It was wrong to begin with. Permanent fixtures should not have been installed with lamp cord to begin with. Further you should not be making any modifications to the wiring in multiunit buildings.

Well, considering that almost everyone else in the building has the exact same setup in their storage bins, I'm not worried about having the "corporation" (the other 9 owners) upset with me.

And I never really thought of this as a permanent fixture; i just thought of it as a lamp that's fastened to the wall. If I brought the lamp down from the living room and set it on the shelf, it would be essentially the same exact thing--except for that socket that's screwed to the wall.

It's this sort of thing:

Aren't those always installed like this? They have screw holes, so I'd always assumed they're not really designed to be mounted on a junction box. (But I see that they are, according to this website where I found the picture.)

So is this truly dangerous?

And is there no way to have a light that's always in that spot, that lights the area better than the trouble lamp?

What if I just put a lamp socket on the end of the cord, and looped it over the hook? Sort of a "bare-bulb" trouble light? It just seemed that having it stationary was safer.

If so, then maybe I'll just install a hook up there to hang the trouble light on--I have one that will work, actually.

I guess I could get a clamp lamp, too. I just liked the bare bulb, bcs it spreads light more widely; all the shadows I get w/ the trouble light are annoying.

You can buy a clamp lamp without a reflector. That sounds like it would solve your issue.

All of the options you are describing with installed lamp cord are violations of the wiring code, and a potential fire hazard. If you want to do this right, you need to be able to plug it into a receptacle that is mounted to a box that is supplied with regular electrical cable. Those ceramic sockets have screw holes that are used to mount it to a junction box. Just having it screwed to some surface with the wire connections not enclosed is an accident waiting to happen. I deduce that you don't think this is very risky, particularly because other units have the same arrangement...but that doesn't make it right or safe. And after a fire, your insurance company may take a jaundiced view of such jury-rigged wiring.

The corporation being upset with you is immaterial. IT'S ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO DO THIS WORK. Further, it's patently illegal as well as unsafe to use cordage for this and the fact you seem are either incapable or unwilling to understand this is further reason why you should not be even attempting this.

"either incapable or unwilling to understand"??

My goodness! Did you completely miss the part where I said I'd probably switch to the trouble light or the clamp lamp?

As for me not thinking it's very risky--well, I always thought that was what those ceramic sockets were for--and I've seen them used several places.

So, I came and asked. I *ASKED*--did you notice? I ASKED.

Way to encourage people to come and ask questions--yell at them!

So, kudzu9, I want to get some clarification. You wrote:

"All of the options you are describing with installed lamp cord are violations of the wiring code . . ."

All of the options? I only mentioned one, which is the installation I inherited from the previous owners20 years ago. The other folks in the building have *some* sort of lamp cord, but I don't actually know how it's set up inside their bin; for all I know they have a desk lamp on a shelf. I only see their plugs outside near the outlets (and whatever they have, it's clearly been in place a really long time).

So, of the options that *I* am considering, are these all illegal? If I attach a light-bulb socket to the end of a lamp cord, and loop that cord over a hook over the door, is that illegal? It's really just a homemade trouble light, but would it be illegal, or unsafe? Or is the trouble light illegal? Would the clamp lamp be illegal? Or unsafe? Would it be unsafe if I removed the reflector from the clamp light? If I got a table lamp and bolted it to the wall above the door, would it be illegal? (that's actually what I thought those ceramic outlets were--a completely enclosed but oddly shaped lamp)

I need a light down there. I don't want to pay to install conduit, etc., etc. I want to be able to unplug it when I'm done, and I don't want to have to hold it in my hands.

I don't want to set a desk lamp on a shelf. I want something that will be above the door, so it doesn't shine in my eyes and cast stupid shadows.

Of the options I am considering, are they illegal? Dangerous?

Well, first you described how it was originally, then you described how your husband modified it, and then you said you bought some lamp cord to re-wire in some way.

Let's try to get to the bottom of this. It's not really clear whether you are trying to make your own trouble light or whether you are trying to set something up that is wired in or attached in some way. Whatever you want to do, where does it get plugged in? If you have a receptacle that is mounted appropriately in a box which is wired with cable or where the wiring is enclosed in conduit, and it has a cover plate, then you can temporarily plug in something like a trouble light or a lamp. If you have any length of lamp cord permanently wired into the rest of the wiring and/or attached to the structure in a non-temporary manner (like with fasteners), or substituting in any way for proper wiring, then it's not ok. You mention that it's something you would unplug when you are done with it, and that is fine...you're not supposed to leave temporary lights plugged in all the time.

In summary, a light fixture or trouble light with lamp cord and a plug on the other end can be temporarily plugged in to a properly wired receptacle. The reason you're getting a reaction from all of us is that it sounds like you want to do some non-complying wiring using lamp cord. Further, as pointed out, unless you are a licensed electrician, it's probably illegal for you to be modifying wiring in an apartment building.

If we haven't understood what you are trying to do, please expand.

Buy one of these (see link) for about $10 and an extension cord.

Drive a couple of screws in the wall to clamp it on to.

Here is a link that might be useful: clamp on light

I'm not trying to modify any wiring. I have NO idea where you are getting that. None.

There is a properly installed receptacle in the hallway outside my basement storage bin. I am not attempting to modify that.

The previous owners installed one of those sockets shown above, with lamp cord and a plug. We've used it for about 20 years, plugging it into the wall when we're there, and unplugging it when we're done. We never walked off and leave it plugged in.

When a bulb broke off in the socket, we stopped using it and switched to the trouble light. DH got annoyed w/ the lamp cord in the way, so instead of taking the whole thing down, he just cut the cord off.

I didn't realize it wasn't an appropriate fixture to use in that way. I thought it was simply the equivalent of an end-table lamp that screws to the wall instead of sitting on a table. Like a low-rent wall sconce that plugs in.

Since I know it's OK to change the cord to a table lamp, I thought I'd just change the cord to this; that's why I bought the lamp cord. But before I got started, I thought I'd check to be sure.

If I deserved to be yelled at, I wouldn't have even come to this forum to ask.

Wayne, how flexible are those clamp lamps? Can they bend on their own, or do you direct their beam by shifting the position of the clamp? I'll have to go look at them in Home Depot or somewhere, and see. I do have exposed framing above the door, so I have a horizontal and a vertical that I can clamp to (I just looked down there a minute ago).

Just take the cage and back shield off of a trouble light and you've got it. I have two that that would work on.

I wonder if I can get them off of this version. And my DH might complain, if he thinks he'd use it elsewhere (though he won't, actually, not often at all).

Thanks for that idea.

Let's try to get to the bottom of this. It's not really clear whether you are trying to make your own trouble light or whether you are trying to set something up that is wired in or attached in some way. Whatever you want to do, where does it get plugged in?

It gets plugged into an existing receptacle at the end of the short hallway outside this storage room (about 6 feet away from the door to our storage bin/closet). I have no reason to believe that this receptacle, which is attached to conduit, is not properly installed.

If you have a receptacle that is mounted appropriately in a box which is wired with cable or where the wiring is enclosed in conduit, and it has a cover plate, then you can temporarily plug in something like a trouble light or a lamp.

That receptacle is indeed in a metal box, with wiring enclosed in conduit, and with a cover plate.

If you have any length of lamp cord permanently wired into the rest of the wiring

There was *NEVER* any suggestion that the lamp cord would be attached to any sort of existing wiring. That's what the plug is for--to plug into the receptacle. If I were going to wire the lamp cord into existing wiring, why would I get a plug? (and, I'm not that stupid, to splice a lamp cord into existing wiring that's in a conduit, just so's you know)

and/or attached to the structure in a non-temporary manner (like with fasteners),

Wait--so if I go w/ the work light or clamp light w/ extension cord, and I don't want to have to get the stupid cord out and put it away every time, so I use those U-shaped nails to fasten the cord to the wall all the way down to that receptacle, I'm in trouble? If so, would I be okay if I used plastic clips? (and that seems silly because you could pull those U-shaped nails out relatively easily--but I do know that code has to pick the safest possible rule even if it might seem silly in some instances).

or substituting in any way for proper wiring, then it's not ok.

I didn't think of this as "substituting in any way for proper wiring." I saw it as replacing the cord to a lamp. It's just that what I considered to be the lamp is that mountable ceramic socket shown above. That socket is not connected to anything else. Period. It's freestanding. (OK, well, it's fastened to the beam so it doesn't flop around. But it's not wired to anything.)

You mention that it's something you would unplug when you are done with it, and that is fine...you're not supposed to leave temporary lights plugged in all the time.

I leave my table lamps in the living room plugged in all the time--is that wrong? Everyone I know does this. (I wouldn't leave this plugged in all the at, not even if it had a switch!)

In summary, a light fixture or trouble light with lamp cord and a plug on the other end can be temporarily plugged in to a properly wired receptacle. The reason you're getting a reaction from all of us is that it sounds like you want to do some non-complying wiring using lamp cord.

The big issue to me was that I do not consider this to be "wiring"; I considered it to be "replacing the cord on a lamp." And the reason I came here is that it occurred to me that I needed to check whether that socket apparatus would be similar enough to a table lamp.

Let me ask you this--if I brought a desk lamp down and screwed it to the wall, would that be a problem? Or if I bought a plug-in wall sconce and fastened it to the wall? That's what I originally thought I was doing.

I truly thought those ceramic socket holders were completely enclosed, and that the wiring inside them was pretty much like the wiring inside a regular table lamp. Electrically speaking, if not aesthetically.

Further, as pointed out, unless you are a licensed electrician, it's probably illegal for you to be modifying wiring in an apartment building.

Again--I was never intending to modify the wiring in the apartment building.

And again--I'm more than a little peeved that I got YELLED AT when I had already mentioned several other alternatives to my original plan. True, I did ask a question to clarify that everyone understood which fixture I was talking about, and I pressed for confirmation--that doesn't mean I deserve to get scolded like that.

I'm not yelling at you. I wouldn't have bothered carefully replying to you several times if I wasn't trying to help. I and others here are trying to keep you safe, not lecture you.

You inherited something that wasn't installed correctly, you modified it by cutting the cord, and then you asked about reinstalling it to its previous incorrect condition. Correct?

Now you've clarified things and it sounds like there is a proper receptacle to plug things into. As I said previously, you can temporarily plug a lamp into it; you can't fasten the lamp cord in place for any type of fixture using any means if you want to comply with the electrical code. I don't know what else to say...

Kudzu9, I'm sorry--I do realize that you aren't yelling at me, and I do thank you for the depth of your information. I'm sorry to keep crabbing about ronnatalie's all-caps.

I didn't realize that it's against the code to fasten a lamp cord in place. They sell things that hold cords and cables--are they not intended to use on lamps? only stereo speakers and phone cables?

So -- hypothetically -- if I have a lamp on my end table that plugs into the outlet a few feet away, and it keeps getting in the way when I vacuum, I can't fasten it to the baseboard to keep it from flopping around?

Or does it matter what I use to fasten it?

They sell some cord covers or cord clips that are obviously more temporary.

Like this--could someone use this to hold a lamp cord in place against the baseboard?

Or these sorts of clips?

This the sort of thing I'd thought about using, simply because it won't fall off the way the self-adhesive things might. I guess that makes it permanent, but I don't really think of it as permanent, because you could probably pull it out with your fingers.

Are these only appropriate to use w/ stuff like phone cords?

I understand that code would be written to keep people from using lamp cord as though it is wiring. But in my own particular situation, I can't figure out how the electricity is going to create trouble simply because the plug-in work light has a cord that stays in the same place all the time.

I guess that's why I'm probing this prohibition a bit--because it doesn't seem logical in this application. I'm not an electrician, but I do know the bits about electricity needing to be encased in insulating material that can't get breached or worn, not being bundled so the cords don't get too hot, using proper fasteners to join wires.

And if you hadn't mentioned it, I would never have guessed that it was not proper, and not *safe*, to fasten a lamp cord to a baseboard. (I haven't done that, but that's bcs I'm too lazy and I'd rather deal with vacuuming around the stupid thing.)

I apologize for the harsh words, but you seem to have been ignoring my well placed advice and bent on breaking the law and creating unsafe situations anyway. It's one thing to burn down a single family home and take your kids with you, it's another to subject unknowing neighbors to your folly.

The staples/nail clips are right out. Those are not designed for cordage and cordage is not designed to be stapled or otherwise nailed down. The plastic chases are probably OK, as long as you are using some listed cord connected lamp and not a jury rigged thing like you were trying to originally recreate.

"you seem to have been ignoring my well placed advice and bent on breaking the law and creating unsafe situations anyway"

Ronnatalie, this is actually what my objection is. I immediately started asking about trouble lights and clamp lamps.

That's not "bent on breaking the law." Please read the entirety of people's responses in the future.

If you take a lamp that is designed to be plugged in and connect it to an appropriate extension cord that is plugged into an outlet and do not leave it permanently connected, you are fine.

If you start slicing extension cords into fixtures designed to be hard wired or doing anything that would make this a permanent installation (eg nailing wires in place), then you start running afoul of electrical codes.

Personally, if it was my place I would pay to install proper lighting with a switch by the door. It's cheaper than an emergency room visit when you stumble over some junk in your dimly lit storage room.

Well, it won't be dimly lit if I put a clamp lamp up there!

And it is useful to have learned that using a nail-in cord clip would run afoul of electrical codes.

Oh, and re: installing conduit & a switch:

If this were a single-family home, I'd have done that a while ago. But to install that in the apartment building, and to meet code, we'd probably have to install a totally new circuit or three, etc. It would be a lot more complicated, electrically, to stick within code with installed, permanent wiring.

And there are 4 or 5 closets that are in the same area, which would make it tougher. (the others are farther away, and they use a different outlet, or they can rely on the overhead light in the hall bcs they're a different shape)

However, nobody uses their storage closets at the same time, or for very long (generally--maybe half a day if we're doing a big clean-out). So if we each plug in a light, for a short term, that single receptacle is enough.

I just need to have a safe short-term light, that's all.

Oh, and yes, you're right, there are other, non-electrical dangers/vulnerabilities to consider. That's why it's good to know that I can't anchor that cord out of the way w/ the nail-in clips.

Because it would *never* have occurred to me that they were dangerous.
(the ceramic socket fixture, that did occur to me, and it't why I came here)

The right answer here is to have a pro install a proper permanent fixture in the storage closet. The switch can be on the wall right outside or just inside. Much more convenient!

You might even be able to get a permit to do the wiring yourself, since as you say, you OWN this apartment. It would depend on your city's policies.

As for the old setup, it's correct that the NEC prohibits using portable cord for permanent wiring, but this is plugged in. NEC's jurisdiction generally ends at the receptacle. However, other entities may have something to say about it - the fire marshall for example, or your insurance agent.

Others may disagree, but as I see it, if you're set on using a temporary lamp in this room, there may be some merit to supporting the cord. It might indeed be safer to secure it to a surface where it's visible and protected, rather than stepping on it, slamming the door on it, and so on.

When I lived in an apartment in my younger days, I wanted a light over the sink, but the landlord wouldn't pay to have one installed. I certainly wasn't going to do it myself, so I bought a portable pin-up light at the hardware store and connected it to one of the countertop receptacles. I tacked the cord in place with insulated bell wire staples:

I took that light with me when I moved out.

Stapling light duty portable cord is hardly a substitute for a properly installed permanent light, but it may improve the safety of a temporary installation.

Jeez, it is too bad that the oafs that designed the facility did not install proper lighting. If done at the time of construction or renovation, it probably would have cost all of fity bucks :-(

I am glad that you asked about the ceramic fixture. Some sparks at the connection could cause a fire and that could, in turn, send you to jail.

A clip-on light is the way to go, simple and cheap even if you have to install something to clip it to. (I am thinking a stout drawer-pull of a good shape would do for a mount if you need one.) Think about putting some stick-on velcro on the cord and on the wall to keep that organized. If some inspector calls that permanent, stomp on their feet and spit at em.

Well, they built the building in 1923, and I don't know when they put the bins in; but that era wasn't known for its generous approach to the location of electrical outlets.

Thanks for the note about the drawer pull in case I need something in a different position than the beams I've got to work with.

I'll have to figure out what I can use to keep the cord out of the way; I once tried a stick-on cord clip, but it got pulled off the wall. I might see if I can put a cup hook or three up on the wall, and then drape the cord through them while it's in operation--and than back out when it's done.

I'm sort of bummed that I don't have a good project at hand to teach my son about changing plugs, or rewiring lamps, or replacing outlets, though.

Not doing something dangerous or illegal is a good lesson to teach your son as well.

Sigh.

Bill--did you miss it? It was never my intent to do something dangerous or illegal. That's why I came here.

Sigh. You clearly don't know enough about electrical work to know if something is legal or dangerous, so the thought of you passing on that lack of knowledge is a bit scary.

The #1 thing you need to know is that it is illegal for you to do electrical work in your apartment building. It doesn't matter what your intentions are. If you are not an electrician, it is illegal for you to do work on an apartment building even if you are the owner.

It was never, ever my intention to do electrical work on my apartment building. I ****INQUIRED**** about a lamp/freestanding fixture. And discovered that the fitting I had *inherited* was not actually an appropriate fitting for the use it had been put to.

And switched to pondering trouble lights and clamp lamps.

The *reason* I don't have a project I can use to teach my son anything is *BECAUSE* I won't do something illegal or unsafe.

Seriously, I'm insulted now.

I feel like you are deliberately misunderstanding me.

Break out the popcorn. This is even better than the "dryer plug vs. transfer switch" thread.

Sheesh, guys, give her a break. She's TRYING to do the right thing. This is really over the top.

Oh, and to ionized:

Thanks for the suggestion of the stick-on Velcro. I'll put that on my list of things to try.

And thank you for the polite way you reinforced the advice about not using the ceramic socket fixture I inherited.

sue you said you always turn off the bulb when you leave. First post.

you may want to get the entire building to adopt a change and address this.

If one person turns on the unsafe light in their "basement storage bin" and then walks away (with good intentions to come back right away) but doesn't come back, they leave an incandescent light on, in an enclosed area, and this guarantees a fire will occur. It's just a matter of (date) time; it will occur but when is the unknown. It may not cause fire with flames the first time it happens, but I repeat that it's just a matter of time before a fire occurs. If your life saving depended on the insurance company making a reasonable financial gain in return for risking payouts when catastrophes happen, you would be very vigilant in "ensuring" that they only take on reasonable risks. If you were the insurance company, would you agree to pay to rebuild the building after a fire, knowing that a fire will occur one day?

Someone will walk away from a lit bulb and forget to go back and turn it off. An important call on their cell phone. Going upstairs to fetch something and then deciding not to put it in basement storage after all. E.g. Everyone has had a short term memory problem at some point in their life. Imagine ALL the people. They will leave and intend to come back. Then, once upstairs, they will forget. Duh.

Even if you all put compact fluorescent bulbs, nothing has changed, in insurance terms. If you were the insurer, would you agree that the risk is now reasonable, with CFL bulbs?

I sympathize with you in your assessment of the forum attitude here.

Your first few posts confused both issues, one being your probing for solutions and the other being your learning process. That said, I agree there is no need for forum participants to judge your intentions as evil sneaky or underhanded before you have firmly established them in one camp or the other.

Hth

Here is a link that might be useful: Enough is enough; comment on treating newbies

"If your life saving depended"

I meant to write

"If your life savings depended"

I meant your financial assets. Savings.

you may want to get the entire building to adopt a change and address this.

I agree with you completely on that issue, which is actually why I have liked the current setup in our bin--we are greatly motivated to unplug it. I don't want something that operates with a switch. Extension cords make me & DH antsy, and we won't go upstairs and leave them plugged in.

In fact, right now we have to unplug it in order to close and lock the door, which is why I haven't yet just used cord slips to anchor the cord to the wall. And why I may never do that (but I have tried stick-on temporary cord clips, but putting the cord in and out each time we were down there was too much for them, and they were pulled or fell off the wall).

I might try the Velcro idea, because it would be so fast to stick the cord up when we're working, and pull it back down when we're done.

But you've also got me thinking that maybe I'll bring this issue up to the rest of the building, and ask them to show me their lighting setup for their storage closets/bins. (I'm the director in charge of electrical, which means I would have the authority to address this without seeming like a nosy person. And it explains why I am crabby at having people assume I am so stupid that I'd modify the actual wiring. With lamp cord, no less!!)

And I can check to be sure that the other lighting setups are safe.

Because at the receptacle the other day, I spotted someone's cord still plugged in. Nobody's bin was open, and nobody's light was on. So I unplugged it.

That also gives me an opening to bring this issue up.

Just a note on the big picture of living in old buildings from someone in a 100 year old house:

There are going to be lots of things that fly in the face of current construction techniques and safety standards. The general policy of dealing with those is called grandfathering. Basically, if things aren't an immediate safety hazard, they are allowed to stay and be used through their normal lifespan. Once they break down, you are supposed to replace them and correct any issues that don't meet current safety or building codes.

In this case, the course of action is clear. Safety concerns and common sense dictate that a storage room should have a light. Since the old lighting system has broken down, it is time to put a new, proper one in. It might cost a couple hundred bucks to do it properly, but I rarely run into people who are upset they fixed a problem right the first time.

1 clamp lamp: $6.87, purchased at Home Depot this morning.

I have an extension cord I can use, since I only need an ordinary one.

I'll figure out how to keep it out of the way.

Thanks for the help.

Once they break down, you are supposed to replace them and correct any issues that don't meet current safety or building codes.

In this case, the course of action is clear. Safety concerns and common sense dictate that a storage room should have a light. Since the old lighting system has broken down,

Oh, Bill--I didn't see this, sorry!

The thing is, there isn't any "old lighting system" of any kind in the bin. The thing I took out was not ever part of the building's wiring--it was an improperly kludged "plug-in wall sconce."

(and if I'd taken it down before coming here, I'd have known not to simply redo it--once I saw the underside of that socket, I realized that it was not constructed the way I thought, and the connection point for the wire (in this case a lamp cord) wasn't enclosed. I had thought it was. )

Given her name-implied "captivity" in the over-taxed, over-regulated Peoples' Republik of NYC, I'm curious as to how many fees, permits, and bribes it would take to have a licensed sparky come in and do the 30-60 minutes of labor required for a NEC-compliant install, replete with caged bulb safety fixture, and motion-activated, auto-shutoff wall switch?

Anyway, it's obviously a common good for all in the bldg, not to mention neighboring structures in "flame leap range"... time to pass the hat, and get it done--correctly. I'm sure Algore and Tipper would be glad to chip in... if you promise to use CFLs, lol... ;')

Who are Algore and Tipper and what do they have to do with building and construction regulations and codes?

The moderators may choose to delete that post from fixizin; it contravenes the Friendly Agreement because it is sarcastic to a person. Furthermore, there is no part of it that addresses the thread topic serisously, so the entire post can disappear, instead of being modified.

Also, moderators may choose to delete my post, which only comments on another's post behavior.

ionized-
It's just a post from someone injecting conservative, anti-environmental politics into an electrical forum thread...

Well that post does make the electrical point that installing a permanent set-up would be safer.
(I'm not sure I completely buy that--at least not in my situation. Or, the risk is low enough, I believe, compared with the trouble I'd have to go to to get permission, worry about whether there's enough power to that end of the building, etc. There's the co-op board to deal with, and frankly, for 20 minutes of light every week or two, the clamp lamp is just easier--and not much riskier than a table lamp--less, perhaps, because I don't leave it plugged in.)

And there's the electrical question of permits, etc. And I thought that, as a NYCer, I'd address that:
There are surprisingly few needs for permits in NYC.

When I remodeled my kitchen, I needed to move the circuit-breaker box. And run several new dedicated circuits for the appliances. I was not required to have a permit, nor did I need an inspection.

I called the building office 3 times because I didn't believe it. Every one of the people there said, "Oh, no, it's inside your apartment, you don't need to have a permit or inspection." My *building* requires me to use a licensed electrician. That's it.

We installed a cut-off switch in the elevator room. All we needed was a licensed electrician. We could have asked to have it inspected, but we weren't required to, and we didn't need a permit.

But yeah, otherwise it's an annoying interjection of politics.

Ah, I see. It is either a conservative manipulator of the poor who steals their money, or one poor lick-spittles that believe their lies and vote for them.