Forgot to mention that the meter has what appears to be #6 copper coming down to a grounding rod just below it.

The rust is troublesome, but doesn't necessarily itself rise to a problem.

If you replaced 12 G with 14, make sure you are also not using more than a 15A breaker.

If the panel is NOT grounded, you have a massive problem. Are you sure it is really not grounded. If the panel is the main disconnect there isn't typically a seperate neutral and ground (in fact, it is required to be bonded together there if they are). That thing coming in from the meter is most likely also grounded to your ground rods. Are you SURE there is no ground coming into the panel other than the water pipe?

A metal water pipe coming in from underground needs to be connected to the (other) grounds regardless of what the interior piping is made out of.

If the interior piping is metal, it needs to be bonded to ground (this may also be served by the above ground connection).

I've gone back and double-checked visually. Picture of lug holding copper ground is attached (lug is at the top of bus bar to the left of the main breaker). I used my hand and ran it the length of the ground, from outside the panel to the water pipe. No tie-ins, clamps or splices found.

I tried testing several breakers too. Putting one lead of simple 120V light tester to hot pole to any 15 or 20 amp breaker in this main panel and then touching the tester's other lead to the main panel/box does nothing. Moving the tester's lead from the panel/box to the neutral bar, tester lights up.

Only ground I can find (the one in the picture) goes to a water pipe.

So, am I looking at installing another ground rod (6+ feet away and running copper out to it?

...but the metal box itself is not part of the grounding system. Isn't that...um...."bad"?

I'm just spit-balling here, but with the sheer amount of bare copper grounds coming into this box....doesn't it kind of figure that surely ONE of them is touching this main breaker panel?

I'm going down to check out the subpanel next to it and chase down it's ground.

(think I know what I'm working on today....)

ronnatalie....I've re-read your e-mail and realize we may be talking about two different things.

1. All the wiring in the house that has been replaced over the years has a hot/neutral and a ground. The neutral bar and the ground bar are connected at the base of the panel. Kind of forms a big "U" around the hot post which the 30+ breakers are hooked onto. Think the electrician took some measure of pride in his work as almost all of the neutrals are on one bus bar and all of the grounds are on the others. But, again, they are connected at the bottom (is that bonding?).

2. The large copper wire in the lug pictured in previous posting does go to the water metal pipe, but as the neutrals and grounds are bonded together, there is a neutral lugged from the service to the top of the other bus bar.

3. My initial post was expressing surprise that the metal breaker box itself was not grounded. The tester touching a hot post to the metal box. Shouldn't that complete a circuit?

Just making sure this thing is safe before I move on and ask other questions. Thanks for your input.

Here's picture of upper 1/2 of panel. Left side: grounds.
Right side: neutrals.

Only ground leaving the box is lugged and terminates at water pipe.

But the box itself does not seem to be grounded as per light tester.

OK, I misunderstood you. You mean the metal case itself doesn't appear to be grounded. That would be a problem. Typically the ground lugs are connected to the case internally. Are you sure you're touching some part that has the paint removed enough to make a good contact?

ronnatalie....

I didn't know that paint was such an effective barrier to current. That was the ticket.

2nd lead to edge of panel box and got voltage.

Thanks.