what they think the solution is and the cost and I would then decide on a go/no go. There were even a couple of times when I agreed w/them about not doing something...tell me why something can/cannot be done and prove to me you've tried to come up w/a solution and I actually am reasonable!

BTW...I did something similar...only probably worse...my KD thought we were ready to order cabinets and I put a hold on the order (we hadn't signed off on the design or paid anything yet)...I wanted a total redesign of my kitchen! She wasn't too happy w/me either! In the end, though, she agreed it was better...but at first she was a little cranky about it! [I ignored the crankiness knowing that I was messing with "her baby" (the design) and figured she just needed time to adjust...I was right.]

I hope this has helped you to stand firm and get the kitchen you want and will love for years to come!

Good luck!

I have already decided that they are going to do design #1! Thank you for the encouragement, you are correct that she is concerned about the job being completed on time. I have already paid 1/3 of the bill, the second installment is due Thursday and the final when the job is completed. I had asked about a pocket door in my laundry room early on in our design. She said it would be too difficult, I found someone to do it and what a difference in the laundry room (if you can call it that). Also, I noticed that you put tile down all over the floor, I was told they would lay tile to the cabinets and only under the island and the range. Should you tile the complete floor? Or is it okay just to put the Durock under the cabinets?

It's OK, but if you ever change your layout you'll have to find a way to match the floor tile. It's also nice to know that I have tile under the refrigerator, sink, and DW if there's ever a water leak. We've had two DW issues in the 14 years we've been in this house that involved water running under the cabinets on either side of the DW, probably for days, before it made its way out into the open where we saw it. Back then, we had a vinyl floor and thank goodness vinyl, like tile, is not damaged by water!

We also had a leak in the powder room, but that was more in the cabinet than on the floor, I have to admit.

We're on well water that is somewhat acidic and I think it does a number on plumbing, especially copper pipes...which is one reason we don't have many copper pipes in our house!

Just make sure the flooring is all one height...i.e., be sure they build up the flooring to the finished tile height where there is no tile. I think most contractors use plywood to build the floor up when they don't put the finished flooring under the cabinets.

I just found a recent thread discussing flooring and cabinets...

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: Should the floor go under the cabinets?

Thank you for all the helpful information. I marked the layout of the island on the floor last night and it will work out very well. I will have my prep sink, extra storage and a bigger island!!

Thank you all for your help, I had to go with Layout #2. I now have my plumbing roughed in for the prep sink. The KD agreed after all was setteled that I did need a prep sink with such a big kitchen! The cabinets will be delivered on Monday. My next problem is placing my pendent lighting. I bought two pendents that measure 12 1/2' W x 19' to 49' H for my island plan.

Here is a link that might be useful: Single Light Pendant

Sorry, the link did not work, hopefully this time!

Here is a link that might be useful: Island pendent

Nice pendant! I think I would hang them over the seating end.

If you're getting recessed lights, be sure one is placed directly over the prep sink for task lighting there...our KD designed it that way and, at first, I thought it was strange b/c it's not in line with the other lights; but now I'm glad she did as it lights up the prep sink perfectly! The can is over the sink itself, not in the aisle. Oh, and the can over the prep sink is on it's own switch since you only need it when working at the sink. The other cans light up the kitchen overall w/o needing the one over the prep sink. (We also have 3 cans over our main/cleanup sink, also on their own switch.)

Unless you plan to get more pendants for the other end/side of the island, I would see about having recessed cans over that area as well...i.e., over the island, not in the aisle.

(Lights over the aisle cast shadows on counters when you're working at the counters. If you have undercabinet lighting then it isn't as big a deal since the UC lights will provide the task lighting. But, if you only have the recessed, you need to think about where to place the cans so they light up your work areas even when you're standing in front of the counters.)

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1846556}}

We are getting recessed lights that are placed on each side of the island and task lighting under the cabinets also recessed lights over the main sink. The island with the overhang will be approximately 7' 6". I had planned 3 pendent lights over the island, KD thought 2 would do, but now I have the L shapped I may need the extra pendent. I am putting a 50 1/4w x 29"-77"h billard/island light over the table. The electrician has marked all the areas for the cans, but I can still pick out an area for 3 pendents. I am sure I can get another can over the prep sink, but it will cost me as I am reminded everytime I make a change.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1846557}}