Hi,
Thanks for the posts. I simply assumed that if 110 used a hot, a neatral, and a ground that running 220 would involve one additional hot. It goes against what I thought I knew to run the circuit without a neutral but thats why I come here. To get this project right should be an easy fix-I just need to ignore the neatral wire I ran, connect the green insulated ground to the ground terminal inside the motor and connect the GFCB's neautral connection to the bus bar. I can also go to a three prong twist lock plug and nonnection. Since the GFCB white pig tail is already connected to the bus bar is this necessary? An electrician I work with indicated he beleived nothing needed to be connected to the neatral lug on the GFCB which leads me to wonder then why have it? We may add a timer in the future but for now this was just to get of the extension cord we had been using. My wife(who does the pool maint) wanted a switch at the pump to make it easy for her when she is adding chlorine to the chlorinator or backwashing. I preferred to go with the cord just for the convenience of being able to uplug the unit if I needed to work on it or for when it needs to be replaced. With the cord I can quickly and easily take the unit out and bring it to my workbench. I should add that I made the mistake of storing the unit near some chlorine last winter and the oxidation was amazing. The rotor was seized and I'm sure I shortened the life span of the motor-hence my anticipation of having to change it out. I'm still having trouble adjusting to the idea that my 220 circuit has the same number of wires as my 110. Can anyone easily explain the electrical theiry behind this in a way a non-electrician can understand?

Thanks

Yes, in a straight 220 volt circuit the energy cycles from line to line. Two hots and a ground.
In a 120 circuit it cycles from line to neutral. One hot, one neutral and a ground.
This is why a load, such as a motor, will draw half the amperage at 220 than it would if wired 120v.
Then there are circuits which are 120/240v, such as a dryer. These circuits have mainly 220 volt loads, with smaller 120 volt loads, such as a light. They require two hots, neutral and ground.

As for the GFCB, the breaker neutral is connected to the bar so it can refrence ground. The breaker then senses any imbalance between hot to hot, and hot to neutral. In the case if your straight 220 motor there will only be hot to hot amperage.
Any amperage other than those parameters means there is a fault to ground and the braker will open.
I'm sure someone else can explain it a bit clearer but that is my take one it.

This is why a load, such as a motor, will draw half the amperage at 220 than it would if wired 120v.

Careful about saying it that way. I know what you mean - for a given level of power consumption, the current is halved when the voltage is doubled. But when you say it this way it can confuse folks. (And then they post here!)

If you have a dual-voltage (120/240 volt) motor, it will use half the current at the higher voltage (when strapped for that voltage), all other things being equal. Same with a heating device or other appliance which is set up for dual voltage, when properly configured. Same with a laptop power supply designed to be used from 100 to 250 volts.

Note that I say this applies only to dual voltage or multi voltage devices. If you connect a 120 volt (only) device to a 240 volt line, without making any other changes in the device, in most cases it will draw TWICE the current it drew at 120 volts. Most likely it will be destroyed in short order.

Yes, I do agree. But he said to explain it so a non-electrician would understand. I guess I went too general in my explanation.
You are correct, DO NOT ever wire a 120 device at 220, and vice-versa, unless it is designed to be.

" I'm still having trouble adjusting to the idea that my 220 circuit has the same number of wires as my 110. Can anyone easily explain the electrical theiry behind this in a way a non-electrician can understand?
Thanks"

Butch,
In simple e-101
Electricity is the flow of electrons, in DC current the flow of electrons is allways in the same direction THUS a + (POS) and a - (NEG) terminal required to make a circuit.

In A/C the POS and NEG take turns so to say, creating a current of electrons that changes directins many times per second.

I wont touch three phase for this lesson.

On a single phase service (such as most all residential services) the Voltage supplied to the house is in the form of two HOT legs and a neutral/ground (at this point they are the same) the 220 voltage comming in to the service panel is split in half by way of the neutral bus creating two 110 Busses (one for each hot) compared to neutral.
The ground leg is primarily for safety and un-balanced loads.

With that you need a hot (either one) and a neutral to make 110V.
Thus a hot, neutral and a groung. Three wires

For 220 you just take the two hots (remember it came in the house that way and we split it nalf with the neutral?)
And we add the ground for safety and erroneous left over electrons can return to the planet to be excited again.

Hope this helps
Mark

Hi,
Thanks for the explanations. I do know how to spell theory, I just don't know how to type quickly and accurately at the same time. Since I don't plan to make my living as an electrician its less important that I understand it, as compared to just doing it properly and safely. Tonght I went to my favorite Home Depot to get the three wire plug and connector. I know I could just disconect the neutral from the 4 wire outlet and conector but I'm a nit pic about details like that and want it to be as close to what a pro would have done as i am capable. So heres my new question. When I grabbed the plug off the shelf i noticed that not all the plugs matched the outlets ie some of the outlets had the wide tab to the right of the grounf slot while others had it to the left(looking at them straight on with the ground slot up). I then realized I need to get the plug that corresponded to the outlet. Now I'm curious why there made two differant ways and if there is any significance to that. These are a 20 amp locking plug and a 20 amp locking outlet.
Best regards,
Butch

Hi,

I changed out the plug and outlet todday. I used the three wire twist lock type. 2 hot wires and the ground at the pump. At the panel I disconected the neautral wire I had run to the neutral connection between the two hot leads. I left the white pigtail wire connected to the buus bar. Initially (as I thought I was supposed to) I ran a wire from the neatral lug of the gfcb to the bus bar but that caused the breaker to trip so I removed it. So npw I'm left with the two hots connected to the lugs on either side of the empty neautral lug and the white pig tail connected to the bus bar. The breaker appears to operate correctly in this configuration. I just don't understand why they build the GFCB with a lug for the neautral if its not necessary?
Thanks for any feedback.

Sometimes it is necessary. A multi-wire circuit for instance.

Question? I am adding a subpanel to feed a new pool setup. I have 2 motors, one for the main circ. and one for the polaris cleaner. In the sub-panel 20 dp gfci dedicated breakers for each. I am running #10 thhn blk,red,green for the 240 pumps setup. The neutral and ground are on the same bar in the main panel, but I understand for the 240 pump set up I do not need a neutral, where in the subpanel do I hook up the green ground, do I hook it to the netrual bar, or do I hook it to the ground bar? At what point does the neutral and ground become diff.

thanks.

Muddy_Water wrote:

"Peter you are right...Butch rather than using a plug for a disconnect, have you thought about useing a timer with the outlet mounted below or hard wire the pump to the timer. I just don't like the idea of something pulling 14-16 amps useing a plug for disconnect..And adding a switch in the circuit in my experience will give you trouble later. A timer on the other hand will let you control how long your pump runs each day and give you a disconnect as well. You can also buy them temp controlled for freeze protection. Just a idea I know you would have to backup somewhat to do this.... "

That seems like the easiest method, and looks like the option I will use.

To make sure I have this clear for a 220v 1HP 2 speed installation 15'+ from inground pool located in Florida (no freeze, runs year round):

Add a normal (Not GFIC) 220v 20amp breaker for pump in empty slot.
Run 12/2 Romex from panel to junction box 20' indoors. Then 12 gauge, 3 wire, THHN into 18" underground 3/4" PVC to pool equip shed about 40' away. Attach this to 220v timer mounted on 4x4, and timer to pump. No outlets in shed, and pump is hardwired in. Timer will be used as disconnect for light maintainance like basket cleaning. (convenience outlet will be off patio, approx 15' from water and 20' from shed, on another curcuit). No GFIC needed.

Look correct?

Thanks,
Rob

I don't think the timer will pass as a means of disconnect. I would still add a switch or disconnect somewhere close to the pump.
Everything else sounds fine.

Edit to above.
No GFIC needed was in reference to pump only.

Just checked my timer, and it is an Intermatic T104 with metal case. It is not a waterproof case, but does not say Indoor use only. Since it will be in a small enclosed shed, do you think it will be allowed?

Also, since this will not have a sub panel, is it possible to simply use 12/2 Romex inside the PVC, or is THHN a requirement either way?

Thanks.

Thanks for the reply Petey_Racer.

If I bring timer into garage, where it was intended, then install switch on 4x4, will GFIC still not be required?

"Also, since this will not have a sub panel, is it possible to simply use 12/2 Romex inside the PVC, or is THHN a requirement either way?"
No NM at all outside the house where the pump is concerned. The ground MUST be insulated, so: THWN.

"If I bring timer into garage, where it was intended, then install switch on 4x4, will GFIC still not be required?"
The no-GFI exception is in regards to the pump being hard wired, as opposed to plug in. It has nothing to do with a timer or any switching device.

Thanks Petey_Racer, that was how I originally expected to do it, but thought that method required DP 220v GFIC breaker, so you saved me some cash with your answer. Will DP switch need to be a special type (or in a special case/box) when placed in equip shed for this purpose?

Last question on this topic. (hopefully)
The only ground run from the home is going inside the pump motor for it's 220v.
The #8 bonding wire is attached to lug on pump motor case, and to all metal around pool.
Does the bonding wire require it's own grounding rod (probably in equip shed)? Or is it connected to main home ground from inside the motor automatically, so it only needs to be attached to motor housing, and no additional ground rod required? Or, does an additional ground wire need to be run from home, through PVC, to pump housing which grounds the bonding wire? I thought you only want one grounding rod in any home?

Thanks for your help.

The pump is grounded with the circuit conductors.
The bond is NOT a ground. The best way to describe this is to quote the commentary from the NEC Handbook:

It is important to understand the difference between the terms bonding and grounding as they apply to Article 680. As defined in Article 100, bonding is ``the permanent joining of metallic parts to form an electrically conductive path that ensures electrical continuity and the capacity to conduct safely any current likely to be imposed.'' As described in 680.26(A), the function of equipotential bonding differs from the function of bonding to meet the requirements of Article 250 in that providing a path for ground fault current is not the function of the equipotential bonding grid and associated bonding conductors.
Creating an electrically safe environment in and around permanently installed swimming pools requires the installation of a bonding system with the sole function of establishing equal electrical potential (voltage) in the vicinity of the swimming pool. A person who is immersed in a pool or who is dripping wet, has a large amount of exposed skin, and is lying or walking on a concrete deck is extremely susceptible to any differences in electrical potential that may be present in the pool area.
The primary purpose of bonding in and around swimming pools is to ensure that voltage gradients in the pool area are not present. The fine print note explains that the 8 AWG conductor's only function is equipotential bonding to eliminate the voltage gradient in the pool area.
The reason for connecting metal parts (ladders, handrails, water-circulating equipment, forming shells, diving boards, etc.) to a common bonding grid [pool reinforcing steel, pool metal wall, or an alternative bonding grid as described in 680.26(C)(3)] is to ensure that all such metal parts are at the same electrical potential. The grid reduces possible injurious or disabling shock hazards created by stray currents in the ground or piping connected to the swimming pool. Stray currents can also exist in nonmetallic piping because of the low resistivity of chlorinated water.

I know that electrical conduit must run no closer to a pool than 5 feet. How about the pool light wiring? Can that be run closer since it obviously ends up at the edge? I don't see that specifically listed in the code.

I'm putting in a vinyl lined pool and a trench exists along the side of the pool but it is 3' wide maximum. One local electrician said I could use it (but he also said I could use the same trench for the line from the main panel in the house to the sub-panel in the shed, I did not).

Thanks

If it is pool related there is no 5' rule:

"680.10 Underground Wiring Location
Underground wiring shall not be permitted under the pool or within the area extending 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside wall of the pool unless this wiring is necessary to supply pool equipment permitted by this article. Where space limitations prevent wiring from being routed a distance 1.5 m (5 ft) or more from the pool, such wiring shall be permitted where installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, or a nonmetallic raceway system. All metal conduit shall be corrosion resistant and suitable for the location. "

Got it, so must the conduit to the subpanel be outside 5' even if it is pool related?

Thanks.

I would say yes. The panel may be pool related, but not exclusively.
I would say this is an AHJ (inspector) call.

OK wiring goo-rus. Here's one for you.

Installed a subpanel w/ 30A. disconnect for pool. Pool co. installed 2 new jazz lights during building process. The lights have a filter motor & the bulb. When I energize the filter motor on either light, they work fine. When I turn on the light, the GFI breaker @ the disconnect trips. Tried one light at a time w/o the filter motor....GFI trips. Tried wiring direct to the lights w/ no switch....GFI trips. (if I disconnect the GFI pigtail from the neutral bar, the lights work fine.)

Any thoughts????? Ray

It sounds like they did not wire the lights correct. Did they test them before they left??
I would say there is a neutral and ground connected or touching somewhere downstream of the GFCB.
Where are the grounds and neutrals from the light connected?
Are the grounds and neutrals isolated in the sub-panel?

Question about lighting, ground and bonding (inground vinyl with polystyrene walls, in Florida) that has me confused.

From link above per codes:
""Special Notes" THAT THE DWELLING ELECTRICAL GROUNDING SYSTEM MUST NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE BONDING GRID."

Our Hayward plastic light niche SP0607U has a combo bonding/grounding connector. Bond wire attaches to outside lug and then to other pool metal, and ends at pump. Other end of lug is inside niche, and ground wire is attached when using PVC conduit, and this is run to electrical box. So it appears as though this combo lug will ground bond to homes electrical..??..??

Also on same subject. Light used is 12v 300w. This goes to Intermatic 110v/12v transformer, then to 110v. Since it is a transformer, manual states it has protection built in, and only Canada requires GFIC. Is this still correct, or do I need to run this light to a GFCI breaker?

If GFIC is always required for light, can I also use this GFIC breaker protected curcuit for required 110v outlet near pool, using standard outlet (in proper box)?

Thanks!

The intent is that the bond wires do not go to the system grounding electrode. As confusing as it seems, they are both bonds. The outside is part of the bonding grid. This is to keep all metal parts on the same ground plane and eliminate voltage potential.
The inside wire is to bond around the PVC pipe, from the niche to the deck box.

This light requires no GFI protection. In any case you cannot use the general receptacle circuit. Rules for pool lights are very strict. Please do some research before continuing this.
Here is a small part and I will give you a link below to more:

" 680.23(F) Branch-Circuit Wiring
(1) Wiring Methods. Branch-circuit wiring on the supply side of enclosures and junction boxes connected to conduits run to wet-niche and no-niche luminaires (fixtures), and the field wiring compartments of dry-niche luminaires (fixtures), shall be installed using rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit, or rigid nonmetallic conduit. Where installed on buildings, electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted, and where installed within buildings, electrical nonmetallic tubing, Type MC cable, or electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted.
Exception: Where connecting to transformers for pool lights, liquidtight flexible metal conduit or liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be permitted. The length shall not exceed 1.8 m (6 ft) for any one length or exceed 3.0 m (10 ft) in total length used. Liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit, Type B (LFNC-B), shall be permitted in lengths longer than 1.8 m (6 ft).

Here is a link that might be useful: In-ground pools

I have the same type Hayward Niche described above, do I HAVE to connect the #8 Bond to the deck box? I tried but it was tought trying to pull both the light wire and the #8 through 3/4" pvc. I also don't see why it would need to be run to the box.

This is a vinyl liner pool so I don't have the typical bonding grid. How do I run the #8 wire from the pool to the pump? do I need conduit or just burry it with the water pipes, etc.? The wire is obviously exposed elsewhere.

Yes, you HAVE to run the #8 inside the 3/4" PVC. If you can't understand why then you really need to read up on the subject. This is a VERY important step. You also need to cover the lug connection inside the forming shell with the spacial potting compound. This is also an important step.

I don't care if the pool has a vinyl liner, you MUST(!!!) have a bonding grid. Again, read up as to why this is very important.
Is there any steel used in the walls or frame?
Is there a metal forming shell for the light?
Is there a metal ladder? Handrail? Coping?
All this MUST be bonded. And the lugs are very specific for the purpose as well.
. .
. .
. .
All this, and basically this whole thread, is why I feel very strongly that pools are NOT a diy job. There is too much at stake. Folks pay thousands to have a pools professionally installed rather than doing it themselves, but they scoff at another thousand (more or less) to have it wired professionally. For some strange reason they put less importance on the fact that they are mixing water and electric. This boggles my mind.

There is a bonding grid, it just is not TYPICAL one as there is no structural steel in the pool. The bond consists of an aluminum coping which runs around the top edge of the pool. The ladder, step railing, etc. are also included.

I can read and figure out (with the help of generous people like yourself) what to do. But I know that there is a lot at stake and I want to be sure I get it right. These questions I have asked are details that I have not found here or elsewhere.

I built the entire pool myself and would have had a "pro" do the electrical but:

1. The estimates I got were in the 2-3 thousand range for a pool that should cost less than a concrete pool.

2. They did not seem to know what was or was not involved with this type of pool and so they padded their price to be safe.

So I will ask you what the is reason for running the bond wire to the light box? The niche instructions even show this as "optional". The light is already connected to the bond.

And my other question is: Does the bond wire have to be run in conduit from the pool to the pump? If so how does the conduit end/begin since there is nothing to connect it to? (at either end)

Thanks

Thanks for all your help and input Petey_Racer. It is appreciated.

First, the reason why I'm doing it myself, then a question.

So far I have had 3 electrician friends come to my home and discuss the electrical, and have 3 different answers to my questions. Seems there is a big gap between a Pro and someone that knows how to do it correctly. This is common for all aspects of pool construction.

Some fun examples from the electrical "Pro's" that came by.
Prior to this thread, I explained to one that I planned on using a 220v GFCI breaker for the pump motor, and the expert that has been doing home wiring for 10 years said there is no such thing as a 220v GFCI breaker, "they only come in 110v breakers". A week later I saw him again, and he said "Oops", I was correct. (I have seen similar posts in forums from Pro's that also didn't know those existed). Same guy also wanted $1000 to change out service panel. I later did it myself for $160, then had the "Pro's" look at it, and they said it was done correctly. None said I needed a permit (I think all 3 were wrong, but what do I know as I'm only an electronics tech).

Another "Pro" that has been wiring pools for 10+ years kept telling me we would run THHN underground from home to equip pad, yet I kept correcting him by saying THWN. I finally came right out and said he will use THWN, right?, and the Pro responded back with, No, he will use THHN, not THWN.

Back to question.
The insulated #8 from inside the niche runs through PVC to metal transformer box. Is this connected to the box, or to the ground circuit in the box (are they isolated in the box)? 110v goes to this box from home. Is this 110v circuit's ground also attached to the transformer box? If so, then you have technically attached the homes ground electrode to the inside of the light niche, and the inside of the light niche is attached to the outside of the light niche through it's combo lug, which then means entire bond is connected to home ground, which is prohibited.

Also, two out of three Pro's stated like this thread has, that light requires no GFI protection, yet every code and instruction manual I've found said light must be on GFCI protected circuit. (One of the three pro's that came by said light needs to be on GFCI breaker.)

Now, is it better to ask questions like this in forums before a "pro" or homeowner does the job? I think very much so. Chances are we will get much better advice here, because if a pro posts info that may not be 100% correct, another pro will (should) respond, and eventually the non-pro (those of us trying to learn) will see the correct way. That can't happen any other way like it does in forums.

Thanks again for your help.
Links are a great guide too, but since the links for inground are from 1999, I wonder how accurate they are for some parts of the country now in 2005?

Forgot to add.
Doing it yourself is not about being cheap..

I can pay anybody to do a bad job, or do the job wrong, and then I am not too happy. Heck, I can do the job bad or wrong just as well as anybody. But, I have an advantage. Since I do not do this for a living, I do not have another client waiting for me to hurry up and get to. I can take my sweet time, study all the options, ask all the questions, and hopefully, do it as good or better than any pro, simply because I have the time.

The pro I mentioned above that has been doing pool wiring for 10+ years, offered to help me with the wiring as a side cash job, for less than he normally charges, and would even supply free parts that he had extra laying around. It would have cost me less than $200 total to go that route, yet because of the THHN not THWN remark he made, I will keep the $200 and continue to do it myself. Little things like this are why DIY works for many.

RobsTV -- Thanks for the follow-up,

Hydra pool? That is what I'm putting in.

How did you run your bond wire from the pool to the pump?

My niche/bonding question...

I don't have a metal transformer box. Just a standard pvc junction box designed for pool lights found here:

http://www.cheappoolproducts.com/Swimming~Pool~Light~Accessories_54_1435~product.html

I have been looking but I still can't find out why this pvc box needs to be connected to the bond grid.

Thanks to all, this is a great forum. I could not have gotten as far as I did without it.

I hope I did not scare Peter_Racer away, he has so much to give to us who would like to learn.

Is this why?

"Stray currents can also exist in nonmetallic piping because of the low resistivity of chlorinated water."

Hydra here as well.

From what I gather (please correct as needed).
#8 "Bare" copper wire from outside lug on light niche to metal bracket that will hold deep end ladder, to metal bracket that will hold step rail, to lug on outside of pump motor. If you have other metal within 5' of inside pool wall that is 4" or greater, it too must be connected to this bond grid. (see link above for other rules). Must be one continuous wire with no breaks. It is not ran in PVC, and is at least 18" under ground inside pool trench.

Light in use here is 12v 300watt, so 110v/12v transformer required. Because it has transformer and is 12v, no GFCI breaker needed (still confused on contradictions). Other types of lights require GFCI. Pump and light must run on there own dedicated circuit (can not share or branch off in most cases).

Niche is plastic, and will be using PVC, so inside the light niche you must connect an "insulated" #8 wire to designated lug, (after attaching wire to lug, lug must also be covered in a proper potting material per your light niche install manual). This insulated #8 wire runs from inside niche, inside PVC, to junction box (or transformer). Then?.? Is this part or Bond "ground" not bond grid?

Above is not done yet here. Vermiculite is on back order (still might not get it from place ordered), so work is going slow. Will do the wiring this week though.

Trying to find easiest route to run wires from Service Panel to pool light transformer, while still having an easy to access light switch.

Is it possible to use an X10 switch for pool light (mounted indoors on 110v side)? This would allow placement of switch in a location that makes wire run easy, yet would still allow light control remotely from any location.

I know X10 has issues with circuits that have combo ceiling "fan" with light, and since my install used a 110v to 12v transformer, was wondering if that too would cause issues? Not a motor like a fan has, but not a normal connection either.

Thanks.

I'm trying to get something straight on the Nobel Process for making up nitroglycerin. Do I add the nitric acid before the sulfuric acid, or after the sulfuric acid?

SolarPowered,

See, that's what I'm talking about that makes these forums great!

Instead of doing something stupid, you do the right thing, and ask a question.

A dumb or off topic reply would not help you, as it seems you are determined to do your project anyhow.

Unfortunately, your question is in the wrong forum. Do a search for a forum better suited to your remarks, and I'm sure you will be making explosives correctly in no time. (Unless that is illegal, in which case it does not belong in forums like these).

Good Luck!

(Note. Be careful of advice that seems to come from pro's. Many times, even some Pro's screw up (yep, some are human), and they have no clue what you are talking about (not referring to anyone in this thread), so instead of helping you, they will instead attempt to get out of looking stupid by switching the discussion to other topics, or they may just go to the good old blanket statement, "Don't do it because you are not qualified". You intend on doing it no matter what, so stick with it and you will succeed.)

I don't know if you're post is intended to be sacastic. Just to clear up my intent, my post is indeed posted to the correct forum, to the correct thread, and intended to be dripping with irony that even Petey will recognize. ;) My point is that there are some things that are not DIY activites. Brain surgery. Mixing nitroglycerin. Wiring swimming pools. You've been warned, and warned again, so there's not much more that anyone here can say. I hope you don't end up with someone's death on your conscience.

From the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) and the American Red Cross:

"There have been 60 deaths and nearly 50 serious shocks reported over the past 13 years involving electrical hazards in and around swimming pools."

So please don't make this out to be something it is not.
Far more people die from eating bad food each year. Can wiring a pool incorrectly be dangerous? Of Course. Very!!! But at the same time, it is not like you need to understand 100's of parts to make it work right. For the task at hand, less than a dozen or so special needs (beyond basic changing an outlet type stuff) must be understood. Electrical wiring is fairly basic stuff, and is allowed by all local governments to be done by the homeowner. Wiring a car stereo is more complex (and safer) than wiring a pool.

All I am saying is, we are doing the job the "Right Way", and in order to do it correctly, whether by homeowner or by a Professional, we have some questions that have us concerned that many Pro's and/or documents seem confused about. The answer you give is not what anyone should take as final, but just as another tool to compare to other answers already found.

While it must feel great to try to wield power over others by saying what they can and can not do, in reality, you do not know what they can and can not do. Many deal with high voltage electrical inches from there face everyday, and even repair 100's of parts down to component level. Asking questions is a good thing. Help or go away.

Robs, While I do agree with the fist part of your last post, I strongly disagree with the latter.
You DO need to know 100's of parts of the code to wire a pool correctly and safely.

I also must say. This line:
"Wiring a car stereo is more complex (and safer) than wiring a pool."
..scares me if it is not sarcastic. You are putting WAY too little importance on knowing what you are doing and WHY!

Solar: It's three parts sulfuric added to one part cold nitric. Than slowly add ..........

Greetings all
I have searched online and found this thread
lots of the info is useful
#1 I was told to just drill a hole in the back of the breaker box to get wire from the outside to a new breaker for the pool punp.
#2 I had to replace my old pump and it showed up with one of those bonding lugs so do I now have to connect that to the pool frame?

I am completely a loss here. I am trying to hook up 3 separate pool pumps to an intermatic pe15300f timer that permits three separate circuits. The manual says this is SPST and my electrician says it needs to be DPDT. It seems odd since this unit is designed to run 3 separate 200 pool pumps. Am I missing something and is there a way around the rpoblem without having to buy a different equivalent timer ? If I need to do that ..any suggestions ?

Last post is a duplicate. Answers already given in another thread.

Hope this thread is still going. Starting an above ground pool wiring job and can't seem to find the info I need. Have a 1 hp pump (13.8amps) and a 2 amp heater. Will run 2 lines of 12-2 from a 30 amp breaker, 28 ft to outer wall of house, drill hole to outside and terminate both in a waterproof jbox. From there, run 3 wire 12 ga. thwn in sch40pvc 60 ft to pump/heater and terminate on 4x4 post 5 ft from pool and install 2 twist receptacles, 1 for pump and 1 for heater. What should I use to terminate at post before wiring to both recepticles? A run of outside rated cable(grey romex), will start at jbox and run along outside of pvc and somehow terminate at post for future use when I build a deck someday. I will then run 100 ft of underground cable from this junction box to a shed for 3 lights and 1 outlet only. What should I use to terminate this underground wire run at same post 5 ft from pool. And here is my big question. I want to be able to turn the heater and pump on and off at an elevated deck just outside a french door approxinately 22ft from pool and 51 ft from both devices. How do I wire the 12 ga thwn for 2 switches here? I do have a 60 amp 220 available. Should I use such a big circuit for everything instead of a 110, 30 amp. Or would 2, 30amp 110 be better. Thanks.

Your specs for the pump and heater seem out of whack. A 120V 1hp pump should draw only 7A and an electric heater should draw way more than 2A. Can you clarify the volt and current ratings for both appliances.

You can't run 12 ga wire off a 30A breaker, a 20A breaker is max for #12 wire.

The Hayward pump is 1hp, 115 vols, 60hz, 3450rpms and the 13.8 amps I referenced is listed as the maximum load so I should plan for that. The heater is gas so the 2 amps is only for the igniter. The 30A breaker came into play because I thought I could just get away with splitting up the 220 circuit I have available that has 2, 30A breakers.

As Bigbird said, you cannot protect #12 wire with a 30A breaker for receptacle and lighting circuits.

I know offering opinions are frowned upon here, but in my opinion, based on your questions, you are in WAY over your head in trying to wire for a pool. There are very specific rules to follow and trying to get that information from a DIY forum is ill advised. Do yourself anf your family a favor and hire this out to an electrician experienced in pool wiring.

I'm replacing the pool motor, and never wired up the 2 speed aspect of my motor, which I now intend to do oen way or the other. So, I have the following, hopefully, simple questions: 1. Since this Emerson motor EB-982 is designed to have one of the Line voltage 220s, L1, on EITHER the high speed, OR the low speed lugs in the motor,
I'm assuming that:
a. you can't connect that L1 220 line to BOTH high and low lugs at the same time -- right?
b. You CAN, while the motor is spinning in one of the two speeds, SWITCH the L1 from low to high, or high to low, without stopping the motor, using some switch/ relay
c. I cannot leave power applied to the L2 side of the motor if L1 is not connected to the high or low speed lugs

On the timeer, I wanted to see if I could use what I have, and add as little hardware as possible. Unfortunately, Intermatic 104s don't come with a complete schematic for us electronics guys. What I couldn't find on anyone's site, or on the company's website, how ALL the switches are wired to the lugs! For instance, Lug "A" --- WHAT is IT wired to?? the only reference I find is this: " "277/480 VOLT CONNECT MOTOR LEADS TO TERMINALS "A" AND 1 AND SUPPLY NEUTRAL TO TERMINAL "A" " I know how the other lugs are wired to which switches, because it is shown. But some parts of many devices must be deemed to be "common knowledge" to electricians, NOT showing how some parts are wired into the whole system, leaving us electronics guys that can fix TVs and computer, totally in the dark!! Anyway, ignore my rant, but this one bugs me --- I know I can either take it apart or test it with an ohm meter to figure it out. But it sure seems that it should be clear what that lug goes to. I'd hate to guess and be wrong about what it does go to.

Here is a link that might be useful: Intermatic 104 wiring diagram

Since 220v needs 2 hots and a ground and 110v needs 1 hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground can I use a single ground to connect both the 220v and 110v thus running 5 wires?

I have a simple question. I purchased a home that was built around 98...at the time, it was the model home in the neighborhood. For some stupid reason, they did not actually install a light into the pool...everything is there to do so, just did not wire it up. So, I have the pool drained to paint it, and I want to wire a pool light while it's drained. I am going to run 12/3 wire to the lamp, through the conduit in the pool deck, and the conduit comes out of the pool deck right next to the house, rises about 18", and empties into a GFCI outlet box. This GFCI outlet box has 2 conduits...the power feed, and the pool light. Then, connected to it, is another j-box that's empty and only about 5" away from it horizontally. So, my question...can I run a pool light timer/switch from the GFCI outlet to the switch and then the circuit would end there and not continue? That way, the switch is being fed by a GFCI outlet for protection....right?