The following image is another view of the kitchen design, looking at the sink and the doors to the pantry, fridge, and garage.

Hi,

I just realized that the birds' eye view still includes the door frame to the dining room, which should not be there. Sorry about that. I have no way of editing the image.

One thing I notice right away is that you have a walk path between your sink and range. We used to have that and it was one of the main reasons I wanted to redo our layout. (Kids were always running between the sink and the pot of boiling water I needed to dump out, 7 feet away.) How badly do you want to open the wall between the DR and kitchen? It seems as though the room would be easier to lay out if the DR door was shifted down the wall toward the bottom (in your overhead view); then you could have a continuous cabinet run in an L shape between sink and range and your work zone would be better protected from traffic.

We also have the situation where the only exterior kitchen window now looks onto an added-on room. We added a tube skylight to bring in natural light. I won't say that the skylight is the prettiest thing I've ever seen (glowing circle on the ceiling), but the room is much less gloomy with it. For actual kitchen work I rely on the task lighting we put in. Definitely use undercab lights and whatever else you need to get light onto your work surfaces. (Don't let any contractor or cabinet person tell you that undercab lights are a "perk" or an "upgrade," which implies that you could do without them if you need to save money. They are a necessity. Mine were very inexpensive, details later if you want.)

Thanks, northcarolina!

I wish I had something better to post, but we can't move the DR door entry either, because it is the main way to get from the kitchen area to the den. Plus there is a staircase at the far end of the DR that is in line with the DR/kitchen entryway. It just flows better. I thought about changing the garage door entry so it would all be one straight line, and I could get a bit more space in the kitchen that way, but the solar water heating line is there. Ugh.

Our current kitchen design has the sink across the traffic flow, and we've survived so far, so maybe it's ok. I have four boys ages 9, 7, 6, and 2 by the way. We thought about putting the sink on the proposed peninsula area, but it's just not big enough. We need the double sink with all these boys.

There is nothing wrong with saying "Out of the kitchen!" if you have no other options. Surely people don't have to be streaming through the kitchen at every crucial second.

But have you thought about creating an L shaped kitchen that utilized the recessed closet area in the garage and placing refrigerator and pantry on the current range wall?

You would lose some of the current closet to the kitchen but it could be accessed from the den. I don't know if there is enough counterspace to do this but it's with examining.

What about thinking twice about shifting the DR door? Just enough to make an L shape possible? That would really improve the traffic flow through the kitchen. And yes, it might me less symmetrical in the DR, but really examine how it would change the traffic flow through there. It might not be as bad as you think it will.

This is part 1 of a design that the designer proposed to us recommending just what you say, making an L-possible. Part 2 to come, showing another angle. Maybe I should backup and ask what the definite advantage is to the L-shape, when your triangle is wrecked anyway since the fridge crosses a circulation path? The tradeoff is no closet pantry space nor the peninsula to accomodate this L. Part 2 will show another angle....

This post was edited by mom3boys_fporfl on Wed, Jan 2, 13 at 16:35

Here is the fridge. No peninsula in this design and the counter on the side is strange to me. Is it really worth giving up the pantry space and the peninsula for the L-shape? It does seem to flow better, but won't working at the range be ultra dark?

This post was edited by mom3boys_fporfl on Wed, Jan 2, 13 at 16:33

The most used space in any kitchen is the stretch between the sink and the range. When you have a continuous run of counter space between the two, your 70% of the time you spen doing prep is efficient, and there is no traffic between the two major centers. It's OK to have the fridge be more distant, as you usually "shop" out of the food storage areas and then go to the sink to wash and prep and then to the stove to cook.

Although a traditional galley is fairly efficient if the space in between the two legs isn't too large, there's a lot of back and forth between the sink and the range. That's usually fine, if you don't have feet problems and there's no traffic through the space. With traffic, it becomes more of an issue and a safety hazard.

Could I see the floorplan of the L-configuration above?

In that one I would flip the DW over to the left of the sink.

Palimpsest,

I do not have a floorplan of the L-config from our designer, unfortunately. I talked it over with the hubby tonight and although we like the idea of the L-, we are ultimately against it for a couple of reasons:

1) We have a big family (6) including 4 boys who will be teenagers before we know it. We really feel like we want as much pantry space as possible for stocking bulk discount items, especially cereal, juice, spaghetti sauce, and the like, which will be stored no problem in the pantry area of the first design. We measured it, and it may offer up to 84 ft of linear space, 10-12" wide. We just don't have any other area on the first floor that would accommodate that much food. I don't think the pantry space offered in the L-config is nearly comparable.

2) We really liked the idea of the peninsula for socialization between the cook and the folks in the dining room, since the area doesn't accommodate an island. Also, in the L-config, nothing is "built-in" so it might feel like a cluttered area. Maybe I should follow up with the designer and seek another configuration which would lend itself to more pantry space, but it's tricky.

3) Given how much space we're gaining in the pantry for storage, we're thinking we *may* be able to get away with a scenario where we could remove the wall/above-counter cabinetry to the left of the sink in the original design so we could create a more open feel to the back den. People might even be able to sit at the left corner of that counter, but there is a doorway to the den there from the dining room, which may shorten the length we could otherwise run it. I don't know if the symmetry problem that causes is a big deal or not?

We are hoping that since there is another pathway through the house from the stairs/dining room to the living room (via the far side of the dining room), if I need to I *can* tell the kids to stay out of the kitchen.

We are a little worried though that when someone comes in from the garage or the living room, there is some close proximity to a potentially hot stove. But our current stove is right next to the dining room/kitchen doorway with no counter buffer and we've worked it out.

Thanks everyone for all feedback so far!! This is really wonderful.

I just realized I really need to prepare a better floorplan to the adjacent rooms. Too much verbiage. I will post soon.

Perhaps I'm not seeing it properly, but it looks as if you have a range hood and cabinet above the peninsula to the dining room. What are the heights of these? Standing at your normal height, can you see directly into the other space? If not, get rid of the uppers and/or move the range so the hood isn't obstructing the view. We're currently (and for the last year, ugh) in the middle of a remodel that includes taking out upper cabinets that split a space like that. So frustrating -- always bending and peering and shouting over the noise of the hood at the folks seated at the table on the other side. An all-counter run or even sink would be much more functional there. And NO uppers. IMHO, of course!

Mizinformation,

Actually, we are thinking of putting the microwave above the range. You are correct in seeing it that way (uppers along the "south" wall), but only along the back wall, not on the peninsula part itself (the "west" side of the kitchen). This is actually not a problem since the wall of the dining room is slightly shallower than the kitchen. The cabinets above the peninsula are going to be above head level for glasses/decorative items only. I should post better sketches...sorry! But thanks so much for the feedback!

This post was edited by mom3boys_fporfl on Thu, Jan 3, 13 at 1:49

Question for all who've responded or may still yet see this:

What if, for the purposes of traffic issues, we changed the original design to have the sink and the range on the same counter run? We would have the room to fit an oven to the right of the sink if we move the dishwasher to the left of the sink with no traffic problems, but then what would we do with our drying rack? If we put it to the left of the sink then it would be too noticeable on that prominent location, especially if we end up opening that wall, wouldn't it? If we end up opening the wall, though, won't we have some flexibility to move the sink to the left so maybe a drying rack could still sit to the right of the sink but I'd still have counterspace to the left of the range on a counter? That drying rack is a big pain, but I do use it all the time. So will my 4 boys over the coming 15 years or so.

So maybe I keep the range where it is in our original plan and just don't make pasta all too often?

To all who responded:

Please refer to the new post regarding our new design.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0123070317089.html

I would welcome your comments so much!!

Thanks!

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Layout help, please

This post was edited by mom3boys_fporfl on Sat, Jan 12, 13 at 10:14