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littleriverbb

Six wires in a single outlet box?

littleriverbb
15 years ago

OK, so I wanted to replace a brown electrical outlet in an upstairs bedroom with a new white one (not at the B&B). I take off the cover and there are six wires coming out of the box...

two wired to the screws on the left

two wired to the screws on the right

two are snapped into the connectors on the back (seems like duplication)

My new outlet only has the four screws...no snap connectors on the back. I could probably buy an outlet with snap connectors but my questios are...

1) What would be the point of six wires in the box? It does not appear that it was ever a double gang box, neither the top nor bottom outlet is tied to a light switch, and they are connected to the same breaker in the box.

2) This wiring seems odd to me, is there any danger with wiring up the new outlet just like it currently is?

Thanks

Comments (23)

  • kudzu9
    15 years ago

    Make sure you choose one of the two options joed describes, and don't be tempted to buy a receptacle with push-in connections in the back. Although they are approved for use, they can sometimes pose a fire hazard because the push-in contacts don't provide really secure, high conductivity connections.

  • cyndyclayton_fastmail_us
    13 years ago

    I have the exact same problem, but my house is old and all 6 wires look alike, thick copper with a black rubber sheath, and a kind of gray & red cloth covering the rubber. In the back of the box there are two wires coming out of the top left, two out of the top right, and two out of the bottom left. There is a hole in the bottom right with no wires coming out. The outlet isn't grounded, so no ground wires. I was able to get 2 wires under one screw, so I tried a couple of configurations, but my overhead & two front porch lights won't turn on. How do I figure out which wire attaches to which screw?

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    "I have the exact same problem, but my house is old and all 6 wires look alike, thick copper with a black rubber sheath, and a kind of gray & red cloth covering the rubber."

    Gray is neutral, red is hot.

    If you want to test use a volt meter and an extension cord from a grounded outlet.

  • kudzu9
    13 years ago

    "I was able to get 2 wires under one screw..."

    Cyndy- What you describe is not only illegal but a potential fire hazard. I don't mean to be insulting, but if your approach to wiring this is to experiment until something works, you don't have the knowledge necessary to do this safely. Please get an electrician or someone with electrical knowledge involved in this before you get hurt or have a fire.

  • cclaytn8
    13 years ago

    Brickeyee, I meant each wire is covered with gray & red fabric, not one color or the other, but it sounds like I should follow kudzu9's advice and call a professional. I was just trying to save some money. I can't understand why putting two wires under one screw instead of one out the back of the same plug would make a difference, but I'll take your word for it. Thank you both.

  • kudzu9
    13 years ago

    Cyndy-
    I'm glad you're getting some help with this, and that you didn't take my suggestion as an insult. I'm all in favor of do-it-yourself to save money...except when it comes to wiring where a person doesn't have enough knowledge to know whether what they are doing is correct/legal/safe.

    As for the two wires under one screw, the screw connection can only handle one wire securely. I know it's possible to get a second wire under there, but, over time, as the connection warms up and cools down under use, the screw will loosen up, and the wires won't make as good a contact. When that happens, you can get extra heat, possible arcing, and receptacle failure, and fires. That is the kind of thing that isn't obvious when you haven't done a lot of wiring, and it's a good example of the type of trouble you can get into if you don't have a good enough knowledge base about wiring.

    Good luck.

  • rsampson03
    8 years ago

    Variation here- what if instead of three black, there is one black, one yellow and one blue, in addition to the three whites? I'm thinking the blue/yellow are hots to some under-counter lighting and are tied in with the black, but would appreciate any thoughts so as not to experiment.
    On a likely helpful side note, couldn't figure out why one of the two switches on a "3 way" hall light was up when power off. Opened up one of the switch boxes to find a lone hot wire (brown in this case) had come loose, just sitting by itself, exposed in the box. Yes, it had been wired into a slip-in connection. Wired it to the screw, switches both down now when light is off. So moral of the story- if suddenly one can't put both switches down to turn off, a possibility could be a loose wire on one of the switches.


  • User
    8 years ago

    Black, yellow and blue sounds like your wiring is in conduit. Where do you live? I would make sure of what each wire does before changing anything. Lighting should not be on the same circuit as your countertop receptacles. You should have two separate circuits with one feeding through to the lights, but I can't tell from here. DO NOT tie all the neutrals together if this is the case. A picture and more information would be helpful.

  • Natasha Shainline
    7 years ago

    I have 3 white 3 black but two light switches. The left and right I believe are for the lights and the middle is connected to the power. One was a dimmer and one a standard now how do I do this for just 2 standard switches ? Any help would be wonderful. Thank you

  • greg_2015
    7 years ago

    The only difference between a dimmer and a regular switch is that the dimmer required a neutral and the regular switch doesn't.

    So just hook it up the way it was but leave the neutral disconnected and cap it off with a wirenut (maybe tape it on with electrical tape so that it doesn't fall off). Or if the neutral wire is just a pigtail from a wirenutted group of neutrals then you could remove the whole pigtail.

  • Ron Natalie
    7 years ago

    Here's a good tutorial on box fill calculations:

    http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/box-fill-calculations

  • Eric H
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Quesiton:

    I also have an outlet which 3 sets of white/black wires with 1 green wire which is controlled by a light switch. I want to install 1 light fixture with only 1 set of w/b/g and can be controlled by that same light switch; I tried with each set and seem like none of it works; and also the rest of the outlet in the room does not work either; any suggestion will be helpful and greatly appreciated.

  • DavidR
    5 years ago

    Eric, please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be a wiseacre. Randomly connecting stuff to various pairs of wires isn't going to solve your problem. The basic problem here is that you don't have quite enough basic electrical background yet.

    Two errands.

    First, go to the hardware store and/or cheap tools store and get yourself some basic test gear. You need a DMM (digital multimeter) that can measure resistance (continuity). Also get a rubber light bulb socket with wire pigtails, and a 7 watt night light bulb that fits it. (The links are for illustration only, and are not meant to be endorsements.) You'll see how to use these after the next step.....

    Which is, go to your library and check out one or two books on basic electrical wiring for the homeowner. (Ask the librarian for help if necessary.) Read them all the way through.

    When you read about how switch loops work, I bet the light bulb will go on. (Sorry, bad pun.) With your new tools and quick education, you should be able to figure out which wire goes to what. If not, hop on back, and we'll see if we can help.

    Electrical wiring isn't all that complicated, it just has certain conventions that you need to learn.

    Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

  • kudzu9
    5 years ago

    I agree with the advice you were given by DavidR. I will say that, if the outlet is controlled by the switch, you can definitely control a light fixture. However, there is more than one way to control the outlet, and swapping wires without understanding the functions of all the wires is not a good way to approach this, and could be dangerous. In addition, if you have 6 b/w wires, you presumably have 3 cables, and, if it's Romex cable with ground, each of those cables should have a bare copper ground wire connected to the green ground wire.

    Please get educated or get help from a knowledgeable friend so you don't make a mistake and create a hazardous wiring situation.

  • Eric H
    5 years ago

    Hi David and Kudzu9

    Of course I wont find this offensive, I do believe if I put out the time to read then I will able to do it. It is just that it was a last-minute-weekend project thing and ran into this problem and was hope for a "quick fix/quick answer/quick pointer" from Dr Google. In the mean time, i will just reconnect everything the old way and use the plug-in instead of connecting them straight to the source. Again, thanks for the advice and will it read it up for next weekend project. :)

  • mtvhike
    5 years ago

    Eric, keep track of your three sets of wires - they are not interchangeable. As Kudzu says, there probably are three cables. If you look at where they come into the box, each cable should have a bare or green wire; these should be connected together and to the box itself (if it's a metal box) and to the green screws on your devices (you said you have only one green; is it already connected to bare wires from the cables?).

  • Erik Tihs
    3 years ago

    M at I have permission to attend this chat? Just got kicked out.

    Kudzo, so glad I happened on 2-11year old email chain. I have don't feel alone in the universe now. I thought I was just upgrading old outlet with new. Saw similar to what is described. Advise from home store, just pigtail everything. Too many wires and connections. Glad I was able to read all the chats. I will not do this myself.

  • Erik Tihs
    3 years ago

    Sorry auto correct messed up some of the

  • HU-48139410
    3 years ago

    Silly question I know, but how do you get the wires out that are pushed into the back of the receptacle. This is a 6 wire plug, 1 black and 1 white are under the screws, the other 4 are pushed in.

  • mtvhike
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    To wire from the back, don't use the backstab receptacle, but one like this where the wire goes under a plate behind the screw. Two wires will fit.

    And, this is not a plug (which is a male connector, usually on the end of a cord), but a socket (or outlet or receptacle).

    https://www.doityourself.com/forum/attachments/electrical-ac-dc/77778d1488346001-15-amp-receptacle-back-wire-12-awg-push-wire-electric_receptacle_20a_144_djfs.jpg

  • kudzu9
    3 years ago

    HU-....

    The push-in wires can be removed by shoving a very small screwdriver into the slot next to each one and applying pressure to allow the wire to release. It’s difficult to do the first couple of times, and it’s a real pain when you’ve got four wires to deal with. Sometimes it takes two people to press on the wire release and simultaneously pull out a wire. I usually just use wire cutters to sever the wires at the back of the outlet, and then I throw the outlet away because I consider them fire hazards.

  • Miles Mickelson
    2 years ago

    pig tail the wires