I read your post explaning water based finishing product and I would like to disagree, meaning no disrespect. I used to finish with lacquer until I read some articles about the new waterbased finishes and how you couldn't tell the waterbased finish from nitrocelouse lacquer finish. I tried both Hydrocote and General. They both work well and look the same as the n/c lacquer. I got the same color with either, after the finish dried and also during the spraying process. I never use shellac under the finish. I tried a couple of times but the finish peeled a few weeks later. If I want to color or stain I use a powder water soluble analine dye. If you get orange peel and the surface or your gun are not contaminated, then it may be because you are thinning the product. Even though the product may seem too thick to spray, try it unthinned and you will find it sprays well. My finish of choice is Hydrocote Resisthane Plus because it is cheaper than General by about one third. I just finished a mahogany serpentine Queen Ann chest of drawers I made and the finish came out great. I have never had a problem with orange peel or blue color while spraying. I use no sealer, as instructed on the can. I spray it on, let it dry for one hour, sand and spray the next coat. These finishes brush on very well also. Again, don't thin (you can't judge by your drip gage) and don't undercoat. I'm sure there are other finishes out there that are good but these are the ones I use.

Looks well made.

Did you make the box and thenm saw the top? Or make fitted rabbets?

Handymac: I sawed a groove on the inside, glued them up, then sawed off the top from the outside, making a rabbet in each. I like to saw the lid off after so that I can match the grain pattern all around and not have to worry about any slight variance to square.

Someone: If you use shellac under w/b finish it needs to be dewaxed for best adhesion. I use the shellac when I am refinishing and find or suspect silicone contamination from prior use of Pledge. I also think it can add a lot of depth and chatoyance to some woods.

I kinda suspected you did it that way. I've tried it both ways, the other being making the lid separate from the start. The way you did it is the best way for appearance.

Nice work.
Did you use a table saw and rotate the box against a stop to saw the lid off?
Did you offset the inside groove and outside cut by one saw kerf to achieve a rabbit? That requires a lot of precision.
Did you do any finishing prior to assembly to avoid glue issues?
Just trying to learn as I am not very experienced at box making. Thanks

Thanks
>Nice work.

Yes
>Did you use a table saw and rotate the box against a stop to saw the lid off?

Yes. The technique is to set up a piece a little longer than you need, then use the scrap to set your fence on the blind side.
>Did you offset the inside groove and outside cut by one saw kerf to achieve a rabbit? That requires a lot of precision.

No. Glued it up. Cut off the lid. Cut the slots for the keys on the corner (again using that piece of scrap for a set up guide. I did finish sand the panels and the inside surfaces prior to glue-up.
>Did you do any finishing prior to assembly to avoid glue issues?

When I got my house filled up with furniture, I started building boxes when I needed something to build. I've built several hundred of various types. If I could make a living doing it, I would. But no one realizes it takes more effort and precision to build a shoe-box sized jewelry box than it does a cedar chest.

These are for my twin granddaughters' first birthday. They will be used to for keepsakes that won't fit in a scrapbook.

>Just trying to learn as I am not very experienced at box making. Thanks

I read an article recently, (FWW) where you make the box with the top and bottom together and the rabbets separately. Then when you cut them apart, you cut between the bottom and the top and bring the top up and around. Only problem with this method is the grain doesn't flow as well.

If you don't have a subscription, you can squint at the drawings and get the idea.

Here is a link that might be useful: 2 fast ways to build a box article

bobsmy, thanks for the tips and info. I had no idea that's how boxes were made. I figured that rabbitted stock was the only way. I like to stain and seal anything I can before assembly because I can't be sure that there are no glue squeezuns under tape or that haven't been removed completely. It doesn't look like you needed to stain though.
My grandsons and I made some boxes a couple of months ago to keep "stuff". They were pretty crude because of their "assistance", but good times.
Thanks again.

The other way to make a box like this is to make the box, saw the top off, then fit inserts into the inside slightly taller than the bottom half. They don't need to be real thick, maybe 1/8". Just miter the corners and they will pretty well stay in place by themselves. It also serves to hide the glue squeeze-out on the inside, should there be any.

It holds the top on.

Of course, you can always just add hinges on the back, too. I have a few shop boxes I've made with hinges.

Are the inserts 1/8" thick by maybe 3/4" wide that go all the way around the top inside edge? Also, I guess you could glue square (or better triangular)pieces in the top 4 corners that extend slightly below the bottom edge for alignment?
For corner inserts/keys do you double face tape them to a thicker piece and run then through the jointer or planer to get thin pieces of consistent thickness? I'd be a little worried that the compressibility of the tape might cause a problem. Slice on a table saw?
Just one more question, I made a display case where all three pieces that meet in a corner were mitered to a point where they met and then glued. This showed no end grain and looks the same from any angle. Is this an accepted configuration?
Sorry for all the questions but when you "learn by doing" you want to avoid "doing" something stupid.

I would normaly put the inserts on the bottom and extend them all the way to the bottom of the box. I think you could put them on the lid, but I've always seen them on the bottom. I would thickness these on a planer.
>Are the inserts 1/8" thick by maybe 3/4" wide that go all the way around the top inside edge? Also, I guess you could glue square (or better triangular)pieces in the top 4 corners that extend slightly below the bottom edge for alignment?

I simply rip off some thin strips for the keys, using a table saw. There will be some variation, but I always dry check for a tight fit, but a fit, before committing to gluing it in. So make some extra length. Glue them in, do some rough trimming, then when the glue is dry use a flush cut saw to get closer and sand the sawn edge.
>For corner inserts/keys do you double face tape them to a thicker piece and run then through the jointer or planer to get thin pieces of consistent thickness? I'd be a little worried that the compressibility of the tape might cause a problem. Slice on a table saw?

Yes, I've seen this done on tables. Tage Frid's book has a method to cut these and include a spline.
>Just one more question, I made a display case where all three pieces that meet in a corner were mitered to a point where they met and then glued. This showed no end grain and looks the same from any angle. Is this an accepted configuration?

Here's a example of waterborne finish on mahogany. The light part is African mahogany and the dark is Honduran. You can't tell the difference between this and n/c lacquor. This was sprayed on with no thinning.

Here is a link that might be useful: woodworking

The problem with the water based replacements for nitrocellulose lacquer is the slight grain raising they create.

The same issue occurs with water based aniline dies.

The normal method for water based die is to stain, then apply a very thing coat of 1 pound cut shellac, lightly sand, then apply the final finish layers.

It works with the water based lacquers just fine.

A thick coat of heavy bodied shellac can easily cause problems with top finishes.

Nitro lacquer solvents can react and 'curdle' the shellac, and water finishes can cause it to soften up and haze (the classic white blushing effect from water on shellac).

I have not had a problem with shellac blushing over shellac. I spray both and have been using SealCoat when I need to isolate silicone oil or want to bring out more luster in the wood. I probably use SealCoat on 80% of the stuff I refinish, maybe more. Maybe the issue is too much finish -- I normally try to hit 4 mil wet.

Some people "pre-raise" the grain by rinsing with water (best to use distilled), letting it dry, and sanding before commencing with finish. I generally find this a waste of time and do as Brickeyee says. This is known as "burying the grain." Shellac is a hard finish and stiffens up the fibers so they are easily smoothed.

There's a good article by Jeff Jewitt on sanding between coats of finish in the current FineWoodworking magazine. Worth a read. If any of you know Jeff or have been to his seminars, you know that he's a stickler for sanding. (I am currently on break from sanding a large project. Back to it in a minute.)

This chest is 36inches high and 24inches wide. This is a proto type to see if I could make the top. I wanted to make a treasure chest with a curved top like you would see in the cartoons. The top is bent lamination I did with a torch over a steel pipe. I read the article you spoke of by Jewett. I also just made a serpentine front solid mahogany queen ann chest with four drawers. I use Hydrocots Resisthane Plus. My finishing schedule is; first I sand with 220. Next I spray my first coat and let it dry for 1hour. Then sand lightly with 320 and blow off dust then wipe off with a rag. If you want to fill the grain you have to sand between coats anyway. I apply about 10 coats this way and let it rest for about a week. Then I rubb it out. I still use n/c lacquor and shellac if I am repairing something with that finish. I don't like the fumes of n/c lacquer and you can't tell the difference between the finishes. They look and feel the same. The learning curve for me was to not thin the product even though it seemed too thick. And I don't have to buy different thinners according to the temperature and humidity like n/c lacquer. I own any number of book about finishing, Jeff Jewitt's included. The one I use the most is by Teri Masaschi. Each one is slightly different. I tried them all and I do the technic that works best for me. If I need to stain the wood first, I use waterbased analine dye and different glazes and toners over that if I want subtle color variations. What works for me might not be what works for another person. I spent a lot of time praticing on large boards to develope the finishes I do. Since my work is not commercial, time is not an issue. I've been doing this for about 40 years.

"I have not had a problem with shellac blushing over shellac."

The only time I have had this happen was when trying to spray shellac in very high humidity.

Enough humidity was left in the warm compressed air to blush the shellac.

I added a better water vapor separator in the compressors output line (uses calcium chloride) and have not had a problem since.

Sorry, I meant to say "I have not had a problem with shellac blushing under water-borne."

> Always proofread to make sure you have not left any important out.

Sorry, I meant to say "I have not had a problem with shellac blushing under water-borne."

Understood.
But I can just see someone using shellac from a can (usually relatively heavy cut) under a water absed finish.

A thin cut (1-2 pound) has been used as a sealer for many years.

Some finishes really need somethig more water resistant, like vinyl sealer.

There are vinyl sealers available now, but for years they had to be made by dissolving vinyl pellets in solvent.

Toluene was a common solvent (among many) for this work.

Brick and Bob. Thanks for the info. I'll try the 1lb cut wash under the waterbase again. The work I do nowdays is occasionally kitchen cabinets for a guy that makes and installs cabinets. People don't like the smell of n/c lacquer. I'm retired, so I don't like to work 24/7.