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Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Posted by 2LittleFishies (My Page) on
Thu, May 24, 12 at 11:00

I know the difference but would LOVE to see photos of both!

Long story short, the custom cab guy we planned to use is now unavailable to do our project due to our time frame changing over the past several months.

Anyway, one of the new guys we're interviewing who is a PA custom cabinet maker quoted us a price for beaded inset. He said if we do overlay or regular inset it will save us about $2000.

Unfortunately he is more $ than our original custom guy but based on the quotes we've received so far (including several months back) our original guy was very LOW so I don't expect to find that price again. : (

The kitchen is 16' x 16'. We have 45 feet of base cabinetry and 30.5 feet of uppers. His quote was about $35,000 including all the bells and whistles. Our original guy was $25,000 for full overlay but months back all the other quotes we got were 33,000-40,000--- some custom- some semi-custom.
We still have two more custom quotes coming in this week.

Here is our inspiration kitchen... again...

kit-yel-brocadewallpaper-435

Inset and Beaded Inset Pictures would be great and any thoughts on pricing... We're in NJ btw...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I live in Southeastern PA and am wondering who your custom cabinet maker is? I would like to get a quote from a custom cabinet maker and have one name but some others would be great! We are probably a two months away from starting our addition and several months from when we need the cabinets finished. Who was your original guy?


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I can't answer the inset question, but did you get a quote from Dutch Wood? If you haven't, I would! Check the forum threads about them- me and Bee and several others have done/are doing Dutch Wood Kitchens.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

When I have the $$ put together, I buy beaded inset from Conestoga. Granted, I'm putting them together, but it makes them occasionally affordable for me.

Just a thought. I am addicted to, in rapture with, my beaded inset!

Love your inspiration photo. I've seen it a few times and it's gorgeous.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I was just going to say...ask Beagles because her cabinets look great! :)


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Also try signature cabinetry for full overlay instead of inset. Look at this link on houzz they did such a great job doing this kitchen, they are also in PA. I also priced out omega but they turned out to price in the low 30k too and their cabinets had a high sheen. I finally settled on Crown Point but you do not get all the bells and whistles for that price, just a basic kitchen. I know you save $$ not doing beaded inset.

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen with full overlay


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I priced out Kahale's when I was cabinet shopping and while there was an upcharge for inset, beaded and plain were the same.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Thanks very much! So funny b/c I have pics of Beagles and Bee's cabs put aside b/c I love them : ) I'll definitely check into Dutch Wood. Is there a contact person I should call?

I think my inspiration is inset, but not beaded? I think Bee's cabinets are beaded (buy not inset). If you have beaded inset, would it then be overkill to have a bead on the door as well??? Is that done (often)?


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I just asked The CabinetJoint.com how much extra I was paying for the beaded element on the few cabinets I've purchased. He said it was between $4 and $15 dollars a cab.

Hardly an upcharge in the face of upcharges!!


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Thanks!

Looked at a bigger pic and my inspiration IS beaded inset : )


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Does Dutch Wood have a website? I don't see anything but did find this... Is this them? Is there another site? : )

http://web.me.com/illustra_graphics/Illustra_Graphics_%26_I._G._Publishers_Graphic_Design_And_Audiobook_Publisher/Brochure_Design_Page_Layout_files/Dutch Wood Brochure MedRes.pdf


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Try e-mailing Beagles...or the info might be on the post, when Bee's cabinets were delivered. Wasn't that a few weeks ago?


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Ok, I saw on another post where they are in PA. This is the same place. I'll call tomorrow and get more info : ) Thanks!


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Dutchwood email is jason@dutchwood.net

Jason High is the guy we all dealt with I think.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Yep, tell Jason you are from GW. This way he can be prepared for another TKO customer! lol

Dutch Wood is family business. They are great to deal with. They are in Myerstown, PA.

Finestra, yours are the pale blue cabinets right? Did you know Jason is going to do an island in the showroom in that color?

My cabinets are full overlay "with little cabinet showing" is how they are described. They have a little groove need the edges of the doors. Lots of things are included in their base price (plain glass is not an upcharge, utensil drawer included, tilt outs under the sink, the insides of the cabinets are painted if you do painted cabinets, and so on). I was also able to ask for other Amerock hardware that he didn't have on display and I got it without an upcharge.

DSC_0038


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Fishies- I'm sure you've seen this picture, dozens of times...and it's a little fancier than your very cute (but still slightly fancy) cottage style. But, I wanted to show you the plate rack, glass uppers and especially the open shelves. It looks like a wider board in the back...would that work in your space?

From Cottage house plans


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Thanks, Bee! I saved a few of your photos! LOVE them! If we do full overlay I think those are just beautiful! So many options, but once we find someone I can go though all the options with them. Just curious-- did you not want inset based on the style you're going with, price?, or something else? I feel like the vibe of our "cottagey" inspiration photo goes with inset...

lavender- yes, definitely fancy, but yes the wider board may work! I'll keep it in mind : ) (so much up there!) lol


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

"The kitchen is 16' x 16'. We have 45 feet of base cabinetry and 30.5 feet of uppers. His quote was about $35,000 including all the bells and whistles. Our original guy was $25,000 for full overlay but months back all the other quotes we got were 33,000-40,000--- some custom- some semi-custom. "

I still can do your kitchen for 25,000. price. Do you see now how great a deal i was giving you.the inset would have only been 20% more


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

ihelpu- I don't know you.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

oooo.
Not the place, ihelpu.

20% more? That's still wayyyyy unnecessary.

JMO!


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

2LittleFishies ours are full overlay. We didn't decide that based on price- I just liked full overlay. We did inset in two of our bathrooms. I think there was a small upcharge for the inset, but I don't remember how small. I'm not even sure what beaded inset is or how it differs from regular inset.

If you have any questions I can answer about Dutch Wood I'd be happy to. They did the cabinets for our whole house (and there are cabinets everywhere!)


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I got my inset cabinets at Blue Mountain Woodwork in Bath, Pa. They came and installed too. Great to work with and good prices compared to tri state area dealers.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blue Mtn


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Our cabs are inset and beaded. Your prices seem reasonable. Our pricing didn't have a large upcharge for beaded this was not the case on other quotes we recieved. I am in NH. We had Brian Eagen Custom Cabinentry build our cabs. I have no regrets. As you will see in our photos, we are still a work in progress. I decided I was going to finish the cabs myself. I will not tackle that again. I have no regrets as they are coming along wonderfully. It's just a huge project. I am painting the island. We are thinking a burgundy like color, but we are up for suggestions.
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I just realized we need to take new pix. All the perimeter cabs and wet bar are finished. I just have the island to paint and other small finish work.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Step away from the beaded inset. First, some people who have them complain they're harder to clean.

More importantly, your house never had any parlor maids in corsets in it. Beaded is too fussy for your house. Go cleaner and simpler.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

How about just inset? (not beaded )


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

2littlefishies--I am weird about inset. I love them. I love to look at them. But there are a couple of things that made me not want them--

*It would drive me nuts to be able see the shelves through the front. No matter how good your cabinetmaker is, this has be there, right? Or is that something beaded inset fixes?

*The decreased amount of room inside since the door sits inside the frame

*To get hidden hinges, I only saw gigantic hinges which seemed to suck up more real estate inside.

Now, these are just things I saw. I truly do love the look of them. But, I didn't want to be paying a premium for something I didn't really love. I was able to get the full overlay and have them done in a way so that little cabinet front was showing. This worked for me.

You may recall that the first cabinet maker I dealt with said the prices for full overlay and inset were the same. He told me his shop was set up to do inset therefore I would not really receive any lower price for doing full overlay. That was just about when I walked away. I have a lot of cabinets. I wasn't asking them to make me one cabinet. That guy has actually now made the builder angry over something else. I think he is skating on thin ice at this point.

And those doors I picked? Had I gone with the first guy, those doors would have been $10k over my DW price. I kid you not. (he told me that with that groove they are harder to paint). I think if add up all the "extras" I got from DW (drawers, furniture style toe kicks, truly custom cabinet to fit my stages sink, etc) I think my kitchen would have been $20k more easily. In fact, I wouldn't even get the variety of paint colors to choose from with the first guy, those were extra. AND, painting in general was a higher fee. Same price for paint or stain at DW.

So, my point is, shop around. Get what you like.

Bee


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I agree with Marcolo.
Even if your inspiration picture is beaded inset,
you can still get that vibe without the bead.
Also, I do think they would be difficult to keep clean.
That said, look at as many live door samples and whole cabinet displays
as possible to see what you like.

A few examples of inset without the bead:

Inspiration photo, Crown Point cabinets goes art deco

Katieob's former kitchen:

Inspiration photo from Gardenweb, Katieob's inspiring kitchen

Mamadadapaige's former kitchen:

Mamadadapaige Gardenweb, My inspiration! (Can you guess?!

A favorite inspiration picture (a Jessica Helgerson kitchen):

Inspiration, Jessica Helgerson design -- she is so inspiring.

No bead:

Inspiration photo
This Old House kitchen Newton Centre, no bead inset:

This Old House Newton Centre, Caesarstone

No bead inset:

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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

"*It would drive me nuts to be able see the shelves through the front. No matter how good your cabinetmaker is, this has be there, right? Or is that something beaded inset fixes?

*The decreased amount of room inside since the door sits inside the frame

*To get hidden hinges, I only saw gigantic hinges which seemed to suck up more real estate inside. "

I am not trying to be snarky in any way at all but can I ask a couple questions about this and clarify some things? Just trying to understand these issues.

1: Are you referring to the gap (reveal) between the door and the face frame?

It should be about 3/32" on each side. The shelving inside should not be visible from more than a few inches away with a flashlight..

2&3 This seems like the same issue in a way. I can see how this might bother some people. Not me particularly:-)

There is a solution though: Exposed butt hinges in one form or another eliminate that whole gargantuan hidden hinge (euro hinge) issue on the inside. The primary reason to use a hidden hinge is to make it easier for the cabinetmaker to fit the doors. It doesn't necessarily help out the kitchen user in any way. The exception being modern design-mod kitchens generally use hidden hinges, and should, for a sleeker look.

It would seem to me, and maybe I am wrong, that a hidden hinge on a frameless or full overlay cabinet would inhibit inside space nearly as much as the face frame on an inset cabinet (that used a proper butt hinge). Is that correct? Or am I missing something?

Lastly-bottom three pictures from the post above are all our hardware and I think some of the others from that post are too.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Beaded or not, you can not see the shelves inside of the cabs, unless you got a hack job.

Hidden hitches. The same are uses on inset ans full overlay.

You lose the thickness of you cab door, true.

People can weight their pros and cons. I think it really comes down to cost. People go with full overlay because it is less expensive. In my opinion, inset looks nicer.

As far as bead, it's your opinion whether you want it or not. Depending on style, not sure "fancier" is a real accurate description. We are not fancier type people.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

this old thread has great close-up pics of beaded inset as well as beads on the door.

Here is a link that might be useful: Beaded inset: on door vs. frame


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I think beaded inset goes with a more traditional kitchen. I think no bead is more transitional or more farmhouse. With a shaker door, you wouldn't do a bead IMO. With a raised panel door you might. I think no bead is more current right now.

Bee yes I am doing the pale blue. It has a complete wipe off of grayish glaze so it only catches in the molding.

My beaded inset was a standard upcharge per frame that needed to be beaded. So for my entire job, it was only a $950 upcharge. I think he only charged $25/frame.

When I ordered beaded inset from Cabico in my old kitchen, I believe it was a 20 or 30% upcharge, along with a significant upcharge for yellow paint and buttermilk glaze.

Dutchwood has been a dream to work with. They are very reasonable. And they are nice people to deal with.

Here is a link that might be useful: Inset door in blue with bead.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

thanks everyone! I will re-read these later as it has been a busy day and I'm still in gym clothes from this morning... I did contact 3 cabinet makers based on GW suggestions so now I will have 6 quotes hopefully (Plus the few from 6 months ago) Thanks!


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Re losing space in inset cabs-
most overlay wall cabs are standard 12" deep
most inset wall cabinets are between 13 and 14" deep standard- no loss
undermount drawer glides only come in standard lengths that vary by 3"- an inset base cab and an overlay use the same glides, hence the same drawer box- the width of the drawer boxes are also the same. You gain width (and height) using frameless.
Less expensive inset can use a large gap around the edge and between the doors. That way they don't have to maintain tolerance. Bettter ones will have 1/8 to 3/32" gap. Most mfg have the same gap for overlay and inset (frameless again can be different)
Exposed hinges open wider, hidden hinges will be between 95 and 105 degrees. Loss in the cabinet from the hinge is minimal- about the same as with frameless. Hidden hinges can interfere with shelf placement when the doors are tall enought that the mfg requires 3.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

If I saw inset cabinets that had glass fronts and lights inside of them, I could see the shelves on the sides.

And if the cabinet was stained a dark color and the shelves were not the same dark color (the first guy I went to did it this way) you could see the shelves.

And yes, I agree the top cabinets would have to be deeper to make up for the doors sitting inside in order to give you the room you need. You have to make sure to get that, I"ve seen a lot of people (even here) say their plates don't fit with their new inset cabinets.

As far as the hinges decreasing size, I meant if you have a narrow cabinet for storing cookie sheets, for example, you have trouble getting to the ones behind the hinge, you have to take out the ones that are not behind the hinge to get to those.

Again, these are what I saw. I said I do love the look. But for me to pay a premium for something that didn't appeal to me wasn't an option.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I want to make sure my quote was clear - there was an upcharge for flush inset of about $17 per door or drawer and then an additional upcharge for the bead. Total it was about 1700.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

beagles & bee- Are your full overlay frameless? That is what our original plan was. I love the look of inset but didn't want to lose space. not so much on the uppers but in all of our lowers which are drawers. I believe there are a couple ways to lessen how much is lost as someone may have mentioned above. This is another reason I was considering full overlay (frameless) on the lowers and inset on the uppers which it seems a few on GW have done well. A PA custom guy I spoke to this week said he's never done it that way before.

I'd definitely get deeper uppers (13-14") if we get inset.

5Z's- Beautiful photos! I actually couldn't detect the bead until the 2nd to last photo. I think in photos (unless they are close up) the bead often gets lost.
What type of marble is that? We are getting Imperial Danby. Yours looks fab!

If I didn't get a bead on the frame, It would be nice to have one on the door, so either way I'd have to clean it if I go that route : ) Marcolo, I'm assuming you're going to say I should skip any bead?

francoise- Thanks for those beautiful pics! All kitchens I love! I noticed in the first pic there is no frame between the drawer and the cabinet door below.

chiefy- Thanks! I remember that thread.

finestra- Beautiful blue cabs! (and I love your yellow ones too!) As a former yellow cab owner- would you recommend them? lol I can't wait! Did you have a yellow paint color? I'm planning on HC-4 Hawthorne Yellow as of now... for the lowers and Mascarpone for the uppers. Also thank for sharing your quote. Your saying for the whole job to do inset and have them beaded was $1700 more. So, the 1700 was for both or just for the bead. I think you mean both.

jakuvall- Thanks for that info!

Here's my 1950 Cape before removing the trees covering the brick on the house... Just for style reference..

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Other inspirations:

kit-yel-brocadewallpaper-435

images

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yellow-gerber-daisy0white-roses-bouquet

il_fullxfull.231435361

Imperial Danby

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chrome pull

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41O-VFGCFIL

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butterYellowHandtie36BIG

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Guerrero Update3

Guerrero Update2


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

My total upcharge was about 1700 - that was for bead ($25 per door/drawer) plus flush inset ($17 per frame). The flush inset was one upcharge and the bead another. It was not a significant %.

I LOVED my yellow kitchen. I did it about 7 years ago. The picture is from the night before we moved out 2 years ago. It held up incredibly well. It was Cornsilk with a faint brush stroke from Cabico on maple. I loved the creamy yellow. The kitchen was almost a neutral. I think it is a classic color that will never be dated. I was going to go with the same color here with the sandstone backsplash from Oceanglass tile tessara collection. But I had a vision of a creamy blue and just couldn't get it out of my head.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

finestra- Benjamin Moore Cornsilk?


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

It was a standard Cabico color. You might be able to get a color match to BM if you call them. I was able to get a color match for my stucco online to a BM color.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

2LittleFishies mine are not frameless. They are just regular cabinets. I wasn't really worried about space issues when I designed them, I only really care about how they looked. I have plenty of space for even large dishes though.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

finestra- thanks! Most of the custom places said they could do a color match to any Benjamin Moore color. I had been looking at BM Cornsilk awhile back and decided it was too beigey so I was curious if that's what you used.

beagles- thanks for the response : )


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Thank you. It's imperial Danby.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

littlefishies- I am using dutchwood as well, and paying what finestra paid for the upcharge, about 42$ total per door/draw.for me, I knew I had to have the inset, because every kitchen photo I saw that I loved was inset.I did do the bead, but I also love it without the bead, so i just decided to do it so didn't regret not doing it.i did increase my uppers to 15 1/4 to make sure all plates would fit.So i think if the inset is what you see and love just go for it, it seems like you have a large layout for space.Good luck! Michelle


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I can't believe I already got a quote back from Dutch Wood being I sent it on Thursday or Friday and it was a holiday weekend but I got it this morning. Looks good! He said it would be best to go there but I'm hoping this wouldn't be something I'd have to do a lot? It's 3 hours from me so I can't make the trip more than once or twice being I have the kids, etc.

What was your experience? Did you do most of it on the phone/email?


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

iv'e went there 2 or three times already, and plan to make one more trip to give him my sink, and paint chips.The rest has been done through email. I am only an hour and 20 min. away though.But they have been great. Good luck, Michelle


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Thanks Michelle.

Interesting that Dutch Wood does not do framless cabinets. Only framed inset/overlay.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Road trip! LOL Get a sitter and go have some fun! Can you take anyone with you and combine luch/shopping, with ordering cabinets? It sounds like a great way to spend a sunny afternoon :)


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

2LittleFishies I was in 5 1/2 hrs. away or further during the vast majority of the time when Dutch Wood was doing my house (every room; kitchen, 4xbaths, conservatory, dining room, great room, gathering room, pantry and closets) so I was away both from them and from the house (wasn't here for the install of anything!)

I went to see them twice or maybe three times at the most. The rest I did via email. I sent pictures, we went back and forth, etc. etc. (you can't send web links b/c they have limited access to Internet sights but you can send attachments).

I think you've seen the cabinets they did in my house? They came out extremely well w/o me needing to go there a lot.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

It seems the 2 companies I am down to are Dutch Wood and another PA company that my decorator and GC recommended (link below). They are doing another kitchen with my GC presently and I think works in our area somewhat often. Prices are about $5,000 apart right now. I have to do a close comparison of what is included, etc...

I have to say I have a small concern about the places being 3-4 hours away. Do they do everything in one day? What if there are issues? Do they keep coming back? Having someone local can be a benefit as they can stop in to do adjustments or whatever since they are close. Just a thought.

Here is a link that might be useful: Other Company


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Actually there is a 3rd company that is local to me that I am waiting on some pricing! : ) 2 others came back in the 50-60,000 range. uhhh, no!


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

fiveZs- How large is your prep sink area? (length?)

finestra- Do you have anymore kitchen pics? : )


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

It's great you have two good choices and possibly three good choices! Much better position to be in when you get to choose. We had ours narrowed down to two choices as well before we went w/ DW.

Dutch Wood did not do everything in one day in our house. They came back multiple times, but we did cabinets in many rooms so there would be no way they could have done everything.

I can tell you that I wouldn't worry about Dutch Wood not being as close, because I know that if there are issues, Dutch Wood will take care of you. We had one door that was installed that had streaky stain. Before we even said anything, they saw that it didn't look right when it was up, took the door off, did a new one and brought it back and reinstalled it. In our dining room, they installed crown molding on the cabinet that was a yellow color. I didn't like the all yellow after it was installed and was surprised I had done it that way but I didn't really remember. I emailed Jason to ask about the cost of having the piece remade in blue and told him I didn't like the yellow. Because he wanted to make sure they hadn't made a mistake, he went back and looked through the (billions) of emails and notes we had exchanged and found that I hadn't really ordered it in all yellow at all and that I'd ordered it in blue w/ yellow rope detail (like our other cabinets). It was fixed for free.

Those were the only mistakes in the entire house full of cabinets (cabinets everywhere!). They also somehow magically fixed our kitchen after the granite people made a mistake and left a gap that was 1/8 inch too wide between the counter and fridge so the granite people didn't have to recut the marble- so they fixed other people's mistakes even though they had nothing to do w/ the granite people! (I'm still not sure how they did this).

So, I wouldn't let geography be your deciding factor, but instead just go w/ whatever company offers you the most for your money!


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Thanks SO much beagles : ) Great info!

Well, I emailed both guys at 1:38 a.m. (one of those nights) about adding cabinetry in the dining room and they BOTH got back to me with an estimate by 9 am!!! Is it in the PA water? : ) My NJ people take forever.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I believe you are asking about the wetbar. It's 68 inches. The middle lower is a beverage fridge. There are two large pull outs. One just has the bottom drawer because of the sink. The other actually has a drawer pullout on top in the inside. We wanted to keep a consistent look and not have a lower pull out and upper drawer actually visible.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Yes, FiveZs- wetbar! lol That's what I meant. Thanks for the measurement!

beagles, bee, finestra-----

One other thing.... Did Jason work well with your G/Cs? Did they contact each other directly regarding plans/timing, etc... or did you act as the go between? Our one option as I mentioned deals with my GC regularly and wondered about Dutch Wood? I'd prefer not to always have to be the correspondent between the two. lol (Although I always have my nose in everything anyway!) Just wondering not that it's a deal breaker by any means.

Thanks for everything. GW is a treasure!


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Tomorrow is DW's final visit to our house. They are coming in the morning to finish up the kitchen and my closet. Yay!!! If you are far, they will push and probably bring extra manpower to get the installation done in less time. Of course if they find something that needs to be tweaked, they will probably come back. I know one kitchen they did in DC recently they did it in one long day.

I asked Jason about the frameless cabinets and his answer satisfied my question. As opposed to the first KD who said that they didn't do them because the cabinets would fall apart (insert the "Marcolo Stare" here).... Jason explained that they don't get a lot of requests for such cabinets, and it would involve investing in another piece of equipment that they weren't financially willing to do at that point. Who knows, I'm sure if enough GWers or other TKO people keep inquiring about it, maybe they will make the leap into that market.

My builder added DW as a supplier. They needed to submit proof of insurance and the usual stuff. The Job super told them the date they were scheduled to install on. I preferred to be the contact for this work. It was just a matter of "if you want it done right, do it yourself". Seems like all the subs I asked for were the ones who delivered without any problem!

I am being very picky about the smallest details. Ones that I personally don't care about but I want to have the most perfect job as possible since this is their first job for this builder. I want every person who sees this kitchen and my closet to drool and want to have them do theirs. I don't want any nay-sayers who find any small issues. We have a friend who is a woodworker. He cannot believe the cabinets and how they really look like furniture. He even commented that the paint job is really nice too.

And it is not uncommon for me to have emails with a time stamp of 3 or 4 am. from DW

Best of Luck.
bee


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

2LittleFishies our GC and Dutch Wood worked out everything as far as payment, timeline, etc. I didn't even know when they were coming until after the fact b/c I was 5 1/2 hrs away during the build. However, the quotes from Jason on the cabinets went directly to me so I could see them and make adjustments to what I wanted based on the line item price. This also allowed me to order a few things myself that I could get cheaper shopping around online than Jason could from his suppliers. Anything I wanted to order myself, I did and Jason just took the line item off and that amount didn't get billed to the GC or, by extension, us (since we went way over our allowances b/c I just went crazy and had Jason adding cabinets everywhere. Seriously, there could not be more cabinets in this house unless I started hanging some from the ceiling).


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I will try to attach a few more pictures. They haven't finished yet. They haven't finished the egg and dart crown around the hutch or the tops of most of the cabinets, nor have they attached the panels on the fridge/freezer/dw or put the corbels under the hood. And the furniture molding still needs to go around the bottom as well as valances under the appliances. Christopher Peacock would definitely claim my kitchen is overdone. But it makes me smile.

DW also fixed some problems like light placement without me asking. They are drilling new holes to make sure the glass shelves line up with the mullions in the glass doors.

I pretty much acted as a go between with the contractor but it was few and very far between. They called him once and confirmed a measurement with him regarding the hood vent. But they measured themselves and pretty much took it from there. They are a pretty sophisticated outfit. Just look at the jobs they did at Bees and Beagles.

Sink wall unfinished
Photobucket
Hood/Stove wall still needs egg and dart crown and corbels under hood
Photobucket

Hutch wall/Freezer needs panel and egg and dart crown
Photobucket

Hutch closer
Photobucket

Front of island needs microwave drawer
Photobucket

Back of island with 15" deep storage cabinets
Photobucket


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

finestra- Gorgeous!! Thanks so much for sharing : )


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

beaglesdoitbetter, I'm laughing about your "couldn't be more cabinets if we hung them from the ceiling!"

Not to hijack the thread (because beaded inset are my love), but I haven't built any closets yet, so I've been insane (ocd) about picking up cabinets at the reuse center. First I was building them, but for $5.00 a cabinet? That's even more insane. So..

In my MBR I have a 16'10" tansu in progress.
Laundry has a 6'x 8' bank of cabinets,
Dining room (one bank extending from the kitchen, and another floor to ceiling on another wall),
Living room, floor to ceiling bookshelves,
Master Bath, a 54" bank of cabs -- with my new Emperdor Darkj on it!
Kitchen has my 75" credenza wall I'm building, then those cabinets that extend into the dining room. That's about a 17' run uppers and lowers in themselves.

When I find a better made or beaded inset cabinet, I swap out a lesser quality cabinet.

I keep reading about DW and just wish I had the $$ to say "come on over! Knock yourself out! Make me beaded and happy!" I really live for the pictures you all post of these really heirloom pieces of cabinetry. If you ever move, pull them out and take them with you, please?

Oh - and this winter's project is to build 3 closets. Am thinking of built in shelves in them...


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

francoise- at Fri, May 25, 12 at 9:53
When you said you agreed with marcolo, where you saying b/c beaded is harder to clean or do you think it's too fussy for my house? I'm just wondering how to choose being my house isn't from the Shaker period either? Also, even many new constructions around me have beaded so... I'm just a bit confused : )


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

hi 2LF, question wasn't directed at me, but just wanted to chime in that I think beaded inset would look very fitting in your house. To me, beaded inset is a little on the "cottagey" side and your house is adorable. I also think the bead would look very nice combined with the fabrics and colors you are selecting. If you were going extremely serious with your fabrics I would say no, but your choices have some whimsy. I could really see it all going quite nicely together. Then again I adore inset cabinets and think they add a lot of character and charm - just my opinion. If you are doing inset, be sure to ask about combining cabinets so that you won't have the seams and pick up a little extra space... much better look.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Hi 2LittleFishies -- I was agreeing with both Marcolo's points:
both that beaded inset would be harder to keep clean
and that it is a bit more ornamental than I was imagining in your Cape Code house.

I do think that beaded inset is a very beautiful look in a cabinet.
I know that I was really attracted to beaded inset when I was shopping for cabinets. But in the end when I saw them in person I felt that the extra detailing wasn't necessary, or even right, in my 1928 colonial revival/four square house. But I'm sort of a minimalist at heart. And I sense that you aren't.

I truly believe that you should pick what you would like best.
Few of us are historical purists when it comes to renovating our kitchen.
My stainless appliances certainly don't look 1928!
I am sensing that you truly love the beaded inset. It is a beautiful look.
And you are going to have a beautiful kitchen, beaded or not.


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Beaded Inset vs Inset: both beautiful

Here they are side by side (not your style of cabinet).
Different looks. Which do you prefer?

Photobucket


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

hmmm- I actually like the flush. LOL - Surprise!
I'm thinking I may choose a door with a bead. Bee's is actually one that I love (posted at the top of the thread... : ) If I do a beaded door with flush inset it also saves $1000-$1500 which is good.

Hey looking at bee's drawer, can you put a cup pull on that style??


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I, too love the beaded look but have decided it doesn't fit my mission statement of 'easy to clean'.

Francoise47: not to swipe this thread topic, but can you tell me where you got the pic that you posted... the first set of pics, second to last. Stained cabs with a white counter top?

Here is a link that might be useful: pic


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I believe it was Kennebec

Here is a link that might be useful: KENNEBEC CABINETRY


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Yes, it was Kennebec -- I've seen Kennebec in person and they are lovely!


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I'm still confused on my decision between DW and another PA cabinet maker (I'll call #2). We really want to get this done this week.

Both seem to be excellent as far as the product. I've seen detailed photos of both and did meet with #2 who showed me several kitchens, and pointed out several extras, finishing touches that they do standard. (#2 said the don't add door panels to the end of the island/cabinet run. That it is integrated-- not just put on after)?

Pricing is my issue. DW is $4000.00 less. However, #2 is a flat rate that includes everything. If we add extra details, whatever we do with pantry, other pullouts we haven't listed yet, if we change doors, decorate island with and corbels or legs, add pocket doors to desk area, whatever is ALL included. I am confirming this today but that is what he told me.

I spoke to Jason this morning and clearly everything we add will be extra. $175 pocket doors at desk, island legs are $99-170 each, if cabs go to countertop, wine rack, pantry hardware other than rollouts, . Now, their prices ARE fair so it probably won't add more than $1000?? It's just the uncertainly of it.

We received separate quotes from both companies for the DR area. 4' desk area and 4' of bar area. DW is $1000 higher here and will go up with add-ins. (So I guess #2 is actually $3000 more than DW and then from there subtract any extras DW will charge as the plan goes on.)

I know I'll be happy with either one so just trying to make the best decision based on ??

One major plus (I think) with #2 is that he has worked with my GC a couple of times and although he is 3 hours away is in my town/area at least twice a week and has done several homes in my area. So, he can come here as we are planning, bring samples, go over things with me in person... and I won't have to drive 3 hours to see DW 2 or 3 times. NOT that it's a big deal but with the kids taking 2 or 3 seven/eight hours days to get there and back is a little bit of a hassle. Not a deal breaker though.

Anyway, I know it's our decision and don't know what help you all can give but it helps me to sort it all out when I shout out to GW : )

Thanks for listening! : )

Fishies


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

2LittleFishies I would just make sure to confirm in writing that EVERYTHING extra is included w/ #2 if you go w/ him. It seems kind of odd that he'd say that because what if you decided you wanted really expensive corbels or fancy detailed pull-outs in every cabinet; he could be out a lot of $ if he just included all that.

DW there won't be a charge if you change w/in standard stuff- only if you add extras. We changed our door style and the style of the legs on the island after we got started and didn't get upcharged. Also, I was able to buy some of my own pull-out stuff w/ DW to save more, i.e. the rev-a-shelf baskets were on clearance on a website and I bought them myself and I bought the hafele foot pedal myself.

Seems like you have tow great options either way though, esp. if the first guy will guarantee in writing that his is a flat rate price that includes pull-outs and all those other extras! It is a tough choice to make and I'm sure you will end up w/ a really great kitchen either way!!!


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Thanks, beagles! I am confirming now about what's included with #2.

I told Jason I wanted doors like you probably and they are charging me $540 more than they were in the first estimate as those are an upgrade.
Good thought about buying the pullouts to save.

Just to note that both quotes include some pullouts I already asked for up front., vertical pan storage, etc.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Oh and DW didn't include light rails so that adds $300.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

2littlefishes: I just took a look at your kitchen layout above and minus the wall where you have the ovens and bar sink we have the exact same layout. I am struggling with thinking that there are not enough wall cabinets in my L. We have the island where there will be more base cabinets but I am hoping that it is enough space to store all the stuff usually stored in wall cabs. What are the dimensions of your kitchen?

I am hoping to get our layout posted soon, once I figure out how to do it, so that I can get some feedback but it was nice to see a very similar layout with three windows and all already in 3D.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Hi p.ball2-

The wall cabs in the L is an issue and once I choose someone I want to work it out a little better if possible- or see some options. I'm not too worried because I have 8' of upper in the baking area on the other wall. Also, most of the things I have in my uppers now will now be in drawers or in the island which I don't have now.

My kitchen will be 16' x 16'. Glad seeing my layout helped : )


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I just saw you have an eating area connected as well. Our DR will be part of the kitchen kind of- the whole room is 29x16.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Fishes: Yes, we do have an eating area. It is narrow, only about 10' wide so we are placing our table with chairs there with a banquette against the wall. There is also a basment door and the door to the back staircase in that area so wall space is limited. These old houses are charming but can be complicated. I am toying with adding glass front display cabinets above the banquette so that I can get my display somewhere. I have a large collection of blue and white transferware that is displayed on shelves in our soon to be gone butler's pantry :(. With the lack of wall cabinets in the L I think having display is tough unless we put it in the sit down eating area of the kitchen.

Can't wait until I can get my husband to show me how to post our layout so that people can see what I am trying to explain. I agree that your baking area more than makes up for the lack of wall cabinets.

I am going to try to get out to dutchwood next week for a visit and a better idea of all the possible cost and upcharges.Have you gone there yet?


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

OK, I'm going with flush inset for a few reasons. (budget, cleaning issues, and I really like flush so no need to go for the extra)

I really liked doors with a bead on the edge and in the middle but don't want to do mitered doors. I'm sure they hold up for many but I have read and heard a lot about the corners separating and that it's more noticeable with painted cabs. Also, it's more expensive. So, don't want to even go there.

I'm told you can still do a bead on the inner part of the door without doing mitered. Imagine Bee's drawer WITHOUT the bead on the outer edge...

7119923529_01ed350150_b

Or I like these- I think they are ogee?
Thoughts?

Here is one I have liked for a long time... (ignore the bead on the frame)
OLDD_YellowKitchen

Love these! (dotcomgone's kitchen)
1263934527

1262916516

francoise- you posted this above.. Is this the same idea? Do you know whose kitchen this is?

Photobucket


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

The image directly above with the robin on the counter is my kitchen.
The doors are not miter cut.
And they are not beaded, inside the door panel or around the frame.
The doors just have a simple 3/4" piece of trim inside the door panel
to give a bit of extra dimension to the basically shaker-style doors.
I love them. But my sense from your posts
is that they are not the look you are going for.
I just posted the picture to give one more example
of what a non-beaded inset door looks like in a real life installation.

Here is a close up of one of the cabinets before installation, with my cat displaying a little attitude about his whole life being upended for four months last summer.
(Even if we have agreed on another GW thread recently that cats shouldn't go on the counters, who says they shouldn't go on the cabinets?!)

Tippy, the cat, looks beautiful on the F & B Wimborne White painted cabinets, don't you think?


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Thanks so much for posting francoise! Just trying to straighten out all the photos I see and it's often hard to tell from a distance what I'm looking at : )
Your cabinets are beautiful.

What are your thoughts on the ogee I posted? (I think that's what they are) Do you think the yellow cabs are the same as dotcomgone's? I really like them and hope it won't be too much...

Or, I could do one bead like bee's but without the bead on the edge of the door (and still no bead on the frame)..


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

I can't tell with the yellow cabinets you posted if the trim/ogee is the same as on dotcomgone's kitchen. Do you want a hefty ogee/trim?
Or, do you want something more subtle like the cabinets in jbrodie' sf famous GW kitchen?

Photobucket

Photobucket

I would imagine that your cabinet maker could mock up several different choices for you so that you can see how much detail and heft you want to the interior ogee trim. Ask your cabinet maker to make you one sample door.


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Francoise- Yes! I like those! I think the yellow one is similar -- less bumps.
Do you have a link to the whole kitchen?

I'll have to see samples some in person : )


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

Here is the link to Jbrodies' 2009 kitchen reno.

Here is a link that might be useful: Jbrodie's GW kitchen reveal


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RE: Cab Quotes & show me Beaded Inset vs Inset

In Jbrodie's description it says the cabinet is beaded but it doesn't look like a bead to me.. ? I'm thinking a bead (no matter where it is ) will be hard to clean like we said above.


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