My v. first thought was for your ovens you really should have side-opening, esp. if you are petite. I know your husband is the baker but even still, pulling those doors down against a wall (window) just feels awkward to me.

It also seems like you'll be doing a lot of walking around to get things together, but that's because I'm viewing it through my lens of how my partner and I cook. We like a tighter space with what we need closer at-hand, but that's what *we* like.

What do your children drink / eat for snacks? If they're like my (similarly aged to yours) children then they kinda drink / eat all day long. Are the glasses too far from your fridge? Or do your children primarily drink tap water? Do their snacks require heating?

Are your children physically disruptive together? I'm wondering because you've placed their island chairs so far from one another, and one is sitting with the sink in his lap. Could that sink be moved down a bit so as to be almost directly across from your cooktop?

How does your husband, as the primary baker, feel about walking from one end of the kitchen with his dough to the other where the ovens are? Does he bake infrequently? Are the children / pets around when he does his baking? (I'm thinking about them being underfoot as he's carrying things down the stretch to the ovens.) Actually, he'd first have to carry things from the pantry to the opposite end of the kitchen, and then his pre-baked goodies back again. I'm also thinking of putting leftovers in the fridge. I like how your tupperware is close to your cooktop, but just thinking of stacking them up as you make your way down the galley to the fridge.

These are jumping out at me, but again, I'm seeing your plan and thinking how I would work in there. If you and your husband have mentally made your snacks, meals, treats, etc. and given your family it works, then that's great!!! I hope everything works out for you this time! Lucky #16.

Oh wait, how much space would you lose using the IKEA cabs? That's what I'm thinking vis a vis your $7K difference -- if the space loss is minimal then I'd save the $7K (because it'll go somewhere else!).

I remember your layout work from a while ago! The angled wall & the FP!

I don't remember, are the windows already there? Can they be changed/moved?

I think I'd prefer switching the cooktop with the sink & DWs. It would put the Prep & Cooking Zones near the refrigerator and pantry as well as protect them from through-traffic and other "casual" kitchen traffic.

I'd probably move the sink & DWs as far down as possible to be able to create a nice expanse of workspace for baking, especially with the 30" deep counters along the wall!

"...The area to the right of that wall, underneath is a crawlspace, so I don't want to put the prep sink on that side in case of pipes freezing. ..."

Hmmmmm...I guess that means you don't want to put the cleanup sink on the other end either.

Tough decision here...I really think it would so much more functional if you could move the cleanup sink. (It would also put your hood where it could be seen & admired even more!)

Is there no way to insulate the area above the crawlspace but below the finished floor?

Welcome back! This will sound very negative, because I'm going to point out the possible trouble spots I see. Doesn't mean it's all horrible, but these are the things that I think could be future frustrations that I'l like to see you avoid:

The oven looks tight to me, too. Not only using it, but I've had to have my oven replaced more than once, so know that any repair or replacement needs room for probably 2 guys and a cart or other contraption.

The landing space for the oven is the counter beside the sink, which would be a 180 turn from the oven...Kinda tough maneuver and small space, especially since it's crucial to the clean up area.

I also noticed the sink right in one seat's space at the island. You've left a foot between the end and the sink, but that's not enough, IMO. It will be kind of a hassle to tend to kids at opposite ends of the island?

Is the TV room furniture accurately sized? If so, I don't think that will be a comfortable room. One person at the couch faces a side of a chair. That person in the chair is sideways to the TV. That chair is also only 2 ft from the TV which is a tight walkway.

The walk to the dining room is long and complex. There are no easy paths through the house with it arranged this way. Lots of turns and maneuvering around things. One spot like that might be bearable, but so many will get irritating?

How does this plan compare to the one you worked on last?

Hi Huango,
If you don't want to move the sink, can you move the fridge/oven to the wall that is shared with the mudroom? (not sure you have the space or if that window is moveable).
Or, would it be possible to insulate the crawlspace so that you can put plumbing in there?
Would you consider a smaller fridge to make the oven placement less awkward?
You must have already considered this, but I'll throw it into the mix - you only have seating for 2 at your island, and that seating is very far apart. As a family of 4, do you need require more eating space?

Just had another thought. Do you need a formal dining room? If not, can you turn the dining room into the tv room/family room and incorporate the current tv area into the kitchen?
Just food for thought

rq

I was thinking of something like this with a 5' Baking Center to the left of the cooktop and across from the ovens.

But, it puts the sink & DWs over the crawlspace.

The island is also no longer convenient for prepping...

Oh, and I meant to ask...can the wall next to the refrigerator be "cut back" so it's flush with the back wall? You'd gain approx 4.5" on that wall. If so, you might consider putting the ovens b/w the refrigerator & freezer w/those "extra" 4.5" b/w the freezer & wall for filler to allow the door to open at least 90 degrees. (If you have another 1/2", you might even be able to make a narrow broom closet b/w the wall and freezer (see the 4" broom closet idea from Ikeafans.)

More thought is needed!

Here is a link that might be useful: 4'' Broom Closet from IkeaFans

This is a bit weaker stylistically, but have you tried:

Fridge unit next to DW, Ovens next to fridge (which would give a bit of elbow room there)--Then freezer in the corner near the pantry where it is now?

Still puts the ovens against the wall but with a bit more room, and still allows doorswings for the fridge and freezer.

I don't know which all fridge all freezer you are getting but another option would be to go for a narrower freezer unit to give you a bit more room for the ovens.

The only other thing that would bother me (given your rationale for the other positions) is the counter stool prep sink issue. I think that would make that stool not very useful IRL. Its too far from the sind for seated prep but close enough to the sink for things to fall in if you are using the stool to eat or for other tasks.

Am looking at prep sink opposite the range with 3 feet between them. Very tight area, since that's the closest sink to porch and patio, the two places where dishes and beverage glasses travel far and need to be filled from a distance. If the prep sink were on the center of the outside of the island, it would serve the rooms better. It would give you plunk space to hold items going to and from from the refrig. and to receive dishes from the outdoors and from fam room area on the one end and would allow you to put prepared food in front of the sink to grab from the range area. No need to collide with people in that 3 foot space.

Do lots and lots of walkthroughs--it's Christmas and you have a houseful, it's morning and you're making coffee, it's after supper and you're cleaning up after a big meal, it's summer and people are on the deck, someone has dirty hands entering from garage through mudroom, etc. Include all the people you think will be present when you do this thinking.

Your family room looks more like the "keeping room" that others have sought, since the fireplace is so close to the kitchen. That's a whopping sized mudroom. The route between kitchen and the dining room is even more odd than the one in my house that has just been eliminated for its oddity. The family/living room and dining room look to be in wrong order. And where's the front hall closet? I suppose it's too late to completely rethink this kitchen?

Hello,
Thank you so very much all your inputs. They really force me to keep looking from all angles.

Before I respond to them, I want to share 3 more things: see below.
- 1st picture is the CURRENT layout of my kitchen/diningroom/closed-familyroom.
- 2nd is the blank slate. I would love for help in designing it from scratch.
- 3rd is the previous layout that I like.

The appliances we already own:
- 32" wide all fridge, and all freezer
- 42" copper hood
- Advantium
- I really want 2 dishwashers (one to use daily, the other as a draining rack and for parties)

1: While I love the close proximity of everything in my current small kitchen, when my husband tries to bake while I'm cooking (like homemade pizza crust, while I'm sauteing the spinach and garlic chicken for the toppings) and when my kids are older and want to cook with me, this "one-butt" kitchen doesn't work. (Do you love how my lone freezer is sitting next to the French doors, getting slammed every time we open the door?)

2: All walls/windows are staying, except for the long wall along the deck. Anything along that wall can change, except for the 3 French door (next to the word PATIO). Would really love your thoughts.

3: My previous layout (no diningroom table, and the layout is not in perfect scale).
I like the MY zone, vs. my husband/kids' zone. I still get a lot of windows, my wall ovens (I don't want to bend over w/ a huge hot tray anymore)

I will be back soon!
Thank you again,
Amanda

Current kitchen:

Blank slate:

Thank you very much for your thought-provoking questions/ideas.

My problem for any layout is that I don't have enough wall space (because of the open kitchen, and on top of that, I want tons of windows. So that really just leaves the way by the pantry. I also want a wall oven/Advantium stacked, instead of under the counter because I don't want to bend down for heavy hot stuff. So everything is stretched out long, so the result is a lot of walking. I also seem to have a lot of appliances.

Another problem is that I have a diningroom table that extends out to 12feet long. If I put in an island, the full table will not fit in the current diningroom with the island. So I thought to swap it w/ the long livingroom, which we rarely use. But we do use the diningroom table daily.

This layout derived from my inspiration: Allison's copper and pine kitchen (see picture). I thought to center my copper hood along the window wall, and have the island parallel it.

RMKITCHEN: see my current 1-butt kitchen. It's cozy but there are times when I have to wait until DH is done w/ what he needs to do and move out of the way before I can do my stuff, like even reaching for the paper towel. W/ the range at the peninsula, we don't use the 2 stools for any meals/snacks. Even snacks are at the diningroom table, so I've gotten used to trekking from the pantry to the table, and back to the fridge (by pantry) to get the ketchup back to the table, etc.
Separating the 2 island seating because I was trying to make the island as narrow as possible to be as far from the porch door and possible. I don't want people to come in a bang right into an island/stool.
I do think the $7K cost in cabinets allows me for more personalization (like the 30" deep cabinets and sizing, staining, etc).

BUEHL: the only wall that can change is the top wall (where the hood is on), anything to the left of the 3 French doors.
I will check w/ insulating the crawlspace so I'm not limited to where I have pipes.
Not sure if we can remove the small wall near pantry; there's a lot of electrical/oil switch stuff. But if I do remove it, I would gain 5". Would that be enough to allow me to open the fridge door (including handle)? Let me test it.

PALIMPSEST: interesting thought about putting freezer by itself.
I am having trouble w/ fitting 2 stools at the island. Back to the drawing board.

RHOME410: All feedback is appreciated. Easier to make changes now than after everything is ordered, etc.
I knew it's a tight squeeze to put all the fridge/freezer/DO in that little wall. But that allowed me to follow my inspiration kitchen (see above). But good point about repair, etc.
Florantha called my TV room a "keeping room", which I think is a more appropriate term. W/ my current kitchen, we had moved temporarily the sofa out of the familyroom (where my future mudroom will be) so the kids can use the huge jumphouse. But my friends liked sitting there while I finish up cooking, etc, so much that we didn�t move it for over a year! So when I designed the kitchen, I swapped the diningroom so that people can hang out before dinner (our playdate/dinners usually goes from 3-8pm, where we eat for only 1hour of that). So why not give my guests an area to hang out in while I prep?
Would the keeping room still be too tight if I remove the 2 large chairs and put in smaller ones like these, or no chairs at all?
{{gwi:1640740}}
We plan to get a small L-shaped sectional in the future.

RESEARCH_QUEEN: I did try to fit the fridge/freezer/DO over to the mudroom wall. Not only do they not fit (too deep/covers the windows), but there is no easy landing spot.
We already own the fridge/freezers; I really like them.

FLORANTHA: Good points about how it will function w/ parties, etc. We do hosts several parties, and one large (70 people) one a year. My current kitchen is so small and it can handle the parties (that's why DH doesn't understand why we need to renovate at all), so I'd be happy w/ even 1 more foot of countertop.
It's New England (and this winter w/ all the snow/sleet, etc), and I desperately want a mudroom. I would trade a masterbath for a mudroom, yes, indeed.
Not too late to rethink the kitchen. In fact, I've tweaked layout #17. Will post it soon.

Thank you!
Amanda

WHat is it you like about Allison's kitchen? If it's the view of the island centered in front of the range, you won't have that, as it's partly behind a wall? And your islands seem quite different. The size and gracious space around it in the inspiration pic is something you won't be able to have.

Your last plan looks more comfy and natural to me. Easier flow.

I like your last plan better, however: Why do you want an island? If you explained already, I'm sorry I missed it. But as rhome410 said, you are never going to have the look of Allison's kitchen in terms of the island view. Never, ever.

But you are ignoring one of the best features that you do have: the fireplace. I suggest leaving your top wall more or less as is, and focusing on how to make that fireplace into a comfortable and useful focal point.

You could try an island (if you must) with a TV located where the stools are. Or maybe just hanging on a knee wall. Or reverse the order, and back a banquette or sofa up against a knee wall/bookcase/island. Or eliminate an island entirely, and define the area with a love seat facing "down."

Many people here would kill to have a "keeping room" setup like you already enjoy.

RHOME410: I connected to Allison's kitchen because of the copper hood and the wood beams, which I have. And I love those cabinets! But you're right, my kitchen layout is nothing like it. (I thought about moving my porch wall out 5feet, but that doesn't help my keeping room layout much).

MARCOLO: just my DH's point: anything w/ an island ignores/diminishes the potential of the fireplace.
What do you think of the KeepingRoom layout? How would you tweak it?

Okay, so I tweaked my layout#15 to become #17. And I think I like it.

-->HELP VOTE:
1. Have a "keeping room" (and the diningroom over in the other room)? Or
2. Keep it as a diningroom, no island?

--> My current livingroom is ~12'x23'. Would it be wasteful to give that up (and turn it into a diningroom) and squeeze into the ~12'x12' "keepingroom"?

I'm still leaning toward #1 because I get:
- My own zone, and DH/kids have theirs
- to keep many of my windows
- 2 comfortable peninsula seating for my kids
- A sitting area for my guests while I prep
- My wall ovens
- 30" deep cabinets
- My beautiful copper hood
- DH bakes infrequently; I'll share my cooking zone (30"x69") w/ his baking, or he can use the peninsula, right next to the oven.
- my mudroom

Cons:
- No prep sink, but I've never had one and the sink (at the window) is large enough
- Is the location for glasses/dishes too far from the Dishwasher? I want the dishes low for my kids to be able to get. Only other storage place possible is on the wall around the hood; too high. I'm sick of stools everywhere.

Problem with this layout is that it's not very pretty. It's all FUNCTION over Form.
So any suggestions on how to add style to it?

keeping room

diningroom

Thank you very much.
Amanda