Ok the pigtail also has a bare ground wire in the pigtail. It seems to me that when the circuit is completed at the least the bare wire would be hot.

The house is a 1930's that has had a lot of work done over the years. most of the wiring is actuall the cloth covered stuff. Ill try to take a pic later but does this seem right? maybe the cause of the flickering and fried smaller socket wires?

As bad as this is, flickering (of an incandescent bulb) is usually caused by a loose connection. That also can cause heat build-up, which could be the cause of the discolored wires.

To fix this, I would recommend:

1. Connecting all of the ground wires together, and connecting the ground to the proper place on the new fixture.

2. Replace the broken wire nut, and make sure that all of the connections are tight.

3. Remove that tape and whatever from the switch wire.

4. Inspect the remaining wires to make sure that the insulation is acceptable. If the insulation is cracked or brittle to the point of failure, you'll need to replace the wires.

5. Mark the last inch or two of the wire coming from the switch with a black magic marker to show that it's hot.

If any of this is confusing, it might be time to call in a pro.

how did it keep from throwing a breaker when the switch was turned on? were they just lucky the bare wire didnt ground on anything.

Maybe whoever did just did it in the one place and got confused about what to do with the bare wires. there are 2 other romex type wires in the box and they are connected together. I understand what you are saying and it makes sense if everything else is normal.

I might have an electrician come out and check the whole system out. the guy that lived here before told me he was a contractor. yikes

The ground attached to the white bundle wouldn't affect the circuit breaker. The problem is that under normal usage, the ground wire shouldn't carry any current. With this set up, assuming the ground wire is connected to the circuit breaker panel, the ground wire would carry some of the current.

The bare wire IS the ground, so it touching some other part of the electrical system that is also grounded wouldn't be a problem. What would be a problem is when a person touches that bare wire and provides a better path to ground than the wire. Then the current is flowing through a person, and that's not good.

All you have to do is mark the wire.

HOW it is marked (beyond 'permanent') is not in the NEC.

That leaves the 2 original neutral wires. One neutral has voltage according to my tester. The other 2 ground wires are twisted together. does that make sense?

guess I should take the ground wire attached to the neutral and hook it with the other ground wires?

it seems like they took the ground wire from the romex to the switch and purposely connected it to the neutrals when the other 2 ground wires were twisted together right by it. is there any method to that madness?

I don't know why the person connected the ground to the neutrals. I suspect that there isn't a proper ground back to the panel, and the installer wanted to pretend that this would take care of the problem. Regardless, it's a code and safety violation.

To fix this might require some replacement wiring. You probably want to check out all of the connections in your house.

If these splices are not in junction boxes it is a real hazard.

You also need to be careful about what tester you are using.

Non-contact testers (do not need to touch a conductor) and digital meters can give all sorts of 'phantom' readings, showing voltage when none is actually present.
The only clue may be that the meter shows an odd lower than normal voltage.

Of course, when you see something goofy in one place, it makes you wonder what else is hiding. Personally, I would open up a few more fixtures and see if the whole house was done that way or if it was an isolated error.

"is there any method to that madness? "

No. Both the neutral and ground are actually both path's back to ground. However, they are kept separate so that the neutral is used as part of the normal circuit operation and the ground is kept free as an alternative path for electricity to travel if anything goes wrong. If you combine the 2, you lose that important safety backup path.

Now comes the big problem...

The light doesn't light up. it has 3 separate sockets on it 3 white fixture wires together with the 2 neutrals from the ceiling box. 3 black fixture wires to the taped hot wire.

I think I see why they hooked the ground wire in there. Ill bet there is no neutral to the breaker box. Could they have been using the ground as a neutral?

The tester I have beeps at the fixture sockets with the switch on. Also I have another ceiling fixture with a ceiling fan and a wall socket that are dead now. The attic has been changed to living space above the fixtures.

man I see a big problem. I have a home warranty but Ill bet it doesn't cover incompetence.

BTW - it looks in the last picture like that ground mixed with the neutrals was coming from the switchloop and couldn't have been providing a path back to the breaker.

what do you think?

ps I actually have a decent MM its a fluke 113. I have just never used it on AC before just ohms on stereo speakers.

That is actually a very low impedance for a digital meter, most are well into the 10s of megaohms.

This sounds more and more like something that you want to get a pro to check out.

Could the prob be a bad/loose wire at the fuse box.

I dont think that anyone that would stick that ground wire where it was would worry about a junction box.

I just got it to check the drivers on speakers. I managed to repair quite few horns and tweets with it.

so the mm is ok to use on this?

The 113 has a very low impedance input (less than 3k ohms) to help eliminate reading phantom voltages that often occur with traditional digital meters. The problem however, is they created this in conjunction with what Fluke calls "V-Chek" and something I personally don't care for big time. If the voltage it under a certain level, I think 3 volts, it automatically goes into a Continuity Test Mode and does the "Beep" thing if it detects continuity.

So, if you are measuring the lamp sockets with the switch turned on and it beeps, it means you have continuity between what should be the two separate conductors - hot & neutral.

Sounds like the wires at the fixture are now somehow connected to either side of the switch. You really need to figure out where each and every wire in that box comes from and where it goes.

These problems need to be fixed.

If you remove the switch for that fixture, do you see that bare copper wire connected to another wire, probably a white wire? If it's the case, it is very dangerous and should be addressed immediately, probably by replacing the Romex between the switch and the fixture box with a new length of 14/3 or 12/3, using the black as the hot, the white as neutral and the red as the return to the fixture.

That's how you rewire.

I guess you cant pull romex thru whatever. thats a shame

Or you learn how to fish wires between access points to minimize damage.

You do not have to follow the route of the existing cables, and in many cases may actually take a longer path to minimize wall damage.

It does take more time tan simply hacking holes in walls and ceilings willy-nilly.

With careful planing (you may need to do more damage to a single stud bay wall to minimize damage elsewhere), planing, and 'tricks' wall damage can be minimized at greater cost for the electricians time.

Drywall is easily enough repaired to not usually be worth a large effort unless you have a texture that could be hard to duplicate.

Plaster walls are often well worth minimizing damage, since in some places even finding someone to do a repair is very difficult.