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To my dismay..........

Posted by footwedge (My Page) on
Sat, Mar 19, 11 at 17:01

I found out that the outlet has to be replaced at the end of the peninsula.

Is there a way to install this so as not to interfere with drawer operation? The entire peninsula will be drawers from top to bottom. Also, I would think it will need to be mounted horizontally and would like to know if there's a receptacle available that if placed this way that the slots will still be vertical. The DW plans to keep a night light plugged in only if it will be upright.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: To my dismay..........

Put it near the back of the drawers on the end of the peninsula.

You might only have to trim one drawer down.

If it is vertical it will have minimal drawer impact.

The AHJ may allow you to put it on the back of the peninsula.

The code is not that explicit about location, and even wall outlets are placed so that no point is more than 24 inches measured parallel to the wall (not any spot on the counter).

Since many counters are more than 24 inches deep, the spacing is measured along the wall.


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RE: To my dismay..........

Does a shallow depth JB exist?


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RE: To my dismay..........

Yes, there are junction boxes that are 1 1/2 inches deep.

These boxes contain less volume, so you sometimes get into trouble with box fill rules. I attached a link that should assist with helping to figure out if a shallow box will work or not.

Here is a link that might be useful: box fill calculator


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RE: To my dismay..........

If you have a cabinet below the drawer, you can usually get a box situated that doesn't interfere with the drawer. Another option (in addition to the shallow boxes mentioned) is that depending on your countertop overhang, a surface mount (below the counter) may be an option.


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RE: To my dismay..........

he shallow boes are likely to have fill problems.

The wires are #12, the ground is #12, each device counts as two wire allowances, and if you use any internal clamps you use another wire allowance.

You are already up to at least 5 (and maybe 6) #12 wire allowances.

One trick is to use a 4 inch square box that is only 1.25 deep, and then add a plaster ring for a single receptacle.
The cut out in the cabinet must get the front og the plaster ring flush with the face of the wood, but it all gets covered by the plate anyway (the hole must be very carefully cut).


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RE: To my dismay..........

Thanks for the ideas.

There shouldn't be any fill issues, I hope, since the outlet is at the end of the run, only 1-#12 to deal with.


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RE: To my dismay..........

"since the outlet is at the end of the run, only 1-#12 to deal with."

You are not counting orrectly.

Each wire that ends in the box counts as one wire.

The device strap counts as 2 wires (of the largest sizer, #12).
The grounds all count as one more wire Of the largest size, #12).

You have at least 5 wires.

If you use the internal box clamps (external clamps do not count at all) they counts as one more wire (of the largest size, #12).

Now your count is 6 wires.


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RE: To my dismay..........

Is the device strap the receptacle itself?

Also since this needs to be a gfi outlet can this be added to the small appliance circuit? I currently have 3 gfi's on this circuit. The reason I want to do this is because I think a standard receptacle is not as deep as a gfi receptacle-have only look at pictures.


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RE: To my dismay..........

"Is the device strap the receptacle itself?"

Yes.

You can use as many receptacles on the small appliance circuit as required to serve the kitchen counter as you need.
ALL must be GFCI protected.

You can wire from the LOAD side of a GFCI receptacle and use a standard receptacle.
The GFCI protection is extended to any device on the LOAD side.


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RE: To my dismay..........

The first posting says that "the outlet has to be REPLACED". That tells me there is one there now.
I'm confused. If it is being relocated, that is understandable, but if it is just a replacement,
I don't see the problem.


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RE: To my dismay..........

Ibpod, the new peninsula is longer, cabinets will be all drawers and the outlet replaced was not gfi protected.


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RE: To my dismay..........

GFCI receptacles do not count any more for box fill than a regular receptacle.

It can make for VERY tight boxes.

If you use a GFCI that is back wired everything crams in a little easier.

You may need to start some accordion bends in the #12 to get it in there.


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Brickeyee?

is it ok to split/pigtail on the load side to feed the peninsula outlet beacuse it is located prior to the lead in to the gfi?


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RE: To my dismay..........

It's not clear to me what you are asking, but yes, you can split/pigtail anywhere along the circuit, as long as it's done in an accessible junction box. Every outlet on the circuit must be ground-fault protected, either by a GFCI circuit breaker, an upstream GFCI outlet, or the current outlet being of the GFCI type.


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RE: To my dismay..........

Just checked the existing box with the gfi and it's only 18 cu. in. - to small.

I calculated the required volume for 1 #12-2 in, 2 #12-2's out, 3 #12 pigtails and 1 receptacle. No clamps.

3 #12's for lead in includes ground
4 #12's out
0 for pigtails
2 #12's for gfi

9 #12's total @ 2.25 equates to a 20.25 cu in box.

Looks like I'll be replacing the box or finding another circuit to jump from.


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RE: To my dismay..........

Set a j box inside the cabinet and use a 2wire whip to the outlet box.


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RE: To my dismay..........

Tombs31, how does this eliminate the 2 additional 12's going into the existing box?

Brickeyee, I was sure hoping you were going to check my figures.


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RE: To my dismay..........

He's suggestion is to run only the 12-2 feed into the GFCI box. Make the connections for other devices on the circuit in a box in some other accessible but less sized-concerned locations.

That way you get rid of the 4 "outs".


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RE: To my dismay..........

I have a question regarding "Internal Clamps". Do the ones that are built into plastic boxes, for NM cable, count?


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RE: To my dismay..........

For box fill? Yes. Please start a new thread when asking a new question.


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