Thanks!

I think you have a lemon, a very sour lemon. Many states have excellent lemon laws, and although some apply only to cars, contacting your state's Attorney General office could get you some assistance and/or information on how to proceed. Kick it up a notch!

I'm considering purchasing the same unit, so I will follow your progress with great interest. Thanks for posting your question.

I have the architect gas convection range which was just installed 1.5 months ago. I've not used the self cleaning mode yet. To tell you the truth I'm a little afraid to.

I bought Kitchenaid b/c of all the brands KA was touted by everyone else that I knew (that were owners of KA) plus the appliance guy. The appliance store where I purchased my appliances has a great reputation. I may be a sucker but I bought Kitchenaid anyway.

First, the metal plate that frames the contol panel does not fit properly. The repair guy came out and brought another one, which fit worse than the original. His comment was "none of them fit right." During the same visit, he replaced the control panel because of an intermittant problem with one of the burners not coming on when the knob was turned. When fixing dinner last night, I discovered this problem is back.

In addition to the above frustrations, the broiler does not work. When turned on, it glows for no more than a minute, then dies out ... no heat, no browning, no nothing. Unfortunately, we are out of warranty. I discovered the broiler issue after it expired because I almost never broil.

My advice to anyone who buys this stove is test EVERYTHING as soon as you get it ... every oven function, stove function, cleaning. Kitchenaid used to be a really good brand, one of the best, but now I'm not so sure. Overall, this oven/range has been one big, expensive disappointment.

By the way, has anyone else had the broiler problem? Seeing as so many have had the cleaning/blown fuse issue, I thought maybe others have had a bum broiler too.

I'll keep you all posted. Thank you for the feedback.

We have a model KEBC177KSS03 Superba purchased 2 years ago. The thermostat (part number 4452223) has failed every time we put the oven on self cleaning cycle.

KitchenAid has offered to pay for the part (big deal) but not the labor, so we are out $180. Georgia lemon law covers only vehicles, so we will have to decide if we want to go to small claims court.

I have the KGSA906PSS and this stove started out having a problem with only the off button (had to set timer to shut off) but then it went completely out when I attempted a self clean.

My repair man stated it would work after fixing but he added no extra insulation to avoid the circuitry from becoming to hot which I have read is the problem. Maybe it's considered a modification and would void a warrany if he did something like that.

KitchenAid should do a complete recall of these models. It appears that lemon laws do not protect most of us and for the price of this unit it's not easy to replace at our cost.

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT when I said I no longer trust Whirlpool.

They make so many brands and have now lost the intent to take care of their customer base.

They make so many brands that all they are doing is sticking a different name plate of them but underneath you are getting the same design from their same knowledge captial.

If you purchase a KitchenhAid you purchase a Whilrpool. If you purchase a Maytag you purchase a Whilrpool... you will get the same parts and the same type of service.. that's all there is to it.

May 14th we received our new oven: stupid us. Same oven. In previous homes we had had wonderful experiences with Kitchen Aid ovens and saw no reason not to purchase (with replacement dollars mind you) another since (1) the one we'd just stuggled with was a 'lemon' and (2) the fault would surely have been redesigned 2.5 years later and that faulty machine would no longer be manufactured! Well, we cleaned it on the 21st, it went o-u-t; we called Sears for another repair but this time on the new and, hopefully, improved oven. They came out, ordered the part, and came back today (31st) to install it. The tech suggested that, unless we wanted to see more of him, we just not use the self-cleaning option. What's wrong with this picture? New oven, problem (now wasn't ours a 'lemon'?) still exists. And per this website it's not only our oven. How very sad.

This forum has shown me the error of our thoughts. I think our next step will be to not clean the oven any more, to use the canned cleaning product, AND to take the issue to our local small claims court. This is so wrong and arrogant. We've been dealing with Sears, where we purchased the oven, but obviously the problem is deeper than them. Sad sad sad. It seems to lie with Kitchen Aid. Or Whirlpool. Brand loyalty is no longer of any concern to these large companies it seems.

Good luck to us all. I'll come back with reports of our progress.

It would be interesting to find out how widespread the problem is. 10%? 50%?

What is different about a stove that never fails compared to one that always fails? There must be some sort of balancing act going on regarding assembly quality and design. The thermal fuses are likely installed to protect something, perhaps some much more critical or expensive but poorly chosen component that might otherwise be destroyed during an over temperature condition produced during self cleaning.

Something that might result in a big, expensive, warranty sinkhole or maybe a profit killer if recalls needed. Maybe some day when it's time to junk one of these "fuse eaters" somebody could set it up in a safe place, cheat all the thermal fuses, run the self clean and see just what happens.

Somebody..................... called "Myth Busters" perhaps?

Sadly KA is one of those brand names that seems to be trading on past reputation with no thought to future reputation.

Does anyone here know how to replace a thermal fuse? Can DH do it himself? He's pretty handy and he's replaced the hinges himself.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

My kitchen is full of KA appliances too - floor to countertop. I try to do my research before I buy but this time it appears I missed the mark. I wonder if Consumer Reports has caught onto this problem.

A year or so ago, the stove started making periodic random triple beeps for no apparent reason at all. On another post/forum, someone said to throw the circuit breaker and leave it off for a while, then turn it back on. That seemed to do the trick for a while, but now the beeping is back. (And turning breaker off/on this time didn't do much).

Service is supposed to call me Monday to schedule a visit re: beeps, but after reading everything above, I think I'll run the clean cycle tomorrow!

Good thing is that I bought the extended warranty, which I then extended again, and I have the renewal notice due Aug. 10! I think I'll put this baby through the paces tomorrow!

KA told me their is probably a short somewhere and the entire ciruit board will eventually have to be replaced. I am just waiting for the day it dies. I do wonder though if it that thermal whatever you are talking about.

I think I'll renew that warranty after all...

Ugh!!!!

I have to pay for the repairs even though it is no longer my oven. I am shocked that KitchenAid is not recalling the ovens . Do we pay extra for self-cleaning when what we really bought is self-breaking?????

Have the repair person coming out. KitchenAid claims that the circuit panel is covered through 2002 (I pay for labor). We should really start a class action lawsuit since it seems to be a common problem!

Anyone who has had this problem and fixed it please advise. I can't even replace the control pad if the door is locked shut! I LOVE my kitchen aid! I am broken hearted :-(

Phillykecks@aol.com

Heather

I had the same nightmare w/Dacor as you are all reporting w/KA. What a hunk of $$ junk! Personally, I think the problem has to do w/the combo of digitalized touch pads and high heat - imo, heat and computer chips are not a functional combination. In fact, I wish that digital equipment on ranges was not allowed.

I've had plenty of self-cleaning ovens in my life time. While it's true that the incinerating action has never been beneficial for the oven - it's never, in my experience, caused the whole thing to break down - until now - w/digital touch pads.

I wonder too if the thermal fuse breakdown situation is just another example of Nanny regulations (for our 'safety') that causes more problems than it solves? Anyone recall when cotton baby sleep-wear was abolished in favor of 'fire retardant' (but lousy) polyester? Are these fuses set to shut down a too hot oven ' for 'our own good'?

Anyone here in Canada, please email me, I am making it my mission to bring these people down, they can't treat customers like this, KA HAS to be forced to recall their ovens and FIX the problem once and for all, or not sell ovens. I am gong to initiate an investigation with the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, and if I can get enough people in tow with me I plan to initiate a Class Action Law Suit against them. I can be reached at maxinecooper at rogers dot com.

Please if you are fed up with KA, contact me, lets bring them down to their knees. We as consumers have a right to stand up and fight when we are being bullied by a corporate giant.

Dear Ms Cidalia Culhane;
I am dumb founded by your empty response to my request. I read many platitudes and apologies but you are not willing to take responsibility for the oven you produce regardless of where your parts come from.
My family has always been loyal to the Kitchenaid name, knowing that we could always depend on your good name and excellent customer service. I guess those days are gone.
My wife and I carefully chose the new products we placed in our newly remodeled kitchen. One of which was the convection oven we were excited about getting as we have always had a cheaper electric conventional oven. We hadn't the need to use the self-cleaning cycle since we bought the oven until a couple of weeks ago. The oven has received very light use, as we are empty nesters.
I could understand your response if the oven were a few years old and it was well used but its not. This oven is new and only out of warranty since September.
By your poor response to a $50 reimbursement, this will cost your company any future purchases of any kind by myself, my family, my friends and their families and friends. You are practicing a silly policy. I will be forwarding this e-mail to the administrators of your company.
Sincerely,
Joseph Soulagnet

From:
Date: 2007/11/02 Fri PM 03:14:23 CDT
To: Kitchenaid_customerexperience@Kitchenaid.com
Subject: Re: RE: Kitchenaid.com Contact Form Submission

From: Kitchenaid_customerexperience@Kitchenaid.com
Date: 2007/11/02 Fri PM 03:14:23 CDT
To:
Subject: RE: Kitchenaid.com Contact Form Submission

Dear Mr. Soulagnet:

Thank you for visiting the KitchenAid web site. We appreciate hearing from you.

We're sorry to hear of the problem you experienced with your KitchenAid oven. When one of our appliances fails to meet a customer's expectations it concerns us, as we take pride in the quality of our products. We know how disappointing it is whenever any manufactured item requires servicing.

Since we are also consumers, we certainly understand your frustration. Although we try to use only the best materials on the market today, we cannot guarantee there will be no repairs or part replacements needed during the appliance's lifetime. Components do deteriorate or fail on occasion due to factors over which we have no control. We cannot explain what factors have contributed to your concern since no recalls or known issues are present with this model or with the component that has malfunctioned. Experience shows defects in manufacturing or poor workmanship are usually reported well within the first several months from purchase, and KitchenAid goes beyond this in providing a warranty against this type of problem for one full year.

Unfortunately, we do not reimburse for out of warranty parts. We apologize for any inconvenience this concern may have caused.

We invite you to contact KitchenAid again either by calling (800) 422-1230 between 8:00am to 8:00pm EST weekdays or by emailing whenever the need arises. When calling please press the available option or stay on the line to reach a representative.

Sincerely,

Cidalia Culhane
KitchenAid Customer Loyalty Team
KitchenAid Customer eXperience Center
http://www.KitchenAid.com

*If replying, please use Forward verses Reply or New as that will leave this message intact and will help us to respond faster.

[THREAD ID:1-5NHWOS]

-----Original Message-----

From:
Sent: 11/1/2007 08:47:16 PM
To: info@kitchenaid.com
Subject: Kitchenaid.com Contact Form Submission

class: Prebuy
form: KitchenAid
subject: KitchenAid Corporate
first_name: Joseph
last_name: Soulagnet
add1:
add2:
city:
state:
zip:
country: United States
web_form_email:
contact_by_ph:
fax_ph:
model: KEBC107KBL
serial: XT2011005
contact_method: Email
product: Oven
body: To Whom It May Concern;
I own a KEBC107KBL Oven. I have had this in very light service in my home since 9/23/06. I used the self cleaning cycle for the first time last week. The cleaning cycle worked but did not come back on. I did the trouble shooting and found that the oven shutdown thermal fuse was not functioning. I bought a thermal fuse through Appliance Refrigeration Hospital, one of your Kitchen Aid Reps for $46.46 including shipping. I would like to be reimbursed for the part as you can understand that I might be a bit irritated about the whole situation. I understand that my warranty is up but I think it would be in your best interest to make me happy.
Joseph Soulagnet

regarding: KitchenAid Corporate
phone_type: Evening
response: Y
opt_in: N

You don't choose your family. They are God's gift to you, as you are to them. ~Desmond Tutu

Thank you for visiting the KitchenAid web site. We appreciate hearing from you. We are very sorry to learn that after you self cleaned your double oven, KEBC207KSS05, XT0810208, now the upperoven won't heat. We apologize for your inconvenience. Unfortunately, we are not technicians and are unable to diagnose your oven from our location. We do not see a "fuse" onthe parts list, and doubt that every single repair situation takes the exact same parts. There are is no recall or rework on your model. Any authorized servicer should be able to properly diagnose your unit andrepair it so you can use your self clean feature. Before you call for service, we suggest you turn off the circuit breaker to the ovens for 5-15 minutes to see if the unit willreset itself. Thank you for allowing us to assist you today.

Ummm, excuse me? There is no "FUSE" on the parts list? I must have looked at the wrong parts list! Because it's the same thermal fuse that fails on all of these ovens. Of course they won't stand behind the problem, and since I can no longer count on Kitchen Aid to be a quality product, I will never again purchase anything from the Kitchen Aid brand.

I was pretty surprised that they couldn't care less about customer satisfaction.

Has anyone had a successful resolution from Whirlpool?

Does anyone know if there is a solution (i.e. workaround, repair kit, etc.)?

Wish me luck. Ugh!

Ps.: I'm interested in pursuing this with the company, too. I'll keep you posted. This is an outrage that KA/Whirlpool would keep selling these ovens with a clear track record of failures.

I am not 100% sure but my old oven was also a KitchenAid. When we were buying the house a friend told me not to use the clean cycle or it would fry the oven....she had the same oven and this had already happened to her twice.

So i never used it for fear of this happening. After the third time that it happened to her they got rid of it; it just wasn't worth investing any more repairs in it.

The interesting thing here is that these ovens were easily ten years old and probably more.
So this is a problem that has been around for a looooong time. Her repairman told her it was an issue with them.

Good luck to all of you

And i will be testing the clean mode on my new oven even though it is not a Kitchen Aid. Want to be sure there are no issues with it before that warranty expires.

Does anyone know if replacing the fuse(s) will fix this? Others have reported that the control panel lights up but that the oven won't heat. In my case the control panel is completely dead. I would hate to replace the fuses only to find that the control panel is dead.

thanks for any info

What these fuses are "protecting" and why the protection is necessary is apparently a deep, dark, secret. Just like how widespread the problem really is.

I used this site extensively during my remodel almost 3 years ago...THANK YOU! Love it!

In any case, I got the KitchenAid stove KGSA906pbl Slide in stove, but only use the oven portion occasionally. Therefore, I hadn't needed to try the self clean feature in all that time. I decided to give it a whirl last night. I set it for the "quick" clean and it all seemed to be working. The panel told me the start/end time and that the door was locked. When we woke up we found the whole control panel completely dead.

Being Sunday, I decided to do a quick Google search and it brought be back to this gardenweb thread....my old favorite hang out, but unfortunately to this horrible news!!!

Is there a class action suit or an official recall yet? I guess my fight will begin bright and early tomorrow morning! Boy and I fuming though.....what a crock of crap that they don't seem to be taking responsibility for such a wide spread defect/issue!! I can't even open the door to the oven as it's still locked out!

If anyone has any new info or tips on my getting something done, please please please let me know! Thanks!

I have a KEBC107KSS05 which I bought in Sept 2006, was installed Jan 2007. And for the first time, I used the auto-cleaning program for 2h30m (it wasn't very dirty).

Obviously, this is a manufacturing defect. A well designed oven should not blow anything when use within its specification limits.

If you're not already familiar with it, you should read about the Magnusson-Moss warranty act which gives gives a lot of information about implied warranties. Here's an excerpt:

"Implied warranties are unspoken, unwritten promises, created by state law, that go from you, as a seller or merchant, to your customers. Implied warranties are based upon the common law principle of "fair value for money spent" ...
... Generally, there is no specified duration for implied warranties under state laws. However, the state statutes of limitations for breach of either an express or an implied warranty are generally four years from date of purchase. This means that buyers have four years in which to discover and seek a remedy for problems that were present in the product at the time it was sold."

Should I reconsider? I wonder how much the extended warranty would cost? Still you have the headaches of calling a repair guy after cleaning.

"Jerry of Huntsville TX (02/07/08)
After reading all the complaints about KitchenAid oven failures during or after clean cycle, and all the multiple failures of the same type, and customers being charged over and over for the same fix , I must say something. Yes, there has been an ongoing problem with these ovens for around seven years. I should know because I have repaired many. The failure on the first models required a modification kit called a blower kit. During the high temperatures of the clean cycle, hot air escaping out of the oven cavity through the door seal is sucked up by the fan that is supposed to cool the outer cabinet. This hotter than normal air causes the thermal safety to open. This model did not have a fuse at the control board . It did have a thermal fuse on the back of the oven, left of center. If this model failed, the controls still worked but would not bake.

The fix is to replace the rear thermal fuse, replace the blower motor with a larger blower, replace the door seal, which is usually hardened, disassemble the door and add another piece of glass, and install a shim kit on the door hinges. When you need an appliance fixed, call around to some local businesses like real estate agents [for referral], plumbers electricians. Don't just pick some one out of the yellow pages. Most of the multiple repairs are because they were not repaired right the first time. Don't pay for anything until the job is done. And don't call Sears."

Writing letters to the head honcho at Whirlpool seems the way to go. Not only about product quality but also the apparent stonewalling/minimal fixes policy in place to defend and deflect away from it.

This is the FIX? and who is going to pay for this? It sounds like you need an entire new unit that has been redesigned from the bottom up.

anyone know?

Let us know if pulling the oven away from the wall works when self-cleaning. That would be a workaround I could deal with once in a while.

Kitchenaid is wrong...so wrong! I had a wall oven ordered and CANCELLED it, after reading this thread and other reviews online.

YES, THE FUSE KEEPS BLOWING AND THEY WILL KEEP REPLACING IT FOR AS LONG AS YOU PAY AND YOUR INCONVENIENCE.

This is NOT a gaz oven, this is the electric oven.

Thanks a lot !

Thanks

I have a kitchenaid range, and I don't love it. Aside from the self-cleaning problem: the grates are too high from the burners and only the power-burner gets hot enough to boil water in under 1/2 hour; The grates are a matte, rough porcelain enamel which is impossible to clean; The power burner grate is uneven and pans rock back and forth over it making it impossible to get a level surface (oil runs to one side of the pan); The timer randomly refuses to chime about in about 1 in 20 uses, a few ruined meals before we learned not to trust the timer.

Good luck!

Hmmm, the url doesn't seem to get to the right place, but it does get to the forums.

In ascii format:
All Forums
-> Cooking Products (ovens, cooktops, etc)
--> Ranges
---> Thermal fuse- Concerns

Mark

Paid: $1466.00 on 12-27-04 from ABT appliance in the Chicago area (a very large retailer). Did not buy warranty, and I'm OK with that!

2nd cleaning, no heat... But WOW is that oven clean! I'm thinking about cremating my pets in that oven when I replace the fuse! Got anything that needs incinerating? I'll only charge you $40.00. Just so ya know size is limited and I only got one shot at it!!!

DW (Darling wife) reported to have uneven baking issues while in convection! I'm pissed, I remember those batches. To think what I could've had! DW you still over came the Whirlpool/KA Corporate Machine and made a damn fine cookie!

So now I go to Joe Klett (Director of sales) at ABT appliance and get the CEO's name and address of said company, and send this and other posts in one FAT letter. I will also let Joe know of these complaints and ask him about class action lawsuits. Maybe think about steering his sales people away from said company. Can you say VOLUME!

Shame on me for being tied to the kitchen remodling business and buying such a (pardon me, I'm venting) shitty service and product!

JIM

PS: Over 60 complaints from 9/06 to 10/08. Hmmmmmmm....

This is on top of the fact that I replaced the grates because the coating bubbled and then fell off. Plus the coating on the top itself cracked and chipped off. All on a range that was 2 years old.

The dealer suggested a call to KA. That was a waste of time. The explaination was that there is no way to predict how long parts will last and they can fail. When I stated that I will never buy another KA appliance and will tell everyone I know about our issues the response from KA rep was "thank you have a good evening"

I was considering KitchenAid appliances. There is NO WAY I would purchase KA after reading this thread. I am so thankful for everyone sharing this information.

What a monumental disappointment in what I thought was such a fine company!

We just bought the KA slide in electric range. Does this cleaning issue affect only built ins or free standing and slide in ranges also?

As this been corrected yet by KA?

I am really considering switching to GE Profile instead of KA.

We have a kitchen full of the KitchenAid Superba appliances...and so far we have replaced our dishwasher, the double-oven has blown and the ice-maker on the fridge has shot water all over my floor twice (not to mention that my food freezes on the warm setting).

We just moved in November 24th, 2008.

I wish I would have never pushed that crazy clean button!!! Oh well, at least we got through the holidays. Any suggestions for a replacement?

Thanks

Gary

It's hard to believe that the problem is because there are too many cabinets around. It's designed just for that. Looking at the oven, it looks like the fan pulls air in the bottom and exits it out the top. And with enough air flow it should dispate the heat out of the oven. Now if the fan fails the heat builds up the fuse opens, preventing a fire. I have an older (80s) KA double wall oven now and it has never had this problem. I only clean the oven in the winter.

I wonder if the thermal fuse has been correctly specified. Does anyone have the manufacture part # for this fuse? It would be interesting to see what the temperature of the exit air is compared to the thermal fuse trip point temperature during the clean cycle. Another possibility is that the thermal fuses are faulty. How much did the thermal fuse cost?

This leads to the question:
Has the problem been fixed on newer models? What fix/improvement has been proposed to address this problem?

Thanks to all those who have contributed to this topic. Please keep us updated with any new developments.

thank you.

can anyone say definitely whether this "self clean" problem on KitchenAid built-in wall ovens has been solved and corrected?

thank you.

I realize that wall ovens would be much more difficult for changing this fuse, but at least for Range owners it is an easy do-it-yourself fix for $5-$10, assuming the price of the fuse has gone up somewhat in the past 15 years.

I guess this shows that this design flaw has been around for a LOT longer than most of you realize, since most of the posts here are talking about appliances that were bought in the early 2000's. Mine was bought in 1992 or 1993.

BTW, It has been sitting in my bedroom, unused for 6 years, and due to ecomonic circumstances I had to sell my wolf range. I re-installed my Kitchenaid range, and it still works fine.... I even ran a self clean cycle and it didn't burn out the fuse. I'm not going to risk running it again though for at least a year.... no sense tempting fate, and I do not have any spare fuses...

So, the tech made some adjustment to the fan and set it on self clean for a while to let it get really hot. Then it didn't seem to be vibrating or as noisy. Weather or not it will do the not cutting off thing again who knows?

Otherwise, I really do like this oven and I hope it does not do this again. I plan on testing it out over the next year. Even if I don't need to use the oven, I'll set it on 450 and let it run on that for an hour or more, and see how the fan handles it.

Cynthia

You should contact the company and request to speak with a manager to discuss this safety problem. Be persistent! As a servicer for them, they usually are helpful when you call with service facts in hand.

It would be prudent when you dispose of your problem KitchenAid range that you protect yourself by ensuring that it is permanently scratched "Danger-Do not use", smash the control panel, remove and separately discard all easy to access plug in boards and the model/serial number tag. Try to ensure it goes directly to recycling or landfill.

After all your grief, don't let it reach back once you are free and legally bite you courtesy of some "compulsive re-user" unaware of the danger.

Thanks

The salesman says the KitchenAid ranges had the problems corrected and they are reliable. But this thread says otherwise except for this new model that Monica has had for 4 years with no problems.

Anybody with this model that has an update for me?

I at first loved the NXR and still do but I would like a Probe as well as the Self-Clean feature as long as it does not destroy my oven.

dito here. Anyone know the solution to this problem? We cook our turkey for three hours and after that the "remove probe" problem. Solutions appreciated.