Return to the Electrical Wiring Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Pool Light?

Posted by dirtwoodj (My Page) on
Thu, Sep 14, 06 at 18:45

Our pool is being built and I had a question about the underwater light wiring...

They are installing pvc conduit from the underwater pvc light niche to the light switch..
There is the long black cord that comes attached to the light itself. It has black, white, and green conductors in it.. They will be wired to the switch and back the the main panel with a 15a GFI breaker... correct? Can 14-2 be used from the breaker to the switch?
They are also gonna pull an insulated green wire in the conduit as well... I assume this is for the bond... Where should this be terminated? The switch box itself? or does it go all the way back to the panel as well? or does it also need to be connected to the pools bonding grid? Also, can #12 insulated be used for this or is #8 minimum like the rest of the bond grid?
There is also a bare #8 coming off the outside of the light niche that is part of the bonding grid...
I just wanna make sure its all done correctly!!!
Hope this made sense..
Thanks!


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Pool Light?

There MUST be a "deck box" as it is called, between the light niche and the switch box. NEC 680.23(B)(2) explains this.

NO, you CANNOT use 14/2 for ANY wiring for a pool light. You MUST use conduit all the way back to the source panel. MC cable is also acceptable inside the structure. The ground MUST be #12 so any cable assembly (MC) would need to be 12/2g. NEC 680.23(F)

The #8 in the conduit IS the bond for the PVC conduit between the forming shell and the deck box. It is in addition to any ground wires for the circuit itself.
It gets terminated inside the forming shell and in the deck box. Inside the forming shell it MUST be encapsulated in a specific "potting compound" approved for this application.
You DO NOT run the internal #8 to ANY devices, panels or to the grid.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Thanks petey... I will make sure they install conduit and #12 from the panel...
Can you define "deck box"?
I think they are planning to mount a weatherproof switch box on the side of the house and it will be connected to the underwater niche with a run of conduit. Is this ok? Should the "deck box" go between the switch and the niche? The house is about 10 feet from the pool.
I am a little confused about why the internal #8 is needed at all... It seems to only bond the weatherproof switch box to the pvc underwate niche. What does this accomplish?
Just want to understand everything that is going on!
Thanks!


 o
RE: Pool Light :)?

OK i see what you mean about the "deck box".
The internal #8 is to bond the deck box and the switchbox to the bonding grid.. correct?
Are there special "deck boxes" or will any weatherproof box and cover do the trick?
I should have read before i posted :)
Anything else i should watch out for?
Thanks again!


 o
Deck box

This is part of the Handbook commentary on the internal #8:

"Where rigid nonmetallic conduit or liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit is used between a forming shell for a wet-niche fixture and a junction box or other enclosure, an 8 AWG insulated copper bonding jumper is required to be installed in the conduit to provide electrical continuity between the forming shell and the junction box or other enclosure."

Sorry, I made a mistake above. The section related to the deck box is not 680.23(B)(2), that is the section on the #8 bond.

Here is the section related to conduit extending directly from a forming shell:


"680.24 Junction Boxes and Enclosures for Transformers or Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters
(A) Junction Boxes A junction box connected to a conduit that extends directly to a forming shell or mounting bracket of a no-niche luminaire (fixture) shall meet the requirements of this section.
(1) Construction The junction box shall be listed as a swimming pool junction box and shall comply with the following conditions:
(1) Be equipped with threaded entries or hubs or a nonmetallic hub
(2) Be comprised of copper, brass, suitable plastic, or other approved corrosion-resistant material
(3) Be provided with electrical continuity between every connected metal conduit and the grounding terminals by means of copper, brass, or other approved corrosion-resistant metal that is integral with the box


DO NOT let them pipe directly from the forming shell to the switch box. HUGE violation.


 o
NO, not to the grid

"The internal #8 is to bond the deck box and the switchbox to the bonding grid.. correct? "

No, this is not the case. See above.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Here is a link that might be useful: CodeCheck pools


 o
Deck box link

Here is a link that might be useful: Deck Box at Grainger


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Wow petey, thanks! Great reply!

Let me get this right... The internal insulated #8 should extend from inside the wet niche to the deck box and should be terminated to the deck box itself?
Does the internal #8 also need to extend from the deck box to the switch box?
Does homedepot or lowes sell an appropriate deck box?

Thanks again! You seriously rule!


 o
RE: Pool Light?

1) Yes
2) No
3) I don't think so. You will need an electrical supply house, pool supply store or one of the several online suppliers I found.
Google "4RG47". Or see the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: GOOGLE of 4RG47


 o
RE: Pool Light?

THANK YOU!
I am sure i have have more questions when the get a little further along!
THANK YOU!!


 o
RE: Pool Light?

I have a different question regarding the underwater pool light. I know the niche that holds the light is supposed to be filled with water to keep the light cooled, but what about the opening in the back of the niche where the wiring goes out to the conduit? Is water supposed to go out to the line too, or is there supposed to be a seal at the back of the niche? I accidentally broke the conduit while pulling up a tree and water came leaking out until the water line in spa got below the niche rear opening.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Yes, that conduit is intended to fill with water. This is anohter reason for a deck box and the specific way it is to be installed.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

the conduit connects to the top of my wet niche and has an elbow that bends up above the waterline, but still below the deck and then extends to the deck box that is well above (4inches) the water line...
just to add to what petey said...


 o
RE: Pool Light?

I must be the only person who would put a transformer at the house (10 feet away) and run low voltage (24 volts)
to the deak box and then connect it with wire nuts to the light cord. I would also seal the openning in the back of the light nitch around the cord so that water does NOT run into the conduit.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Henry, if I may ask. Why bother doing this? There is NO point in sealing this conduit.
The transformer is fine if the light is low-voltage. This is typical.

-Is the conduit to the deck box PVC?
-Did you run the required #8 bond?
-Is the #8 correctly potted inside the forming shell?

I don't care how well you seal it. Because of hydraulic pressue water will likely get in the conduit.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

PETEY

i am in the pool biz and i am constantly sealing the
condiut when something (settlement etc) breaks the pvc condiut( it is only 1")and the pool leaks. i have never had one leak after it was sealed.
I would never run 120 volts to a pool light---24 volts is code.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

"I would never run 120 volts to a pool light---24 volts is code."

Care to cite a code refrence to back this up?


 o
RE: Pool Light?

If you want to put a 120 volt light in your pool and trust a GFI feel free. How about telling us where the commercial/municipal pools with 120 volt lights are so we can avoid them.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Henry,

Pete asked for a code reference to back up your assertion that code requires 24v lights for pools. Your response seems more like a politican's answer than a tradesman's! ;-)

Let's try again. Since you said "24 volts is code," I'd like to see that code reference too. This time, could you please quote chapter and verse from the NEC, or from your local ordinance if applicable?

Thanks, I appreciate it.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Yeah, that was a nice tap dance around actually answering the question. More scare tactics from someone who has an opinion but no facts to back it up.
Please Henry, let us know. I see more and more fiber optic lights going in as well as 24v and 120v. Please let us know where this code limitation on 120v pool lighting is so we can adjust our bookmarks.

120v pool lights are 100% LEGAL, SAFE, and practical when installed correctly!!! Maybe Henry is not installing them right?


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Does the #8 bond wire need to be solid or can it be stranded? Also, I assume it needs to be green insulated and not bare?


 o
RE: Pool Light?

The #8 bond for a wet niche conduit can be solid or stranded and must be insulated (green).

The external bond for the bonding grid MUST be solid.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

petey...
The basic idea of the bonding grid around the pool area tying all of the metallic parts (waals, ladder, pump, etc) make sense to me. Also keeping the bond separate from the electrical ground circuit makes some sense. But why is the deck box desigend to have a metallic bottom, and thus (I assume) requiring it to be bonded? If conduits in/out are metallic, it makes sense. But if conduits in/out are non-metallic, I do not know why the #8 bond wire or the metallic deck box is required.

Can you shed some light on this?


 o
RE: Pool Light?

just to add henry 506 post on using 24v liting in is systems does makes alot of sense.
just my opinion


 o
RE: Pool Light?

I honestly don't know why the deck box base is required to be metallic. I never thought about it before.

If non-metallic conduit is used, then the internal #8 bond IS bonding the box base.
There is no requirement to bond the deck box base to the bonding grid. It is inherently bonded through the forming shell.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

I have a question along these lines. In my case i need to replace the wiring of the Spa Light. The pool light works, but the Spa light has a short circuit. I need to find out what type of wire I need to purchase and where can I purchase it.
Thank you for your help


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Not much information given but lots requested. First you need to correct the short circuit. You may not even need new wire.
1) Is the spa outdoors?
2) Are you rewiring from the panel? From the switch?
3) How many amps is the circuit?
Get the idea?


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Am i correct in what i am reading about the pool light deck box (junction box). It must be 8" above the water line AND above the ground, exposed?
Can I cover it with dirt if it is 8" above the water line?


 o
RE: Pool Light?

The requirement is 8" above maximum water line, or 4" above ground level or the pool deck, which ever is greater.

NO, you cannot bury it.


 o
RE: Pool Light?

If the cable from the light will reach all of the way to the electrical panel, can i wire directly to the panel or do I have to have the deck box?


 o
RE: Pool Light?

Can I run the cable from the light through brass conduit 14 ft. to a garage wall and mount a metal box 18" above the water line, skip the deck box and pass N.E.C.?
Thanks


 o
RE: Pool Light?

NO, you cannot do that. You MUST install a deck box.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Electrical Wiring Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here