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allexx_gw

Electric for Kitchen

allexx
10 years ago

Hello all,
First time here. I got a new panel while back, 100 to 200amp. Gonna start remodeling my kitchen and wanted some opinions on my wiring for the kitchen. Is 8 circuts too much? Should I put in standard breakers or AFCI?
Going to wire from under, house is pier and beam. Can I wire under joist or do I have to go through joist.
Thanks.

Comments (20)

  • bppark
    10 years ago

    Where are the doors and entryways? I think you will need to be able control the ceiling light from every entry point, which means three-way switches. I'm an amateur but I think a pro could redraw this and reduce the number of circuits and the amount of wiring needed. With a 3-wire cable to the fridge, for example, you could run a short length of 12-2 to the micro and share the neutral, eliminating one long run of 12-2.

  • jreagan_gw
    10 years ago

    You have 20A light circuits? What sort of wattage are you going to have?

    And you need GFCIs for the outlets

  • saltcedar
    10 years ago

    Appears the counter-top lights are sharing circuits with receptacle outlets.
    No can do.

  • allexx
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    So there are two entry's, one is the gap by phone and light switch and the other is next to microwave counter. The second light is the dining location. I've thought about a three-way switch but we're use to the one switch by the kitchen. Next to the range is an exterior door. The 3-wire sounds like a good idea for fridge and micro.
    The light circuit is 15A and I will use GFCIs, forgot to label those.
    Thanks for the help.

  • allexx
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    So on the ct lights, any recommendation. Can I share it with the light circuit?
    Thanks.

  • saltcedar
    10 years ago

    Lights would be fine, or any non dedicated circuit.

  • Bruce in Northern Virginia
    10 years ago

    You have plenty of circuits, so just figure out the wiring path.

    The most common circuits are:
    lights (15 amp) - you might need or want more circuits, but you need at least one dedicated circuit (not shared with outlets)
    two countertop GFCI outlet circtuits (20 amp each)
    Garbage disposal
    Microwave
    Refrigerator
    Dishwasher
    Its sometimes easiest to just wire these four circuits for 20 amp, but for many appliances 15 amp is sufficient
    Range vent (this is not always dedicated; may be included with microwave)
    Range 220 volt (if its electric or dual fuel) or range 120 volt if its gas

    I think you have all these circuits covered as long as you make sure the lights are separate from the counter outlets. At least one light should be wired with a 3 way so that it can be turned on when entering from either entrance. All the other lights can use a single switch.

    Bruce

  • saltcedar
    10 years ago

    I don't see how we can be that specific without knowing AHJ's local amendments:

    To wit:
    In addition, an individual 20
    ampere branch circuit shall be provided for the following: refrigerator, trash compactor,
    dishwasher, disposal, built-in microwave, vent hood, freezer, washer, dryer, or other
    fixed appliances. The individual branch circuits shall be provided with single receptacles
    in accordance with Section 210.21(B)(1) (Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch
    Circuit).
    Exception No. 1: Outdoor receptacles.
    Exception No. 2: In addition to the receptacles required by Section 210.52
    (Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets), a switched receptacle
    supplied from a general purpose branch circuit as defined in
    Section 210.70(A) (Dwelling Units), Exception No. 1 is
    permitted.
    Exception No. 3: A receptacle served by a circuit supplying only motor loads.
    Exception No. 4: A receptacle installed to provide power for an electrical system
    or clock timer for a gas range, gas oven, or counter-mounted
    cooking unit.
    Exception No. 5: A receptacle installed solely for the electrical supply to and
    support of an electrical clock in a kitchen, pantry, breakfast
    room, dining room, or similar area.
    Exception No. 6: Individual branch circuits shall not be required on under-counter
    refrigerator or microwave outlets located in a guestroom of a
    hotel.

    This post was edited by saltcedar on Thu, Oct 3, 13 at 11:31

  • Ron Natalie
    10 years ago

    With the exception of the refrigerator, there's no provision for using smaller amperage than 20A in the code even if it only serves a single appliance.

  • allexx
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thinking again on the 3-wire, I'll use it on the fridge-micro and GDisposal-DW. Can I put in juntion boxes to run the shorty 12-2 cables?

  • Bruce in Northern Virginia
    10 years ago

    You must have accessible junction boxes if you want to use a multi-wire branch circuit and break out the 12-3 for two appliances. The actual wiring is simple, but it might be hard to find a accessible/convenient location for the junction boxes.

    Reference saltcedar's post - based on the original information there is no washer, dryer, freezer, or trash compactor, so 7 kitchen circuits plus one for lights should be enough unless the diagram is not complete. He already planned to use all 20 amp circuits except for the lights, so that should not be a problem.

    Bruce

  • bppark
    10 years ago

    Junction boxes for a multi-wire circuit serving the fridge and micro should not be a problem. Both appliances will be plugged into receptacles, which will obviously be mounted in accessible boxes. One of them will simply serve as the J for splitting the two hot lines. A deep single-gang box would easily accommodate a 12/3, a 12/2 and the receptacle. For the disposer and dishwasher, it's a little trickier because those are normally hard-wired, but it is certainly possible to put an "accessible" box under the sink, though it's usually not a happy place.

  • Bruce T
    10 years ago

    A little off topic, but you might want to consider a neat option for your fridge that I did with my kitchen remodel.

    It appears you want a counter depth fridge located between the pantry and microwave. If that wall is an interior wall, think about removing the drywall and studs in that area and framing out that area to the size of your fridge. Finish the "cut out" area with drywall and such and install a recessed fridge receptacle.

    This will allow you to put a full size fridge (depth wise) that will be flush with your counter versus the much more expensive "counter depth" fridges.

  • allexx
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Putting the jbox under the house in the joist would make it accessible, right? Then feed them up to their electrical boxes. The DW is new to the kitchen and it has a plug for it. I haven't bought the disposal yet, so not sure it it's gonna need to be hard wired. But if the sink location is not happy place, where would it go?
    And the fridge is a full size with an upper cabinet. Demo time is coming up.
    Thanks you all. Keep letting me know your opinions/expertise. Should I post an updated drawing?

  • bppark
    10 years ago

    Allex, why do you need a junction box at all? To save materials and avoid unnecessary splices, simply run 12/3 directly from the panel to the outlet box that serves the refrigerator. Use the black and white wires to power the refrigerator outlet. Continue the run to the outlet box serving the microwave, using 12/2, fed by the red wire. Connect all the neutrals at the refrigerator box and mark the panel so that you remember the two breakers share a neutral. (All this assumes you get the black and red on adjacent breakers that are on opposite legs.) My drawing is crude, but I think it shows what I mean.

  • allexx
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well the reason I was gonna use the jbox was not to crowd the ebox wires from fridge to micro. I know it'll save on materials if I go straight like your drawing but if it's not common practice to use jbox, I'll drop it.
    Thanks for the help.

  • bppark
    10 years ago

    I don't think "common practice" is the issue. There may be valid reasons to crawl under your house, install a box, pull three cables into it, splice ten conductors, and staple all three runs, but I don't think avoiding box fill is one of them. There are boxes that will easily accommodate a junction at the fridge.

  • allexx
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Sorry for using phrase 'common practice'. What I meant was if it's not up to code. Also do you recommend not 12/3 the GD/DW. Run those individual?

  • bppark
    10 years ago

    As I said, I'm not a professional, but unless there are local code issues, I think using multiwire circuits for those two appliances would be fine, assuming you do everything to code, including finding a convenient and accessible place for a J box.

  • allexx
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thank's, all of you, for the help.