I think they are at best trendy, and won't be a ''timeless'' style whatever that means. But I think they are also useful.

Here is the real deal, well, slightly scaled down but this is the company whose faucets are actually in commercial kitchens.

http://www.chicagofaucetshoppe.com/T_S_Brass_Pre_Rinse_Mini_Pre_Rinse_Faucets_s/209.htm

when my GC muttered "now your soup kitchen is complete"

What a hoot! Thanks for sharing, FF, best laugh I've had in days. And I think it looks dandy : ).

Aliris, good luck! No words of wisdom, it's something I'm considering too but I have a while longer to go...

Becky

I love those. Like the fake 'pro-style' commercial stoves, though, I'd steer clear of the fake commercial faucets and go for a real quality commercial one.

I initially bought a KWC like FF's and was really impressed with its heft - unfortunately it didn't work out in my remodel and I sold it to some (ecstatic) kitchen remodeller on eBay. But I can't imagine why a real one wouldn't stand the test of time -- folks have used all sorts of commercial items in their residential kitchens.

Sorry about this, but can you please tell me what "KWC" means? Thanks!

KWC is company.
Really nice well made stuff.

Here is a link that might be useful: KWC

This is on our main sink. To be honest, I haven't used it much yet since we haven't moved in the new house yet. Love the looks, and the little I've used it in clean up, it seems really nice. It's Danze D455158. I ordered from Faucet Direct. Has very good reviews. Is it trendy? Gosh, I haven't a clue. If it is, it's not expensive so wouldn't be an issue to replace. Plumber said it was well made.

We're anxious to get the final touches done on the house, and our plan is to move 2 weeks. House is essentially done, but the deep crown moulding in the kitchen will be done after we move in.
{{gwi:1559498}}

Beautiful windows, Joyce! But that's not what I was supposed to be looking at .... thanks for the picture.

I'm finally beginning to understand this is essentially just that hose-thingy which never used to work, redesigned so it works.

Thanks! Good luck on moving in to your new house. Eeeek!!! Talk about a reveal!

Here's one on Elle Decor

Here is a link that might be useful: april 2010 issue Elle Decor

John - wow. I was starting to get *so depressed* about this faucet-thing. I've realized the cheap Chinese online version is not low lead; everything else is massively expensive, and as always the online v showroom cost differential is depressing as can be as well.

I was just coming round to deciding I can't afford this. In reviewing the subject here I returned to this thread and investigated your "real deal" here and, well - why are these so inexpensive, comparatively!? What am I missing? Is there any reason I can't put this commercial blaster in my kitchen? I can assure you the styling really doesn't matter particularly to me. Quite frankly, I don't like the looks of any of em from high to low end; I think the low price tag is attractive, in truth!

So ... am I missing something; is there some reason not to order a commercial grade faucet? I wonder if they're low-lead compliant; must be... any other reason? Anyone have one themself?

Thanks....

and thanks especially to John!!

Here is a link that might be useful: John's

I've had the Dornbracht high arc for 8 years. I don't consider it trendy, just another style. I love mine.

Here is a link that might be useful: Top Kitchen Faucets

T&S' website says that all their products comply with California's low lead law. http://www.tsbrass.com/leadfree/lead-free.cfm (the page appears to date from some time ago, when the CA law was still new; I guess you could call them to confirm, but I see subsequent press stuff about the factory switching entirely to ''Eco Brass'' which I think is the low lead stuff.)

Note the T&S pre-rinse faucets have a wall brace. I do not know if this is absolutely necessary in home use, or simply reinforcement for the faucet's intended commercial use (getting slammed 12 hours/day 7 days/wk by someone who is assuredly not TKO).

Why are they so reasonably priced for a US-made product? Turn it around - why are high-end designer residential faucets so expensive? Some kitchen faucets are priced at $2,000. Do you realize what a ridiculous price that is, for a couple pounds of steel and a manufacturing process not much different than the one used for the cheapest faucet at Home Depot? Somewhere, some guy in a suit is doubled over laughing at customers who have become so over-wrought and emotional about a valve attached to a pipe, that they'll spend more for a designer faucet than everyone else spends for a dishwasher or television.

Here's ours, which is also a Danze from Faucet Direct and I believe the same as Joyce's. Was just installed on Monday. I had the same concern about it being "trendy", but it was the look we were going for. Its not "commercial", but has the commercial look. It was not too expensive at all, and considering how easily a faucet can be replaced, I went for it. I love the look and the function so far. It is not noisy, does not cause a splash issue in our SS sink, and works perfectly for our needs. It really makes a statement in the kitchen.

looks great, KayceeFL!

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Aliris19, tell me if you see the purpose of big spring as I do.

1./ it helps you when you release the handspray wand.
In a pulldown tube shape, you have to re-seat the wand or let it dangle a little bit.
The spring eliminates this step.
(it's as if the wand reseated itself)

2./ it lets you have a faucet with which you can rinse down anything, with a wand on a hose
AND
without any hose underneath the countertop.
A hose under the counter can get caught on the other stuff that is to be found there (including the rigid outlet pipe coming out of the faucet body, onto which the hose is attached)

There are a few faucets that have a spring AND a hose going under the counter, so they are in both categories (pulldown faucets and semi-pro / spring faucets).

Aliris, I think you wanted to see semiprofessional faucets.
With a visible spring as the "hose guide".

The thread title may be misleading. Commercial (professional) faucets, in restaurants, are washdown hosedown powerwash devices. They spray a big jet of water. It's often double or triple the flow rate allowed in residential settings. The strength of the jet stream is far greater than the spray or aerated stream also (compared to a semi pro faucet or any other residential faucet). The jet will bruise lettuce or spinach instead of rinsing it.

Chicacgo and T&S have both gone all low-lead while remaining all brass.

--

johnliu's cynicism pleases me.
Those who make high end residential water fixture devices charge whatever the market will bear.
They charge for their design.
They avoid revealing technical details.
Some may be struggling, but there may be many who " _ insert _ emotion _ here _ " all the way to the bank.
The fact that there are hundreds of small faucet manufacturers tells me that the industry is not a low margin business.

Hth

Note another difference between the commercial pre-rinse units and some of the the ''pro-look'' residential versions.

On the commercial units, the sprayer hangs freely. It is meant to be used while holding the sprayer and squeezing the sprayer handle. You can lock the handle down, but then if you bump the sprayer, it can swing around and flood your counters. There is a hook to hold the sprayer back out of the way when not in use, but no bracket to hold the sprayer centered over the sink when in use.

For when you want to use the faucet like a normal faucet - to fill a pot or something - there is also (sometimes optional) a separate swiveling spout, and a valve/handle that turns that spout on and off. That spout does not have an aerator, but is threaded so you could add a separate aerator if you like.

Some of the pro-look units are designed the same way, others (like the one pictured above) are different.

For anyone who might follow this thread and like to see the retail options of semi-pro, that is outer-wire overhead-type faucets, there's a good spread of many of them here:
http://www.chicagofaucetshoppe.com/Pre_Rinse_Faucets_s/2289.htm

but better still here:
http://www.homeandstone.com/cats.cfm?Group_ID=942

The home and stone site shows you most, though not all, of the "semipro" faucet options I've found on the market.

David, I agree that I've blongled up the language. I was referring mostly to the external-spring overhead type spray nozzles. These would be intended to blast food particles from dishes as opposed to rinse lettuce. Good point. Not sure of the correct terminology.

And yes, David - I agree with both assessments of these faucets. Amusingly KWC has an overhead-type hose that also *pulls out*, which it would seem to me, sort of misses the point: in large part to avoid the irritation of getting that dang hose to retract, or snap or magnetize itself in or whatever. Grab-and-go.

John, I couldn't agree more. The markup on these pieces of sinkware are nothing short of bizarre. I know everyone needs to make a living, yadayada. I do too!! As the recipient and provider of far, far more time in the classroom than I would ever want to acknowledge, I am painfully aware that many if not most of these folks I'm dealing with nowadays earn more than I do, with no regard to the comparative rarity of our respective expertise (one potential measure of value). It is rare for anyone to defend my need to feed my children with anything like the ferocity that gets invoked when profits are challenged in this line.

Ay-yi that soapbox is hard to avoid ... sorry.

T&S' statement and policy about lead on their website (there are a couple pages) is incredibly refreshing. I suppose that's what David is referring to obliquely when he disses others for being non-forthcoming; conversely it's really, really nice to just read it all spread in front of you. T & S held "CA" codes for their lead-compliant fixtures temporarily for those from other states who wanted to get in on the safety action (and why wouldn't anyone?); the measure was just to allow inventory to catch up, all of it, with lead-compliance. All their faucets have been compliant since Jan 2010, some 16 months ago and they've dropped the tagging as it's irrelevant. Whew. So nice.

KC - thanks for the picture. I love your sink on the diagonal like that; lost of room for the statement as well! You may not have lived with the faucet yet long enough to know, but I'm wondering whether ti bothers you that there's no spout, just the squirter.

The best part, IMO, about the T&S straight-forward, honest offerings is that you can just piece-meal put together a faucet system to taste. Toward this end I have a couple questions I started in a separate thread, about ceramic v compression valves and vacuum breakers. I would really appreciate a plumbing-knowledgeable response if you're willing.

Oh - one more question about the commercial T&S: is it possible to squeeze on the squirter lightly in order to result in a spray soft enough to rinse lettuce, or is it on-off blaster-mode only?

One more random squirter-comment. In my visits to showrooms, the retail semi-pro squirter I most liked, for feel and function, was the Waterstone, believe it or not. Which is why of course, this all got so depressing. It's +/- 1.5K. For a faucet. Talk about selling your soul.... there are schools out there that could use this sort of $$$.

Here is a link that might be useful: Next questions re internal faucet parts

aliris you have stumbled upon the same company as I did : T&S.

--

note that Chicago Faucets is an excellent company, with all the same mix & match options as T&S
Just in case it needs to be said:
The "shoppe" on the internet is a reseller of everything, unrelated to Chicago Faucets.
So chicagofaucetshoppe.com is not the manufacturer chicagofaucets.com

In the Chicago Faucets chicagofaucets.com web site you will see a section for faucets that work in biology and chemistry labs. I know from personal experience that these are for all intents and purposes silent. I love that. Waht concept: turn on the tap and get water without any hissing noise from high pressure water flowing through constrictions (in a pipe, valve, disc, ball, cartridge, waterway). But would I want a lab look in my lab kitchen? I'm still reflecting on this.

Years ago I called Chicago Faucets and Geberit division a great deal for other products (bathroom related). They were the best customer service people I have ever dealt with in the plumbing field. Chuck was the manager. I'm still favorably impressed many years later.

In my kitchen faucet research I have not yet called Chicago Faucets. One day I will do so.

--

T&S has two interesting new sprays. See http://tsbrass-lowflow.com/
BUT as near as I can determine, these are "washdown" even though the water quantity is low flow. What this means is that they are made for people wearing aprons in restaurant washing up stations. Therefore they let fine particulate droplets spray in addition to doing the main job they were designed for. How do I know this? Silence is one indicator. Call them and talk to whoever you get on the line. In your own words, ask what you want. When you ask or reveal anything about residential kitchen applications, they go silent. Or they change their tone of voice, like they are less confident. Or they say "washdown". After you hear "washdown" a few more times, you might draw your own conclusions different from mine or the same.

Since I've called and emailed the people at T&S more than a few times, I'll bet they are certainly aware that there is a possible new market for them in mix & match residential applications. If a couple more people from totally different backgrounds also perk up and ask, it could happen that new products come out within a few months. ((After all, the expressed need has always been obvious but the difference is that now it is more consumer-initiated than ever before.))

http://tsbrass-lowflow.com/

Here is a link that might be useful: http://tsbrass-lowflow.com/

Should we next show aliris the foot pedal valves . . .

Hey, I saw those! I'm opting for the wing-handles for the wrist. I'm guessing those foot pedals require electrical wiring which sounds like more trouble than it's worth, but I did pause for a moment over them! ;)

BTW, David, I personally would have *no problem* cooking in a seeming-lab. In fact, others have noted the congruence with the soapstone preference with lab atmosphere. I have spent rather a lot of happy time in labs.... And what are those expensive Dutch Technivorum coffee makers if not chemex lab equipment? Maybe it's more of a trend than we've been discerning?

No electrical - the water supply lines run to/from the foot pedals, and can be flex lines. I am not totally clear on the best way to connect them so that either foot or hand controls can be used equally easily, but I'm sure there is a way. I think histokitch has them, or a slightly different device called a Tapmaster, and a handful of others do too.

My dream water delivery system - if it isn't pathetic to dream about such things - is foot valves and a touchless soap dispenser for butchering chicken laden with drug-resistant salmonella (about 10% of typical grocery store chickens are), wrist handles for other use and for guests, a pre-rinse sprayer for washing up, a swivel spout for ordinary use, and insta-hot water plus filtered cold. That somehow doesn't look like a demented pipe organ of plumbing.

I'm going for all that, too.
Most of the parts are to be hidden from view in a thick wall shelf.
The shelf will have light in it too.

David brings up a good point. I've used the commercial pre rinse sprays (one is in a church kitchen). They are not ridiculously messy - I mean, you don't end up looking like a commercial fisherman in a North Sea gale - but I suppose I wouldn't be doing the washing up in my prettiest dress either. Or, in my case, any dress. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Seriously, there is on KF sometimes much consternation about whether the polished nickel faucet is going to stream smoothly into the porcelain drain without leaving water spots on the mother-of-pearl backsplash. If you're prone to those worries, then you might want to wander down to your local greasy spoon and check out the splashiness of this bona-fide commercial stuff. They're not made for people who worry about that kind of thing. The typical user is more worried about if he can pay the rent and stay away from La Migra, you know?

I used a real commercial sprayer at my son's school after an event in which I *was* in a pretty dress. Not pretty. And the steam didn't help my hair either. Next time I'll volunteer for setup and not cleanup. I certainly couldn't handle that amount of pressure!

It's interesting, this pressure thing. I notice the retail semi-pro stuff, by KWC and Blanco and the like - those list 2.2 gpm while the T&S lists 1.85 gpm or so for the low-flow option. Maybe it was less, even (1.4gpm?).

Is this not the relevant issue for 'splashed dresses' (John, you may have worn a dress more recently than I)? Or is there some other parameter that affects splash. For example, pressure.

I was told by the showroom salesman that the pressure is capped by the state at 2.2gpm (which is a flow rate, different, I suppose from pressure) and constricted above that. I am presuming that somehow, the commercial blasters at 1.85gpm are comparable to the residential 2.2gpm - is that true?

But is this irrelevant to the splash-problem? Is that just a function of the shape of the holes in the nozzle? Oh don't tell me I need to find a showroom for this stuff now.

grump.

I like my mother-of-pearl with water spots.

Here is an excerpt from the response received to one of my emails.

Me:
The MV has an adjustable stream (Strength).
"Adjustable stream from solid to soft spray on MV spray guns"
Could I rinse vegetables under the "soft MV spray"?
It's a washdown spray, so I need to know before buying.
How can I figure out what solid means and what soft means?

They:
The rosespray is what I would suggest for this application. It provides around 4 gpm at 60 psi. The MV valve is not adjustable and we would not recommend this one at all for what you need. You could also look at a B-0102-B valve....this also has around 4 gpm.

--

It's clear about some things, and not very clear about the B-0102-B valve...

--

This all just goes to show that the sprays that don't list Gpm are high volume. So, you cannot conclude they are low flow.

Also, f.y.i., restaurants have other rules and regulations to follow, and do not have to follow the regulations restricting residential usage. So, you cannot conclude that commercial faucets would work well at home. They might not have the same aerated sprays you expect in a home.

-- 0-- 1 -- 00 --

Breaking news tonight: many residential faucets have no spray at all, and nobody complains. Veggies get rinsed just as well. Or just as badly. Whatever.

But, I notice that KWC and Grohe (no slouches) sell new models without any spray. Just an aerated stream. It takes guts to buck the trend. It's saying you don't really need it after all, and even almost "we were wrong to make it into a big thing in previous years when we were angling for market share." Basically, it's optional. Very optional. Pretty much unnecessary.

Hth

The rated gpm is the maximum flow at some standard pressure, but you don't have to open the valve all the way.

Hi, we like our high-arc commercial-style faucet very much at the utility sink: I think it's pretty! Sculptural, even. It is heavy duty and can rotate 360 degrees, so it reaches all corners of the large 2' x 2' sink as well as serving as a potfiller for pots set next to the sink on the island. I like that it can work as a regular faucet, or as a spray by pressing the button on the side of the faucet head. You pay for the tactile properties of the fittings, and no doubt for the unfavorable exchange rate if it is a European fitting, but that kitchen faucet is something you will use a lot, every day, and if you like it and your budget permits, then go for it. In a decade of bathroom and kitchen renovations we never ever have had a problem with any of the Dornbracht fittings we have installed, and their finishes are beautiful.

{{gwi:1833323}}

I have the exact faucet that farm girl has ( search: finished modern kitchen). I've been using it for almost a year. It is by far the best designed faucet I've used. I would not buy the cheapest faucet you can find for your main sink. Yes there is a great disparity in pricing in everything. You do want solid parts with no plastic. Above that you are paying for design and name. Don't worry about trends and buy what you like. What I consider dated others do not and vice versa.

my question is do they look insanely large in your kitchen? i am concerned that it might look out of place as most of these models are 27 inches plus tall.

Honestly, yes. Ours is 36" I think, and it looks huge. And in some ways pretty ugly. When we moved and left the faucet with the old house I just could not adjust to using a standard faucet again -- however pretty the new one was. My former KWC faucet had been discontinued so bought a used one on eBay. Joy!

Once you have lived with the freedom of movement and powerful spray of these things, it's just too hard to go back to wimpy and inaccessible sprayers. So if you don't want to be doomed to having a huge and not all that attractive faucet in your kitchen from this day forward, well, I recommend you stay far away.

We have only had it for a week and I love it. Ours is the Grohe K7 medium (22 inches tall). The sink is 30x18 and the faucet lines up with center of window. I agree with an earlier post that it is sculptural. The bridge faucet would look more appropriate in our very old house but it wanted practical. The Grohe feels much heavier than others and has the most streamlined styling, no plastic or black buttons etc.

That's great that you're happy with the Grohe K7. I can't wait to install mine.

just ordered the grohe K7 as can't seem to order the tara profi.. will install pics as soon as i get mine

We have a Krowne 17-109WL sprayer. Have had it now for about two years. Paid about $300. My wife originally was unsure about it but enjoys it now. Does a great job blasting food off of dishes. Had to have the stainless box behind it fabricated to keep plumbing inside cabinet (sink is on an outside wall). This thing should last forever and was way less than most of the high-end faucet/sprayer combos.

firemedic1198 We are interested in getting a similar faucet from either Krowne or T&S and was wondering what your experience has been with things like washing lettuce? Has pressure been an issue, like some people suggested?

For whatever opinions are worth, I love the look of these in pretty much any kind of kitchen (including "soup"!), but I'm a skeptic when it comes to function. I used one in a vacation rental and have tried others (unplumbed) at stores and found that the springs don't really let you pull the spray way down and maneuver it around comfortably like I want. And to loop in the Appliances discussions, aren't we supposed to be scraping and NOT rinsing our dishes for modern dishwashers? For those reasons, I've pretty much decided on a Kohler with the blade spray, though my decisions do seem to be less than completely firm these days.

Xochitl. Still very happy with the Krowne. It has plenty of pressure when needed and if you don't want too much pressure, you can close down the faucet(s) a little or just use a lighter squeeze on the handle for the sprayer. When pulled down as far as I can, it is easily 4+ inches below the top of the sink. When I'm really using it to clean a bunch of dishes, does it spray outside the sink a little? Sure. But it's not enough of an issue to make me dislike the sprayer.. I have no doubt that it will provide many years of use. It is solid, well built, and looks good in our kitchen. The only challenge we had was installing a wall mount faucet on an outside wall. We didn't want the plumbing in the wall were it could freeze. That's why we had the stainless shelf/box built - so we could keep the plumbing inside. More than willing to provide more pics of any part of it you are curious about. It pairs very well with our farmhouse sink (which we also love).

firemedic1198 Love to see more pictures. Saw the one in your other post. How large is your sink? We are looking at the pre-rinse, low profile, wall mount from either T&S or Krowne (I'm in Los Angeles, so freezing not a concern). They say their parts are interchangeable, which makes me wonder if they're manufactured by the same factory. They also have a foot pedal that I'm interested in getting in the hopes of conserving water.

Can you use the hose without holding it? The hose and the arm work simultaneously? How is it to clean the hose? (i'm not a neatfreak :o))

Here's a couple pictures of the faucet. You can see the hot/cold levers on the left and right side of the faucet. The lever in the center is how you choose between the faucet and the sprayer. When it is vertical, it sends water to the faucet and to use the sprayer you turn it 90 degrees to the left. If you look at the picture of the sprayer, there is a metal ring that you can slide over the handle to keep it depressed and be "hands free." We never use it. Also, the spray comes out in a fan shape which works great for spraying stuff off. It really doesn't flow that much water when you use the sprayer and I like that. However, the faucet puts out a really good flow - which is nice when filling pots.

The sink is a Whitehaus WH3018 and is 30" wide by 18" to the back by 10" deep. We really like having one large sink instead of the traditional two. We also purchased the metal grate that goes in the bottom and had to purchase the drain fittings specific to this sink as well (we don't have a garbage disposal but it was an option). We bought it from bluebath.com but it is available many other places. I can't remember where we bought the sprayer from - I think I just kept Googling the model number and went with the best price I could find.

As far as cleaning the faucet goes, we just use Clorox wipes. It has some nooks and crannies that take a little work to clean out but it's not too bad at all. The "spring" part at the base of the hose slides up and down so cleaning it is easy (though it really doesn't get that dirty).

Again, I highly recommend both the sink and the faucet. Have had no issues with either. I looked around at some of the quasi-commercial faucets from some of the big-name manufacturers and they were way too expensive. I don't know what these faucets cost today but I don't think we spent more than about $300 or so. But it should last us FOREVER.

Found it on Amazon. Right at $300. http://www.amazon.com/Krowne-17-109WL-Royal-Center-Pre-rinse/dp/B003SMKRSM/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1453058024&sr=1-6&keywords=krowne+faucets

Yours is wall mount? Your reply makes me feel much better about the faucet. I love the look and having the option of a sprayer or faucet, as long as it can work in a home setting and not end up drenching me or the countertops. I do cook a lot and garden, so the sprayer function is going to be great, I hope. Thanks for all your photos and explanations!

Yes, ours is a wall mount. Again, we had the stainless steel shelf built to keep the plumbing "inside" so it wouldn't freeze in the winter (on an exterior wall). We really like faucet and it sounds like you would as well! We went into it blindly when we did it - I wasn't able to find much advice online about installing true "commercial" faucet/sprayers in a residential setting - our plumber even though we were weird for doing it. That's why I posted it here. I used GardenWeb (now Houzz) to get a lot of useful information when we did our remodel. Figured I'd pay it forward and post what we did. Good luck with whatever you choose! Post a picture when you get it installed!

The one thing I do want to add is that my plan was to eventually put in concrete countertops (which I still haven't done). When the guy came to look at our kitchen to measure for countertops he said that, because of our farmhouse sink, we had to do something to make sure the edges of countertop didn't get wet underneath the verneer (the countertops are a pressed wood product with the colored verneer glued to them). He said they would expand/delaminate if they got wet. The solution he offered was to glue an approximately 1/2" strip of composite (plastic) countertop material to the wood countertop material and then put the laminate over both. So the edges of the countertop that butt up against the top of the sink are protected from getting wet. Hopefully I explained this clearly. If you need, I can take a picture of the underside of the countertop if this has any bearing on what you are doing. I didn't have time to mess with concrete during the build so we had the laminate countertops put in. Thats also why the steel is taller than the countertops - I had the height set for the thickness of the concrete countertops (if/when I ever get around to them).

firemedic1198 Thanks! I will definitely post pictures! We are set to start demo in February. Right now we are leaning towards soapstone on the sink side and wood on the peninsula that has the stove. I was a little hesitant to put wood near the sink and dishwasher. It's exciting getting this close! They did DYI countertops on that website, ChrislovesJulia. Looked great.

I also wanted to get a 12" faucet. How do you like that length?

Originally we felt it was too long but over time, we've gotten used to it. I think we'd miss it if we switched to the shorter one (which would be really easy to do if you wanted to).

PS - I have no idea how to tag your user name in these posts like you are doing with mine. :)