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halmc

Junction box -- code?

halmc
10 years ago

Old, and I do mean old, vacation house -- shack would be more like it.

Several of the circuits run to the breaker box, but some are waaaay to short, leading to the prior DIY guy splicing with wire nuts on to each conductor, with wire nuts appearing inside the breaker box.

I could run new romax, of course, but that would be quite an undertaking. I have opted instead to mount a junction box about two feet away from the breaker box, done good splices (with wire nuts) in the junction box, then run the wires into the breaker box. Makes it a lot cleaner, but I wonder what code would say.

I have two circuits running into the junction box, but they are totally independent, each from the other. Thnx.

Comments (17)

  • btharmy
    10 years ago

    There is nothing wrong with having wire nut joints inside a panel. It is not a code violation. Unless you are obsessively concerned about what the inside of the panel looks like, even though it has a cover, I would leave it be.

  • halmc
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks for the advice, but my question was not whether the wire nut joints in the box were a code violation, but whether a junction box about a foot or so away from the box will be.

    The breaker box was a mess, I didn't mention that there were five separate circuits run into the junction box via romax w/o benefit of clamp/bushings to hold them in place -- just stuck the wires trough the holes.

    In other words, too late to leave it alone, and yeah, obsessive is my middle name.

  • Ron Natalie
    10 years ago

    While I'd have done a neater job than that. I wouldn't particularly call this installation "a mess."

    There is nothing wrong with having wire nuts in the panel like that, though the fact that there appears to be duct tape covering the wires leading to the top two is suspect. I might be inclined to remove the tape and inspect the connections made.

    A box a few feet away isn't "improper" per se, but frankly five circuits through it? I'd be computing the box fill on that. It sounds like the box capacity has been exceeded. Yes, there should be something holding the wire. The box should either have integral clamps or an appropriate NM fitting be fitted to a knockout hole. It's Romex by the way, a brand name for Type NM cable.

    A couple of other notes:

    Hopefully there the cover for this panel (there is a cover somewhere?) has blanks installed covering the hole where the breaker that is missing in the middle of the right side.

    Technically, the white wires used for the second hot in the 240 circuits should be remarked something other than white or green.

    While it's hard to tell given the resolution of the picture, it might be that the top one and bottom two breakers on the right side are the wrong ones for this panel.

  • Ron Natalie
    10 years ago

    I take back the comment on the wrong breaker, on my big monitor it does appear that they are all Bryant/Type BR breakers of some period.

    It does however look as if the wires coming into the top left of the box are not protected by a fitting. I'd also check that none of those 20A beakers are feeding any of the 14g wires coming into that panel.

  • halmc
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks for all the suggestions, especially the 14ga v. 20a breakers. I will check that for sure.

    There is a cover and it's correctly configured re the knockouts for the breakers.

    I was able to reroute three of the five circuits so the junction box I'm installing will contain only two circuits.

    My favorite item in the picture was the Romax (a generic term I picked up from an eledtrician friend) that shares the hole with the line feed at the top of the box -- note too no protection between the incoming 220 and the box.

    On the 220 breakers, of which there were three, I have encircled each of the white wires with a bit of black tape on two of the breakers. The third (bottom left) was being used as two 110 breakers. Now replaced with two independent breakers.

    I should be done with the breaker box today. If I don't burn the house down or send myself to an early meeting with Jesus, I'll post a picture of the finished product and brace myself for your helpful comments, which I do genuinely appreciate.

  • halmc
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Curiosity question: where a 220 breaker (where the switches are mechanically tied together) is used not as a 220 breaker but as two 110 breakers, if one circuit overloads or shorts, would the breaker break the circuit?

  • bus_driver
    10 years ago

    The logic escapes me. Adding a highly visible junction box because the appearance of the interior of the (normally covered) panel is displeasing?. The change does not make any technical or safety improvements.
    The double pole breaker is "common-trip". If one side trips, the other does also. Some double pole breakers have only one operating handle.

    This post was edited by bus_driver on Wed, Mar 26, 14 at 19:51

  • Ron Natalie
    10 years ago

    You can use a two-pole breaker (of appropriate rating) to feed two 120v circuits. It may be a nuisance to have either circuit trip the other, but nothing precludes it.

  • halmc
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    If logic were the only driver of human activity, we'd miss out on Jerry Lee Lewis, Pinky Lee; and the Third Reich would still be in bidness.

    The junction box will live behind an easily removable panel. Whereas the interior of the breaker box can't normally be seen by others, I know what's in it. And that's the dude I always try to make happy.

    Pretty much done with the breaker box, save for a new service entrance (The one in the pictures dates from 1952, or so I hear) and a handful of 15 amp breakers. Also thinking of including an AFCI for at least one circuit.

    If I've made any grave errors here -- other than a bit of a kow-tow to aesthetics -- pls let me know.

    This post was edited by halmc on Wed, Mar 26, 14 at 21:17

  • halmc
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Got lots of re-labeling to do too.

  • bus_driver
    10 years ago

    The initial post has --code? in the heading. Article 314.29, 2014 NEC.

    It now appears that the original post was not seeking advice, but approbation.

    This post was edited by bus_driver on Wed, Mar 26, 14 at 21:39

  • halmc
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Yup. That question was answered well before you made your contribution -- by answering a question that was not asked.

  • joefixit2
    10 years ago

    errrr, in your original post asking about code you left out one important detail, you did not say the junction box would be concealed behind the wall. Code prohibits placing a junction box in a place where part of the building finish must be removed for access.

  • greg_2010
    10 years ago

    Question for the electricians out there.
    Does the big gapping hole in the back of the panel have to be covered by something? To me, it seems like that much exposed wood wouldn't be a good idea.

  • greg_2010
    10 years ago

    And technically, isn't the sheathing on the cables supposed to be stripped back so that no more than an inch of it comes into the box?

  • bus_driver
    10 years ago

    The extra cable sheathing is not a code violation. The NEC specifies that at least 1/4" of the sheathing must project from the cable clamp device. No maximum amount is specified.

  • joefixit2
    10 years ago

    The "gaping hole" needs a bushing. It does not appear to be an unused opening so it wouldn't be required to be covered, but normally we would fill in that gap with duct seal or fire foam. On second look it is really hard to tell if any cables come into the hole but if none do it definitely needs to be covered with a listed plug.
    Also, the field installed backfed main needs a hold down if it doesn't already have one.

    This post was edited by joefixit2 on Fri, Mar 28, 14 at 20:48