Return to the Electrical Wiring Forum
| Post a Follow-Up
electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
Posted by
jaansu (
My Page) on
Sat, Jan 22, 11 at 18:47
| I just noticed that the electrician that did the wiring for our kitchen remodel put 20A GFI breakers on two circuits that have 12 gauge wire. I'm 90% sure these circuits were on 15A breakers before. My question is if these were mistakedly 20A breakers before he replaced them, would he notice at the breaker box when he was putting in the new breakers? If not, he could claim that he was replacing like with like and it was not his fault.
For the remodel, he replaced some full breakers with halfbreakers since there were more circuits. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| The code requires at least 2 20amp dedicated circuits to serve the kitchen counter receptacles. Sounds like he was just doing his job. |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| Twelve gauge wire can handle a 20 amp breaker...or anything less, like 15 amps. You are fortunate that the 12 gauge was already in place as it allowed him to bring this to code without rewiring. |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| I made a mistake; it was 12 gauge I was hoping to see. There are two 20 amp breakers on circuits that consist of 14 gauge wiring for our bedrooms, not the kitchen. My fault for rushing it off. But the real question is: when putting on the breaker, is it obvious the gauge of the wiring it is protecting? |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| "when putting on the breaker, is it obvious the gauge of the wiring it is protecting?" At least at the connection to the breaker it is obvious. I never increase breaker rating to 20 amps without checking every box I can on the circuit to make sure #12 wire is used throughout. You can never tell when someone might have cut a corner and slipped a section of #14 into the wiring. If there is ANY #14 in the permanent wiring the entire circuit is limited to 15 amps. There are some exceptions to this rule, but never for general purpose circuits. |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| The difference between 12AWG and 14AWG wire is usually obvious to an experienced electrician or electrician's helper. It might not be obvious to a person who started the job two weeks ago. Regardless of the former breaker rating, "like with like" or not, a 15a breaker should have been installed. |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| Putting 20A CBs on AWG14 wires is a (theoretical) FIRE HAZARD. Put a stop on that check until corrected. The threat of notifying the AHJ should work wonders with such a blatant safety violation. ;') |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
WHAT blatant safety violation???
The OP said it it 12AWG.
Presumably, a licensed electrician would verify the entire circuit before increasing the size of the OCP device, but it wouldn't hurt to ask... |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| Yes but he does have 20A on 14g circuits which need to be corrected. They're just not the ones from the current work. |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| Sorry about the initial confusion. To recap, during the remodel, the electrician had to rearrange some of the breakers in the box and ended up putting a pair of split 20A breakers on circuits that are entirely composed of 14 gauge wiring. He was out today to see it, agreed with me and replaced with 15A breakers. Problem solved. I plan to check out all my other circuits just in case. It's amazing how many problems and shortcuts I have found in an expensive house. Two taped splices hanging in a wall. Nearly all outlets connected using the backstab holes. And now this. |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| Back stab holes are not illegal. Just not a good idea. For many people they are not any problem at all. It makes for speedier installs when time is money. |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| I agree, definitely a timesaver for builders like Toll Bros but I like quality better so I'm replacing all those 20 yr old outlets anyway and using the side terminals. Like all my other houses, eventually I hope to achieve quality systems in all places. |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| I wouldn't get worked up over a back stabbed outlet , especially on 14 ga wire. Using the side terminals MAY provide a more secure attachment IF done properly. Attached counter clockwise or over torqued and it might actually be worse. Cost of a home is not a good indication of quality ! $500k in Des Moines is a VERY nice house. $500k in Manhattan is a real dump and won't get you upgraded anything. If you want to be sure you get good / great infrastructure you have to SPECIFY the level work to be done AND the type of material used. Our projects require Spec Grade outlets at minimum unless noted and they wire from the back , the wires are not looped around a terminal. If you or your designer , architect , builder don't specify - the sparky is going to use a 49 cent duplex receptacle every time. |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
| But you do get worked up over threads that are over 2 years old? :) Why drag this up to the top? |
RE: electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
| | |
Halfway through reading all this I noticed the dates.
Glad I didn't reply. ;) |
Post a Follow-Up
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in.
If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the Electrical Wiring Forum
Instructions
- You must be a registered member and logged in to post messages on our forums.
- Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review the contents and make changes.
- After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
- It is illegal to post copyrighted material without the owner's consent.
- HTML codes are allowed in the message field only.
- No advertising is allowed in any of the forums.
- If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
- If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.
