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joe_camel

Electricians help...my electrical plan. Long and complicated.

Joe_Camel
13 years ago

I know it's long, but I'm anal about details, and you can never be too safe with electricity.

I am wiring up my external garage for use as a personal auto-shop. Please review my plans and tell me what you think. I do not have a copy of the NEC yet, the Florida Code laws I recently purchased did not include it as expected. I have talked to an electrician at Lowes and reviewed a couple of electrical books that I have. I am attempting to use the correct terminology so feel free to correct me if I am referring to something incorrectly.

My current house breaker is a 150 amp breaker. My external garage currently has one 20 amp (12 ga wire) branch which operates the overhead lights (8 4-bulb T-10 fluorescent light ballasts), 5 double-outlet boxes, and a 1/2 HP 115v, single phase roll-up garage door opener. (I will leave this branch in place, but it will be reduced to two double outlet boxes and the garage door opener. One fluorescent bulb will be plugged into one outlet for emergencies). All new wiring will be done for 20 amp circuits or greater. I want to be able to handle electric tools when plugged in, and be able to expand circuits in the future.

SWITCHES

My switch box will consist of 5 gangable boxes and 1 double-socket box (attached below with an EMT connection). The switch box which will be connected to a 4 11/16" X 2 1/8" J-box with 3/4" EMT. All switches are 20 amp switches. The J-box will be affixed to the wall, below the ceiling. 12/2 NM-B romex will feed the box from the different circuits. All switches will be end-line switches. The 3/4" EMT will contain individual 12 ga wires. (My fill capacity for this J-box is 18. I will be using 14 wires, with possible later expansion of a switch (2 wires). I was planning on using the EMT as the ground, with the ground wire from the feeding romex grounded to the J-box, as well as the the neutral bar in the sub-panel [correct me if this is wrong]).

OUTLETS

All my outlets will consist of double outlet boxes (4 outlets). The circuits in this branch consist of 12/2 romex. The romex is protected below the ceiling line to the box by 3/4" EMT. All EMT is capped with a plastic bushing to protext romex.

SUB PANEL

I will need 6 branches in the garage, 3 of which will need to supply 240 single phase power to major appliances (auto lift, AC, air compressor). I will run power from my main breaker to a sub-panel in the garage. This run will exit the main breaker box on a 75 amp (or 100 amp) breaker, exit the house in a 2 1/2" PVC conduit, which travels under the concrete sidewalk, and up the inside of the concrete block wall of the garage. It exits the concrete block and enters 2 1/4" EMT to the sub-panel. 110 to each busbar and a neutral to the neutral bar. (Is there a need for a ground wire? What size/type conductors should I use)? I am trying to decide whether to run the sub-panel off of a 75 amp breaker or a 100 amp breaker. I have measured each busbar in the main breaker box for max load on start up of all major appliances. I don't remember these numbers I'll have to get them when I get to work where they are written down. I am inclined to use a 75 amp breaker. 12/2 romex will run out of the sub-panel, protected by 2 1/4" EMT. The romex will be connected to various circuits in 1-2 4 11/16" J-boxes at the top of the 2 1/4" EMT above the sub-panel.

The 6 branches will consist of the following circuits (Table 1). (I need an explanation on 240 V circuits to include info about the conductors and breakers). The sub-panel is a GE wafer(?)-style (really thin breakers) 8 position breaker box [PowerMark Gold 125Amp 3 wire].

Table 1

_______________________________________________

Branch 1: Air Conditioning (240v, 30 amp breaker)

Branch 2: 8 4-bulb T10(?) fluorescent overhead lights, 2 double-outlet boxes, 2 circuits. Longest run is 45', 12/2 romex. (light ballasts are made with 16 ga wires).

Branch 3: Spot lights - 8 x 100 watt bulbs (2 bulbs per unit, 4 units). The spotlights are evenly distributed on two circuits. Longest run is 55' 12/2 romex, 20 amp breaker and switch.

Branch 4: Automotive lift (240, 30 amp, single phase). Have not purchased the wire/cable yet. Run will be 20' long.

Branch 5: Air compressor (240, 30 amp, single phase [21 amp peak power]). Have not purchased wire/cable yet. Run will be 23' long.

Branch 6: 6 20-amp double-outlet boxes, one circuit. 12/2 romex. Cables will combine in a 4 11/16" J-box above sub-panel. Power will run 6', from sub to J-box, on 12 ga wire, inside 3/4" EMT.

---------------------------------------------------------

A future branch will consist of an exhaust fan to vent automotive exhaust.

Comments (7)

  • Joe_Camel
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    clarification:
    external garage = detached garage.

    I made a typing mistake above. Grounding on the neutral should read grounding on the ground in the sub-panel.

  • joed
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You need to run a separte ground wire to the sub panel.
    The neutral needs to be isolated from the ground.
    You need ground rods at the sub panel.

    It is not requirued, but I would run a green wire for ground in the conduit within the garage. You only need one per conduit sized to the largest circuit. All the other circuits can share the one ground.

  • Ron Natalie
    13 years ago

    JoeD is correct. Your garage needs a grounding system (typically rods). If you run any other metallic circuits the ground wire with the feeders is required (any phone, cable TV, networking, etc...). Even if not strictly required, it's a very good idea. Florida seems stuck on the 2005 NEC right now, but the later versions of the code no longer allow you to skip it either.

  • Joe_Camel
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    by the way. I am using all metal boxes (switch boxes, outlets, Junction boxes)...they cost more. Is it permissable to use plastic boxes for the junction boxes and metal for the switches. My reasoning for using metal was for anything below the ceiling that could be damaged by flying car parts.

    In my experience working on cars, there is not telling what will get smashed, caught on fire, or bumped hard. One time I had a spring compressor fail and launched a coil spring at high speed into the wall. Fortunately no one was in the path of the spring. (I have sinced developed a technique better than the tool).

    Keep the constructive comments coming.

  • kurto
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Assuming that there are no local code modifications, you may use either plastic or metal junction boxes at your discretion. Neither will provide much protection against high-speed flying coil springs. Remember that if you use metal boxes, the ground wires need to be connected to the box using a grounding screw.

    For the 240V/30A circuit, you'll need 10g wire. If using NM-B, purchase 10/2, and tape/paint black the ends of the white wire to mark them as current-carrying. (To avoid the re-marking, they make red/black 10/2. Purchase this at an electrical supply house, since you probably won't find at a big box store.)

    None of the distances listed will cause a problem with voltage drops. However, you didn't list the distance between your main panel and the subpanel.

    In my mind, you'll need at least 100A service to this subpanel. The reason is that it sounds fairly likely that the AC, the lift and the compressor will need to run at the same time. It might be possible to get away with 75A, but you're probably heading for a lot of nuisance trips. Not only will that require a visit to the main panel in the house, but you'll be left in the dark while removing that coil spring.

  • Joe_Camel
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "In my mind, you'll need at least 100A service to this subpanel. The reason is that it sounds fairly likely that the AC, the lift and the compressor will need to run at the same time. It might be possible to get away with 75A, but you're probably heading for a lot of nuisance trips. Not only will that require a visit to the main panel in the house, but you'll be left in the dark while removing that coil spring."
    That was my exact thought. It would be approximately 20' of cable to run out of the house, down the conduit, under the concrete breezeway, and back up inside of the cinderblock wall, where it will exit below the sub panel.

    Another issue I have, is where and how to put the grounding rods. Everything is concrete. The closest non-concrete area is 20' across the garage on the far side of the building. I guess I have to drill holes in the sidewalk/breezeway concrete and drop the spikes down. Not sure how to sink them though. Maybe a sledge on a ladder, or a picket pounder if I can find one.

    I'm trying to get a copy of the NEC from the library. Is there an easy "how-to" on doing a load calculation for the main box. Someone on another site suggested it. I did a google search and found an automated one.

    Also, my gang boxes have 1/2" punchouts. All my conduit is 3/4". I tried to get the gangable boxes with 3/4" punch outs and the depot doesn't carry them. Can I grind out one of the 1/2" punchouts to 3/4" or is there some code restriction on this.

    Last question is kind of stupid, but again, I appreciate the help.

  • stlrocker
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    if you need to drive a ground rod, an attachment is made for hammer drills that goes over the end of a ground rod and drives it in with the drill set to hammer only. i dont know what this costs.

    another way is to drill your hole and fill with water and work the rod up and down. push down fast and hard and pull up slightly and repeat. the rod will go down surprisingly easy. when there is about two feet left, you can drive it with a sledge.

    as for the boxes, you can drill out the knockouts. no problem with code. a uni-bit works well. if you dont have one, or dont think you have any other use for one in the future, it may be more cost effective to return the boxes you have and get the 3/4" ones from an electrical supply.