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imjayhawk

Replaced 3-way switch, now it works only in one position

imjayhawk
13 years ago

This morning, I replaced two 3-way switches that control a hallway ceiling light, and now it works on only one position. Both switches had one black wire connected to the common and then red and white connected to the travelers. When I replaced, I didn't care much about the travelers as I read in several DIY sites that it didn't matter. Unfortunately that doesn't look like the case. Now the switch works only when one of the switches is on the OFF position, but not when its on ON position. After consulting some wiring diagrams, I can't make sense of the way this circuit is wired nor why it is not working. One three way switch is by itself and the other is in a 4 gang box.

I'm calling the 3-way switch at the 4 gang box Switch1. Its wired with NM14-2 and NM14-3 wires. The Red and White from NM14-3 wire is connected to the 'travelers' and the black is connected to the hot wire for all other switches in the box. The NM14-2 cable's black is connected to the 'common' of the switch, and the white wire is connected to the neutral to complete the circuit for all switches in the box(I think!). Switch2 is by itself and has a NM14-3 whose black is connected to its Common and the red and white to its travelers. I have not looked at how the light is wired.

Here are my testing results (continuity tested using a multi-meter):


SW1
SW2
Continuity@SW1
Continuity@SW2
Light

On
Off
Redwire Whitewire
Off

Off
Off
Whitewire Whitewire
On

Off
On
Both Redwire
Off

On
Off
Both Redwire
Off

If you understand this circuit, can you help me fix this? I'd really appreciate.

Comments (19)

  • hendricus
    13 years ago

    1. Black from source (circuit breaker) to common of one switch. Black from light to common of other switch. Travelers to other two positions of switch.

    If switches are wired the same the light will be off if both are up or down. The light will be on if one is up and the other is down.

    There is no off or on position on a 3-way switch.

    Look for the word common stamped on the switch, maufacturers put them in different positions. If you went by the old switches they could be wired wrong.

    If you made no changes to the light don't mess with it now. The whole problem is with the switches.

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    "Look for the word common stamped on the switch, maufacturers put them in different positions. If you went by the old switches they could be wired wrong."

    I do not htink I have seen a 3-way marked with "common" in years.

    The common is usually a different color screw than the travelers.

    Black is often used with the travelers remaining brass colored.

    The position of the screws has NOT been the same over the years, so if you failed to identify the common on the old switch all bets are off.

    What you describe is usually caused by the common and a traveler being swapped.

  • imjayhawk
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thank you for the advice.

    Both the switches have the common marked. Even in the one that I replaced, they had the common marked (the screw is colored black). The travelers are not marked, but the screw is brass.

    It is for sure that the blacks on both old Switch1 and Switch2 were connected to the common. It is the red and the white that I'm not too sure about which traveler screw it was connected too. Since I read that it didn't matter, I didn't take care to note that down when I took it off.

    One thing I don't understand is how the first switch is wired. From the above posts, I gather that the common on the first switch has to be the hot wire so in my case the black on the NM14-2 is hot. If that is the case, what is the black on the other NM14-3 is connected to? The red and white of this NM14-3 is connected to the travelers on Switch1.

  • normel
    13 years ago

    If one switch has only a 14/3 going to it, at that switch connect the black to the common, the red and white to the traveler screws. At the other switch, connect the black from the 14/3 to the black going to the light and the red and white to the traveler screws. Connect the constant hot black to the common screw of this switch.

  • imjayhawk
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    After doing voltage tests, I found that the hot wire on Switch2 was hot. The red-white travelers then went to switch1. From switch1, the black common went to the light. Whoever said it didn't matter which traveler the red/white traveler wires are connected ARE WRONG. It does. Learned it the hard way.

  • hendricus
    13 years ago

    I do not htink I have seen a 3-way marked with "common" in years.

    Two decora 3-way switches bought at Menards and installed in June 2010, I have to use a magnifying glass but they were marked.

  • Billl
    13 years ago

    "Whoever said it didn't matter which traveler the red/white traveler wires are connected ARE WRONG"

    No. It sounds like you don't really understand the circuit. If you cross Traveler 1 and Traveler 2 between switches, all it changes is whether Up-Up means "On" or Up-Down means "On". If you switch the "travelers" and the light no longer works, then you misidentified the travelers or the common pole.

  • imjayhawk
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Billl:

    I see your point. But in my case, I had to put the travelers opposite of each other between the switches. I struggled on this for a long time until I used the multi-meter to test the hot. First I found the black wire that is connected to switch2 is the hot coming in, and not the black on switch1 as I had previously thought. The two red and white travelers from Switch2 connect to the Switch1's travelers. The black wire that connects to switch1 is then connected to the light.

    Breaker ----> Switch2 -------> Switch1 -----------> Light

    All this time, the black wires have always been connected to the switches' common. Since Switch2 has the hot coming in, at anytime either Red or White is hot going out of Switch2. When I had the white and red travelers go in the same traveler connections in the switch, it was only lighting the bulb in only one position. I then connected the white and the red just the opposite of Switch2 on Switch1 and it started working. But now that I think of it, it doesn't make sense. Oh well!!

    Thanks all for your input.

  • MegaBytes
    3 years ago

    I read this and was like, I have the same problem. So I decided to take it apart and swap the travelers as you had mentioned. When I opens the box, realized that the red traveler wire had snapped off when I was tucking in the wires. So I guess for me it didn’t matter. The red & white traveler wires where connected the same way on both switches.

  • MegaBytes
    3 years ago

    *when I opened the box...” dang autocorrect :-)

  • Matt Jablonski
    3 years ago

    Same issues, but no red wires. Only 2 black and 1 white... not sure how to follow that, other than I have found the hot wire. Do the positions of the light switches (1 up or 1 down, 2 down, or 2 up) matter when connecting the wires?

  • Rob Kitchel
    last year

    I am having a similar problem. UP-UP the light is on, UP-Down, Down-Up, Down-Down all 3 positions the light is off. I believe I’ve tried every configuration and cannot get Down-Down and UP-UP to both be on

  • mtvhike
    last year

    Have you tried to figure out the exact wiring? The simplest topology is for the power to go to the common of one switch, then a 3-wire cable (black, red, white) go to the second, and the common of the second switch and neutral to the light. The white neutral is not connected to either of the switches (unless they are "smart" switches), but just passes through their boxes.

  • phizwhiz
    last year

    I have a similar problem, where the lights come on ONLY when both switches are OFF. This started a week or two ago, and what makes it more interesting is that up until then, the switches worked when the switch we use most was in the ON position and NOT in the OFF position. Since nobody changed the wiring, how does this happen? I suppose a wire might have broken, or some critter might have chewed through one or another of the wires, but no critter evidence has been found. Any ideas?

  • mtvhike
    last year

    I don't think 3-ways have an "off" position. If both switches are "up" AND the lights are on, then they will be on when both switches are "down". If you reverse the travelers, then the situation of the switch positions will be reversed - one switch up and the other down puts the lights on.

  • phizwhiz
    last year

    Thanks. I agree and perhaps I should have said UP and DOWN. When our house was built, some three-way switches put the lights ON when the switches matched, Others put the lights ON when the switches were set one UP and one DOWN. My problem is that the three-ways in question used to work in one of these correct ways, and now, they only work when both sets are in the DOWN position None of the other 3 possibilities lights the lamps.


    I've replaced both switches, and it's still only both sets DOWN that turns the lights on. If I look at a diagram of one simple way the lights MAY have been connected, and assume that the wire from the panel is no longer connected to one of the switches, that could explain what I see. But, I don't know in fact how the wires were actually routed, so there could be a problem with one of the travelers. Doesn't seem easy to fix either way.


  • phizwhiz
    last year

    Oops. I found the problem. First, it was the switch, which failed. Then it was me. I replaced both three-way switches, and despite having taken photos of the wire configurations, I managed to flip the white and black leads in one case. After the fix didn't work, unsurprisingly, I went back a few days later and saw my error. Everything works as advertised now.

  • HU-891296451
    last year


    red and white to gold and black to the other