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Euro cooktop wiring question

Posted by plllog (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 23, 10 at 0:01

I bought a Gaggenau euro model induction cooktop of a size not available in the U.S. because the Gagg serviceman said it would be fine. He talked to my contractor and the electrician, who wired it the way he was told. Now we can't get hold of the Gaggenau man, and the cooktop turns on correctly but flashes an error code that "power voltage is too low". The electrician says that there's a proper amount in the line (sorry for the girlie lingo, but I don't know the right words).

I was hoping that someone here might have more experience with this kind of wiring and have a clue for us where the problem might be.

Thanks!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

Something's not wired right (or you've got 208 power for some odd reason).


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

I suspect that only way someone here is going to be able to make any real contribution is if you can post the electrical part of the installation instructions or direct us to a site that has them.


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

Ronnatalie, it's 240 on a brand new panel.

Ionized, thanks. It doesn't mean much to me, but I'm a GW dweller, and the electrician just isn't.

PhotobucketPhotobucket


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

Ok. So how was it connected in the wall?

I bet the electrician did it like #2. He had a L1(+120), L2(-120), Neutral and a Ground and hooked it up. Unfortunately, the unit requires the L's to be at 220v. Hence, he should have used #1, tying the High and Low to L1+L2 and N respectively, and ground to ground

I would leave it to others to say what to do with the Neutral (like tie it off).


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

It sounds like the installer hooked the stove up as a 120 V load.

European power is 240 V from a hot to neutral.

US power is 120 V from a hot to neutral.

To get 240 V in the US we use two hots on opposite legs (calling them +120 and -120 does not mean anything since they reverse 120 times a second).

The stove will work just fine on US 240 V if hooked up correctly.
There will be NO connection to the neutral.
The stove needs leg1, leg2, and ground.
It is a straight 240 V load and does not use a neutral in the US system.


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

If the cooktop comes hard wired:

Essentially, one phase of 115 volt power is carried on the black wire or wires from the first half of the circuit breaker and connects to L1 (brown) and L2 (black) tied together and the opposite phase of 115v power is carried on the red wire or wires from the matching half of the circuit breaker and connects to N1 (blue) and N2 (white) tied together. A measurement using a dvm or vom (meter) on AC should read around 230v between L1, N1, and L2,N2 if it is correct. If the voltage is correct the problem may be internal.


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Clarification

Perhaps the above last line would be better written "230v between L1 and N1. 230v between L2 and N2". If the correct voltage is present in both places, the problem may be internal.


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

Thank-you all of you for the responses. The cooktop is hard wired, and while I don't know enough about wiring to say exactly how it did go in, I'm sure he knew it was supposed to be connected at 240V. It's much more likely that something is hooked up wrong or the unit is damaged in some way.

I'll convey your explanations to the electrician and see if he can make it work.

Thanks so much!!


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

plllog, just re-read everything 10 or 20 times and you'll get it. Remember this each time: in the US electrical system, to adapt this UK hob, one deliberately connects the "N" to a voltage.

-- Your saying it's hard wired doesn't add anything. It was "wired" by connecting wires to wires... and doing that is neither hard nor soft.

The three diagrams above all apply to UK situations that are not relevant when you have US voltages available. They therefore get "reduced" to the single case available in the US; connecting what the UK calls "L" and "N" to the voltages.

((By the way, they would not be called "L" and "N" in a diagram made for US-based electricians, and this may be the source of the mis-wiring, as it is misleading __ until one realizes that it means "L" and "N" in a UK voltage situation....)) . ((((Having said that, if you re-label them on the diagram, in pencil, you will have made it clearer to your guy that these are the opposite poles of a 240V circuit. duh)))).

The fact that the diagram says 50Hz / 60Hz is the big new information that is significant and useful to you: it means it will work in the US. It also says "220V 240V" which means that normal variations in voltage are nothing to be concerned about either.

I happen to have a European hob that says 50Hz and this is what scares a lot of people away from it ... But it works here anyway! Only if it is labeled as 60 Hz will the average consumer feel reassured though.

plllog it certainly is true that "I'm sure he knew it was supposed to be connected at 240V. " but as I said earlier, he most likely read the "L" and "N" as what he knows normally, usually, averagely, commonly, typically, everyday, etc. And he may have been trying to be cautious and not put too much voltage anywhere...

plllog you also said " It's much more likely that something is hooked up wrong..." and this is correct too. Tell him he's got to put 240 Volts across
"L" and "N" and he will then go ahead and hook it up to make it work.

If you refer to "N" by any other name it will sound sweeter to his ears. To him, "N" takes a zero voltage.

plllog my saying all this is based not on my seeing your circuit but just on a bit of thinking. Everything has to be seen first. So proceed with normal double-checking caution as all electricians do.

Just remember that the voltage gets applied to the two poles, currently known as "L" and "N" .

"a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
"a wire by any other name would smell as sweet."
"a wire by any other name would sense." so don't call it "N"

When you show a diagram to someone the first time, he may have a hard time interpreting it right. We on the other hand, have had more time. We aren't in the kitchen with the pressure of having to connect something on the spot. It was a normal confusion. There's a first time for everything. Be gentle as you always are.

hth


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

"-- Your saying it's hard wired doesn't add anything. It was "wired" by connecting wires to wires... and doing that is neither hard nor soft."

Hard wired is a shorthand description of the device wired directly to a junction box without a receptacle and plug.

It does not make any real difference in operation if wired correctly, but does introduce another set of connections (for the receptacle hook up) for a mistake to be made.

Some devices are not actually listed to be hard wired since the plug and receptacle act as the final disconnect for the device.


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

Yes, thank-you both. I've passed on the previous comments and will add Davidro's. I had thought (might have misunderstood) that someone uptopic had asked if it was plugged into an ordinary socket, so I was responding to that with the hardwired comment. I think most of my appliances are 240V and wired directly, and I know the induction is.

After reading through Davidro's message I'm thinking maybe the Gaggenau man may have given directions for German wiring, and this is a UK unit. (I got the one that didn't have a restricted sales territory.)

I really appreciate the explanations and all of your patience with me. I do understand your explanations as written, just don't know enough about wiring to know exactly how it relates to the real world. But I'm confident I can communicate with all the people working on this (all of whom speak different languages, but speak to each other in English).


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

the fact that the unit produced an error code indicating low voltage would tell me that the unit is ok, just underpowered.

Your electrician needs to confirm that the Brown and Black are connected to one hot, the Blue and White are connected to the other hot, both Yellow/Greens are connected to ground and that the supplied neutral is not used.


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

Mrrh.

I'm going to bet that, if the unit was wired as 120, it would not "work correctly" - it would take _forever_ to heat, as it would only be receiving 1/4 (yes, 1/4, the current is halved also) of its intended power.

Therefore, MY mind is summarily rejecting the whole "your electrician wired it as 120" idea.


My bet? OP's "240" is two legs of 120Y208.

Proposed solution: boost transformer... or just ignoring the error code.


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

pllog...when you say the thing turns on correctly do you mean that the elements heat up, or just that the display comes on and starts flashing the code?


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

pllog please post a picture so people can see if "the Brown and Black are connected to one hot, the Blue and White are connected to the other hot, both Yellow/Greens are connected to ground and that the supplied neutral is not used." More eyes.


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

Thanks everyone!

By "turns on correctly" I meant the display comes on, and displays the various operational things, but after showing the power level selected it flashes the code that there isn't enough voltage.

Meanwhile, after sharing all your responses with the electrician, he seems to think he knows what's wrong and will come soon to redo it. (Others are working in there now.)

Davidro, if it doesn't work I'll see if I can take the picture you asked for.

I knew this was the place to come! There are a lot of theories in the world, but there's nothing like asking people who've actually done it!

I'll let y'all know what happens. It'll probably be the beginning of next week.


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

SUCCESS!!!

Thank-you!!!

The cooktop now works right.

I so appreciate all your time and input.


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

email Gaggenau telling them how it got wired, and ask them if you need to know anything more. ((We haven't seen all the documentation, so there might be something else to know, about for instance, grounding or neutral wires, or , .))


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

OP, glad you have it going.

pharkus, keep in mind that this is not a resistance-based heater. If the voltage is low, chances are that it won't work at 1/4 power for very long. Instead, it will go up in smoke!


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RE: Euro cooktop wiring question

possibly, ionized, but that would only further point out what I was trying to say.

My interpretation of "works correctly" turned out to be wrong, but had it not, it most definitely would not have "worked correctly" if it was only getting 120. There would have been much more significant problems than an annoying error message. :)


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