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mtvhike

Code changes

mtvhike
9 years ago

In outlining the electrical layout for our new home, I need to know what updates there are in the electrical code I need to be aware. I know that there must be one outlet box per wall, every six feet, and on each side of any doorway. Also, I just learned by reading this board, that a dimmer cannot be used on an outlet (for dimming a floor lamp, for example). Also, what are the requirements for the location of outlets and switches above the floor, and away from doors and windows?
I understand that GFCI outlets must be used in all potentially wet areas, such as kitchens, baths, basements, and laundry rooms. Each GFCI outlet can be used to protect others on the same circuit. In a kitchen, I understand that separate circuits must be used for the refrigerator and microwave (and stove, if there is an electric one).
What is this newer requirement regarding Arc Fault Protection outlets?
In my current home, I rewired it using 12 ga wire for all outlets (with 20 amp receptacles and 20 amp breakers) and 14 ga wire for all installed lights, with 15 amp breakers. Is this still a good idea?
Of course, my electrician will make everything up to code, but I don't want to request anything incorrect. Are there any things I have left out? Thankis.

Comments (60)

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    What the "latest" code is determined by your local jurisdiction. There are 15 states roughly that are on the 2014 NEC, 25 on the 2011 NEC, about 6 still on the 2008, and 5 that are a hodgepodge of local rules (as of last August).

    I'll take back the conduit exception, that only covers the wriing up to the first outlet. After that you still need AFCI.

    Unfinshed basement receptacles have required GFCI for a long time (at least the past 12 years). Back in the early GFCI days you are right, you didn't need it but they've progressively increased the requirement over time.

    No, you ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT use an AFCI in lieu of a GFCI. You can think of those as independent requirements. The comment about "adding" was that the italicized list of rooms in my former post came from the 2011 NEC. The 2014 has the same list but now also includes kitchens and laundries in the list.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    My state is NY, and I assume that the 2014 NEC will work in all states, although overkill on 35 of them.

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    Yep, you might find it handy to order the 2014 Handbook. It's pricey but you probably will find it interesting reading and reference since you do seem to be quite advanced in your understanding of things.

    The library may have a copy as well in the reference section.

  • jreagan_gw
    9 years ago

    Many states simply adopt the NEC (and other building codes) into law. Laws are not copyrightable. You can find them online for free downloading. I tried to include a link to such a site (perfectly legal) but GardedWeb rejected the URL (perhaps they filter for it?). You can look up the NEC on Wikipedia for more details and links to download.

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    The NFPA does make public access to the NEC (albeit with a clunky java-based reader interface) available on their site.

    The HANDBOOK is not the law anywhere. The NEC itself is contained within the HANDBOOK but all the pictures and explanatory text added are and will remain the property of the NFPA.

    Amusingly, the State of NC makes all the codes available for residents available for a very nominal fee (I got the books and the CDROM copies of the Building, Plumbing, and Heating codes for I think under $100 total). Didn't check to see if they had the NEC because I already have it (and the one page of additional information they put out as their local addition).

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I went to my local library, but they had only the 2005 code. I asked them to check the county library system, and they could get the 2012 NEC Safety code (is that the same?). The county also had a non-circulating copy of the 2014 code, which I might look for, but I haven't been there yet.

    While at work today, an electrician who was on a major project in my office building stopped by and I was chatting with him. He said that I should contact my town building inspector and ask him what code version applies to my town. He is only in his office on Wednesday mornings, so I will have to wait until next week to ask him. Meanwhile, I want to continue with my planning. Since I am having a licensed professional electrician do the actual work, I'm sure he will catch any code violations in my plans, but I would rather not have any.
    I'm starting my plan with what is perhaps the most complicated part of the house: the NE corner which contains the Master Bathroom, a walk-in closet, a laundry with electric dryer, a powder room, and a pantry. In my initial outline, I have one lighting circuit for eight separate lighting fixtures (seven wall switches or dimmers). Regarding outlets, how many can/must I have? At first, I thought I had to have one per wall and, for a wall with a door, two. For these rooms, that seems like an awfully large number. I was thinking about two in the powder room and the master bathroom (one near the sink for electric razor or toothbrush), and one utility one in each of the other rooms. In addition, the laundery would have one for the washer and one 30 amp 220 volt one for the dryer. So, to summarize: one lighting circuit for 8 fixtures (15A AFCI), one utility circuit for 7 duplex outlets (20A AFCI), one 20A for the washer, and one 30A 220v for the dryer. Do you see any problem with this? Since AFCI doesn't replace GFCI, should I use GFCI duplex outlets near the sinks, or should they be separate from the AFCI circuits?

    Thanks in advance for any comments.

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    I suspect they're talking about the 2012 LIFE SAFETY CODE which is an entirely different beast (worth reading, but it's not going to help you with your wiring issues).

    It depends on the room (and whether this is a residence or not). Generally, any space on a wall that's longer than 2' (between doors, etc...) has to have receptacle spaced such that no point on the wall is more than 6' from receptacle (including wrapping around corners).

    You can have more than is required if you want.

    The laundry area needs a 120V 20 AMP dedicated circuit for a receptacle regardless of the additional one for the dryer. They want you to have a place to plug in your iron.

    Bathroom receptacles need their own 20A circuit (either shared with other bathroom receptacles, or serving just one bathroom but can have other bathroom outlets).

    Currently, the only solution to places like the laundry and kitchens that required both AFCI and GFCI is to put AFCI in the panel and GFCI in the first receptacle.

  • joefixit2
    9 years ago

    Actually Siemans just released their dual function circuit breakers and Square D announced theirs in Feb. I expect everyone will have them very soon.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Siemans Dual Function AFCI-GFCI circuit breakers

    This post was edited by joefixit2 on Fri, Oct 31, 14 at 22:31

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    Cool... It was just a matter of time. Actually, I was sitting yesterday next to an Electrical Engineer from Siemens at a conference and made some comment about ITE Pushmatic panels and we had quite a conversation. Should have asked him, he was actually in the moulded case circuit breaker area.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago

    Well, thank goodness. If I decide to clean my Oster blender by immersing it in a sink full of soapy water, while it's plugged in to an extension cord connected to the other end of the kitchen...I will now be protected from electrocution.

    Seriously, I hate to be a trouble maker. But who is actually privy to the inner workings of the body that writes the NEC? Are these rules based on actual calamities that take place with any frequency, or does someone sit there all day and think of every possible doomsday scenario that could occur at anytime, anywhere? People could carry a bucket of water anywhere in their house. Why not at this point just say all outlets need to be GFCI? One can surely assume that is coming soon, given the overall trajectory. The highways would be virtually fatality free if we required people to drove no faster than 35 mph, and wear helmuts and fireproof bodysuits while in the vehicle. That doesn't mean that's actually sensible public policy.

    I hope the new arc fault circuit breakers are better than the old ones. The one I installed a few years ago has proven to be a nuisance, tripping about 1/3 of the time I start my expensive Dyson vacuum cleaner. Fortunately, I don't clean very often.

  • joefixit2
    9 years ago

    Code making panels review things like accident and death records presented by the proposing party and vote on it. From what I have been told, the GFCI proposal to eliminate the exceptions was shot down for the 2005 code but for 2008 enough death records were produced to persuade the CMP to put it through. Supposedly no proposal is made code without supporting evidence, although I am convinced a lot of it is strong lobbying by manufacturers with deep pockets.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I spoke to my contractor last night and asked him about our jurisdiction requiring NEC 2014 code, and the first thing he asked is "what's that?" (in his defense, he's not our electrician, and perhaps the phone connection was poor). When I explained and asked specifically about the AFCI requirement, he said "that applies in some of our towns around here, but not yours". He also said that AFCI breakers are very expensive and a pain in the you know what! I checked at HD and they are ~$40 each and if my plan uses 25 circuits, then that's $1000. I am willing to pay this extra amount if it makes my house safer and more "modern", but I have heard comments that they cause problems and I shouldn't use them except where required.

    Another question regarding the required 20 Amp GFCI outlets in the kitchen. Do all the outlets have to be 20 Amp, or just some? There is an area near the end of our countertop where I think I would like to have a "cell phone charging station", which would be best if I could have the outlets with build-in USB connections (I have one which is one regular outlet and two USB), but I don't think that's 20 Amp and it's definitely not GFCI. I see that Leviton has some quad USB outlets which, of course, are not 20 Amp, but maybe they are OK.

  • petey_racer
    9 years ago

    I am trying to wrap my head around just WHY you need to know all this, yet you are going to have an electrician do the work.

    Also, NYS uses the 2010 NYS Resi Code, which is verbatim based on the 2008 NEC.

    AFCI breakers ARE required for most rooms in a home in new construction in NYS. Personally there is no way I'd use them in areas where they are not required. In new construction there is simply no reason to.
    The "contractor" you talked to should seriously refrain from giving electrical advice. He really has no clue what he is talking about.

    What part of NYS are you in? If in the LI/NYC metro area things can be very different.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Petey, thanks for your response. I currently live on LI but our new construction is in the Adirondacks. The reason why I am so involved is that there are several aspects of the wiring which I don't think the electrician will do without a struggle. I am a "tinkerer" and I like to have the ability to change things. I would like to put all the wiring in emt, and have the ability to do so, but I my contractor wants his electrician to do most everything. He is not giving any electrical advice, but just passing on what his sub has used in the past. In my conversation with him last night, he said that the electrician would "just install the outlets in the usual locations", but I want to select those locations. In addition, I want more outlets than code requires. One example is that I want a ceiling fan with lights hanging in the center of the great room. As currently planned, that will need two circuits. But what happens if in a few years, another product becomes available which requires 3 circuits? If I use emt, then I can change it.

    I appreciate your advice about not using AFCI breakers except where they are required. One problem is that every town "up there" has its own rules, and I'm not sure that the builders are totally aware of which town has which rules. That's one reason why I lean toward "overbuilding".

    One reason I am getting so involved is that I have to come up with electrical design preferences which involve anything on the ceiling, because that has to be installed after the timbers go up on or about Dec 10 and before the roof goes on Jan 10. And I'm here on LI and have limited time to talk with the electrician. I have an appt. with him on Dec 12, so maybe everything can be cleared up then. He's going to put in the breaker box this week or early next week and I want to make sure it's what I want.

  • btharmy
    9 years ago

    He is installing the panel next week and he doesn't even know what you want him to install??? He will tell you what he is going to install and if you don't like it, you will most likely have to pay him to change it. This stuff should have been addressed before you ever broke ground.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    All he's installing is the breaker box and I think a simple 200A box with 40 spaces for breakers would be adequate. The power is already run and they want to have power for doing the framing.

  • bus_driver
    9 years ago

    The latest posts explain your concerns just a bit. As you may already know, you are delegating this job to him. One of the drawbacks of delegating is that the results will reflect the abilities, judgments, and preferences of the delegatee. "If you want something done to your exact specifications, you must do it yourself."
    I sense that you are a frustrated perfectionist, as all perfectionists are, because there are no perfect people.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I finally got the scoop from the electrical inspector in my new location. When I asked what NEC code level they require, he didn't really answer, but he did say that AFCI breakers were required almost everywhere. He then said that they are not required for the smoke/CO2 circuit, the microwave circuit, the refrigerator, or "others like that". What would "others like that" include? AFCI breakers are required in bedrooms, living and dining rooms, family rooms, etc. etc. Bummer!

    Also, how many outlets are allowed on one circuit? If two duplex receptacles are put in one 4" box, does that count as one or two? I'm planning on all 20 circuits.

    (I mistakenly posted this on the wrong thread!)

  • btharmy
    9 years ago

    Let your electrician worry about where AFCI circuits are required. That is not your concern. If you don't trust him then fire him and hire one you trust. He won't be any further behind than your current sparky since you are spoon feeding info to him as he goes anyway.

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    Actually, I see nothing wrong with checking up on the electrician. I had some bloody electrical engineers that did the wiring diagrams on behalf of my architect. After two pages of items that were in violation of the codes I decided that I better go look up the other building/trade codes just to be sure.

    Fortunately most of my subs are smarter than the darned architects and engineers.

  • joefixit2
    9 years ago

    AFCI protection IS required on smoke & CO circuits, and there is no limit on how many receptacle outlets may be installed on a residential branch circuit. You really need to get the Ray Mullins book on residential wiring, by now you could have read the entire book and you would know all of this and more.

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    Actually Joe, from another thread it appears that MTVMike is running surface mounted EMT for his wiring. In this case there is an exception to the AFCI.

  • joefixit2
    9 years ago

    OK didn't see that. That would mean he doesn't need AFCI protection anywhere if it's all piped wouldn't it?

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    No that's not true. The code permits fire alarm stuff to not have AFCI if it is in conduit. The code allows you to run branch circuits in conduit and avoid the AFCI up to the first outlet. Since I've not seen a whole lot of AFCIs out there that are other than circuit breaker style, it's probably not very easy to end up using that exception.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Ronnatalie
    Are you saying that if I run a conduit from the load center to a single outlet box (duplex or quadplex), I don't have to have an AFCI breaker, but if I continue that run to another outlet, even in conduit, then the whole branch must be AFCI protected?
    At HD and Lowes, the AFCI breakers are about $35 each. I went to my local electrical supply house an hour ago, and they carry the Siemans combination AFCI/GFCI you mentioned earlier, also about $35 each.

    I'm not running surface piped wire, except in the basement and loft where, as I understand it, it is required in occupied, "unfinished" space.

    Joe, I'm surprised that there is no limit on the number of residential outlets on a branch circuit. Of course, there is a practical load limit, but if most of my outlets are for convenience and most are not used simultaneously, then I could put, for example, 20 outlets in a single room and on a single 20 A circuit, spaced so that I have greater flexibility in furniture placement. Right?

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    Well you have to have the circuit AFCI protected from the first outlet on. Now this would be interesting if you could buy an AFCI-receptacle like you can buy a GFCI-receptalce, but I don't know of any..

    You can have as many receptacles as you want on a circuit over the minimum. The code requires a few special circuits (kitchens, laundries, bathrooms, ...).

  • petey_racer
    9 years ago

    Yes, AFCI ARE required for smokes. For an inspector to say otherwise is EXTREMELY irresponsible and shows he doesn't know what he's talking about. Many building inspectors don't.

    PLEASE don't tell me you are discussing these things with the BI. He IS NOT the AHJ for electrical. NYS uses independent third party electrical inspectors, and most areas up do NOT have their own special rules. NYS uses the 2010 NYS Resi Code, which is based verbatim on the 2008 NEC, for one and two family dwellings, and few areas have any significant amendments.

    I also agree, if you do not, or cannot, trust your builder's electrician fire him and hire your own. I must say, you REALLY do need to have clear and regular communication with your contractors. I am in a very "second home" intensive area and I deal with a LOT of part timers (LI, NYC, Jersey) and it is a royal pain in the ass when folks are not available to meet or if they do not communicate properly. Tell your guys how you feel and what you want. If they cannot comply, or cannot give you a satisfactory alternative, find someone who can.
    Regularly people ask me to work weekends because that is the only time they are up. More than once folks have told me they'll have to find someone else when I tell them I don't work weekends, and I am fine with that. Most times they hand me a key or code and say let me know when you are done.

  • joefixit2
    9 years ago

    Ron you really need to get out more. Very handy for circuit extensions where the home run shares a neutral.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Leviton AFCI receptacle

    This post was edited by joefixit2 on Thu, Dec 4, 14 at 20:08

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Petey, It's not that I don't trust my general contractor, it's just that I haven't had time to meet with the electrical sub he has used for previous projects. The sub did a fine job running the 4/0 line from the pole to the meter and from the meter to the house, but putting a bundle of wire in a ditch isn't rocket science. I was surprised that he used aluminum wire (I would have preferred copper, and would have paid for it), but I guess aluminum feed wire is standard. It's what the power company used to feed the pole (which I also had installed). I need to impress on him that I don't want a run-of-the mill wiring job, and I have asked my GC to make sure that any major decisions, especially those involving style, are cleared with me. For example, I told him that I don't want any plastic boxes used. His response was "why, using metal boxes will cost more". I said "how much, I just don't like plastic boxes". I am meeting with them both next week, but by then he will have already installed the load center. I just hope he honored my request for a 40-breaker panel, but I suspect he already had the box before I made that request.

  • petey_racer
    9 years ago

    I don't mean this in a mean spirited way, but wow, you must be a joy to work for. You sound like a typical micro-manager.
    IMO you are going to have a hard time doing this job via remote control, especially 5 hours away. It sounds like you need to be around full time to get precisely what you want. I am getting the impression that you want to dictate every little detail.

    No plastic boxes?? Seriously?? What is your logic behind this one?
    And yes, AL for service cable is absolutely standard. You cannot even get copper SEU (service entrance) cable around here, and I doubt we could even order it in less than full spool lengths. On LI copper was all we used. It's a locational thing.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I guess I just don't know where the line is between doing a job on the cheap and doing it to a high standard. I grew up learning the electric trade in Chicago where codes were much stricter and I assumed that made them safer. Maybe they all remember the Chicago fire (although that wasn't an electrical fire). Sometimes codes are strict for good reasons and sometimes its just the desire for some tradesmen to to the job as quickly as possible. When is the last time you tried to find someone who could do a wet plaster wall? 10 years ago I tried, succeeded, and was happy with the result, but the search was difficult, here on Long Island. I can't do plastering myself, so I use drywall (and don't like the result). Electrical wiring is something I can do, even if it takes me a longer time. I just want to make sure I do it to code and, since I can't do the entire job myself, I would like to persuade the electrician to lean toward my desires. I did try to use some plastic boxes, for running AV cables, and found them problematical, although "quick and dirty" and they usually worked.

    I think you have all been trying to give me the best advice and I really appreciate it. Thanks. And, Petey, I don't take your advice as being mean spirited.

  • btharmy
    9 years ago

    I can't believe you just said "I grew up learning the electric trade in Chicago". You never learned the electrical trade. You might have known some electricians. Maybe even helped a couple of them out from time to time. The whole "don't use plastic boxes" thing? That's crazy. From all of your posts it is obvious you just want to try to be involved in too many aspects of the construction of your house instead of hiring qualified professionals. All of the things you keep bringing up that you want make sure he does or doesn't do should have been addressed at the outset, in writing. Anything you choose to change after that is an extra cost paid by you and most likely more of a delay to the trades on the job. Just let them build the friggin' house already! It is just silly.

  • petey_racer
    9 years ago

    The thing is, you really cannot dictate every little aspect of someone's trade. Not unless you will be there day in and day out observing and overseeing. In which case why have a GC then?
    You especially cannot come into an area you are not familiar with and try this. Saying you didn't want plastic boxes and were upset he used AL service cable are odd to these guys. WHY would they use anything else? It's SOP for them, and why would it not be. There is NOTHING "deficient" about either thing, nor the probably dozen other things they will do that you might have an issue with.
    Like I said, it is IMPOSSIBLE to micro-manage a project like this from 200 miles away or via e-mail/phone.

    Have the project drawn up by someone you can relate to, hire guys you trust, give as much detail about your preferences as possible, and let them all do their job.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    As Petey and Btharmy have said, I cannot micromanage this job from afar. I'm just trying to figure out what a can reasonably request when I meet with the GC and electrician next week.

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    I'm sorry but again I'm coming down on MTVhike's side on this Petey, sorry. Having been on both sides of the situation, this isn't "micromanaging" it's making sure that he gets the house that he wants that is safe and practical.

    I've got a rather extensive house (complete with whole house generation) and a top notch GC and subs. Still it was unnerving building the house while 300 miles away. As I pointed out, I caught errors in the plans from the architect, I found things that the subs had missed and the subs/GC caught errors in the plans that both me and the architect missed. I hate to say it, that when they put the main disconnect and the ATS in I wasn't around and the SUB screwed that up and the INSPECTOR caught it.

    I can tell you as far as cost and practicality for correcting mistakes goes, it's a WHOLE LOT EAISER doing it now before a shovel goes into the ground, than it is down the road.

    Frankly, I've never had an issue with people checking up on my work and frankly any sub that has an issue with me checking up on theres, isn't going to be my sub very long. If they can't stand the scrutiny, they're not that good to begin with.

    Even the most recalictrant plumbing sub and I have had a nice discussion about my kitchen remodel while eating our lunches on the front stoop. (I know nearly as much about the plumbing codes as I do the electrical, and I can sweat pipes with the best of them, but I hate it so I usually have no problem with contractors on that).

  • btharmy
    9 years ago

    It is one thing to know what needs to be done and checking up on the trades to verify they are doing it. It is an entirely different thing to have no idea what should or shouldn't be done and go on DIY chat rooms asking what should and shouldn't be done and then try to understand it and then relay it to the gc and subs. The two situations don't share any similarities what so ever. This guy doesn't have a clue. He should have hired a better GC so he could just relax.

  • bus_driver
    9 years ago

    At this point in my life, the only way I work with a customer is for them to tell me the end result they desire, in as much detail as they desire. Then I accomplish that with methods chosen by me and with code compliance.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Back to the question of Ground- and Arc-Fault protection. I can get both AFCI and GFCI duplex receptacles, and as Joefixit pointed out, breakers with both types of protection (combined) are available from Siemens and SquareD. Would you put the protection in the breaker box, or in the receptacle? Receptacles are cheaper and easier to reset, but what are the advantages of the breaker type? Which would you use?

  • Ron Natalie
    9 years ago

    Well, after chasing all over trying to find the GFCI that controlled the particular outside receptacle I was concerned with, it would have been a whole lot easier to locate if it had been in the panel.

  • petey_racer
    9 years ago

    AFCI receptacle can only be used (if needed to meet code) if certain strict requirements are met. Such as piping to the first box or using MC cable. So if AFCI protection is required IMO a breaker is the only way to go.

    I am NOT a fan of GFI breakers for areas with general receptacles. I like the protection local to the point of use. About the only time I use GFI breakers is pool, spas, tubs, etc.

  • btharmy
    9 years ago

    AFCI breakers, GFCI receptacles, but again, your contractor should already know this. You should only have to worry about design issues, not code compliance and the like. Get out of the way and Let them work. If you want an extra receptacle or can light here or there then mention it to them. Of course, it will be an extra expense over and above the original contract price.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Update - after 2-1/2 months, my house project is proceeding well. Most of the wiring is done by my contractor's sub. I do have a few issues:

    1. Last fall, we discussed the type and capacity of load center I would need, and before I could do anything, he installed a 200 Amp 40-breaker one. It was too late to change anything, so I let it go. Two days ago, he said that I need more capacity, and it would require a new meter, new underground service, and a new load center. He offered to buy the 200 Amp one from me with credit for the required 400 Amp one. Why do I need 400 Amps? Well, I am using electric heat and the boiler installed is 20 kW, which is 83 Amps. He said that the load should not exceed 80% of the breaker capacity, giving 104 Amps. The closest breaker available is 120 Amps. In addition, I have a 30 Amp domestic hot water heater, and plan to install a range with an electric oven, which requires 50 Amps. That totals 200! That's why he needs to run a new line. I could us a propane gas oven (we have no natural gas) and we don't plan to have any AC. I think the boiler was way oversized. The heat loss calculation gave 60,000 BTU/hr, which converts to 17.6 kW, and I think that calculation was over generous. So, I could ask that the boiler be replaced with an 18 kW one, which might help. I think that would be much cheaper than replacing the panel and feed wiring; what do you think? The house has been being heated with a 5 kW space heater in the basement during construction since January; this has included many days with sub-zero temperature. Even with windows and doors not yet installed and roof insulation incomplete, the inside temperature was held at 50 degrees.

    2. He also told that current code requires "tamperproof" receptacles, which are very inconvenient to use (and more expensive too). I have about 40 boxes already wired, but the receptacles are not yet in. What do you think about that?


  • geoffrey_b
    8 years ago

    Wow - you're going to have one hell of an electric bill!

    I'm just an engineer - but many cities / state require you to have tamper proof receptacles for outlets that are less than 48" ?? from the ground.

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Greg_2015: Thanks for bringing me back to reality. I do think I will never use all that current at any one time, so I hope you're right (and my electrician agrees with you) and will accept what already exists.

  • Ron Natalie
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    TR receptacles appeared in the 2011 code. If your local jurisdiction is on the 2011 or 2014 version of the NEC, All non-locking 15 and 20A 120V receptacles must be TR ones. There's no EXCEPTION for height above the ground or anything else.

    The current generation indeed suck badly. Hopefully this will get better as time goes on.

  • Fred S
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The 2008 NEC simply said;

    406.11 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles in Dwelling Units. In all areas specified in 210.52, all 125-volt, 15-and 20-ampere receptacles shall be listed tamper-resistant receptacles.

    The 2011 NEC changed the code numbers to 406.12 (dwelling), 406.13 (guest rooms), & 406.14 (child care) and added exceptions for dwelling units;

    Ex.: Receptacles in the following locations aren’t required to be tamper-resistant:

    (1) Receptacles located more than 5½ ft above the floor.

    (2) Receptacles that are part of a luminaire or appliance.

    (3) A receptacle located within dedicated space for an appliance that in normal use isn’t easily moved from one place to another.

    (4) Nongrounding receptacles used for replacements as permitted in 406.4(D)(2)(a).

    The 2014 NEC lumped 406.12, .13, .14 all together as just 406.12 The exceptions now apply to all the areas.

    Consider getting a very well insulated off peak or programmable water heater. (or a simple timer might be better)

  • mtvhike
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I decided that my concern with tamperproof receptacles is unfounded. I went to Home Depot and looked at some, and they really aren't inconvenient to use. I thought they had these plastic child-proof covers which had to be moved in order to plug anything in, but in fact the covers are internal and there is no problem plugging a standard plug. In fact, I'm not sure what's "tamperproof" about them.

    In the undersized service I mentioned above, the electrical contractor admitted his mistake and will make the change at no cost to me (except, I assume, the additional cost for the larger wire, etc. which would have occurred if that is what had been installed originally).

  • greg_2015
    8 years ago

    I'm not sure what's "tamperproof" about them.

    I think it's basically that the two prongs have to be inserted together at the same time. If a kid tried to poke a paperclip into one slot, then the cover wouldn't move.

    Theoretically, it seems great. When you are legitimately plugging something in then of course both prongs are going in at the same time. But in reality, it seems like some are too sensitive or something, and if you don't approach it dead-on then the cover doesn't move.

    mtvhike thanked greg_2015
  • Ron Natalie
    8 years ago

    I have a newly constructed house full of "builders grade" TR recepatcles. WIth a grounded plug there's rarely a problem as the ground pin pushes things open quite easily. Putting two prong stuff in however can be a bit challenging. Again, I suspect this will get better over time (or with something more than the cheapest versions).


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