Absolutely not.

First off, solder alone is NOT an approved method of splice. There MUST also be a mechanical splice.

Second, you DO NOT need or want to connect to the grounding electrode conductor. You MUST run four wires between the main and sub panels. The ground run with the feeder is the only ground you need/want.

Note: This is for panels in the same structure as the main. Sub-panels in detached structure do also need a grounding electrode (or two) of their own.

This post was edited by petey_racer on Thu, Jan 1, 15 at 17:52

Thank you for your input.

I asked this question because my QO entrance panel has the ground/neutral bus fully populated. The simple "solution" seems to be double tapping to free up a screw. For neutrals to neutrals or neutrals to grounds this is obvious suicide. But from researching the web since the grounds normally carry no current it is not uncommon to double tap them with the same ga. wire to free up a screw, but I am still uneasy about it. I live in a non code city and county so the AHJ reverts to the NEC.

Square D sells additional terminals and ground bars. Buy one and install it.

You are uneasy and fear virtual suicide for CODE COMPLIANT and listed procedures for your panel but you think that you're somehow safe when you want to do illegal connections to the grounding electrical system?

Just double up a few grounds. It's perfectly legal and perfectly safe.

ronnatalie, I know about the ground bars. I have bought and installed one for my detached bldg main lug panel because the previous owner had incorrectly bonded the neutral to ground. However, my 200A QO main breaker has no additional tappings for ground bars that I can find. Are additional ground bar tappings even provided for my main breaker panel and if so where are they hiding?

About your question, rhetorical or real, I do not think I'm "somehow safe" making illegal connections, IF I KNOW THEY'RE ILLEGAL. But is not one of the purposes of this forum to educate people on what are illegal connections so they DON'T make them? That is why I come here, to ask questions about if what I am considering is code compliant. Asking a "dumb" question won't burn my house or down or electrocute me but not asking it and making wrong assumptions might. That is the way I look at it.

Petey, Thanks, that's what I'll do.

You may also splice several grounding wires together with a pigtail to the bus. The tail to the bus must be at least the same size as the largest wire in the splice. You are only limited to the number of wires the wire nut is listed for.

joefixit2, Thanks, that's good to know. My question has been answered.

I can't see your panel, but every QO panel I've ever seen (main lug or main breaker) has a provision for an extra ground bar. There are three holes typically on either side of the back wall of the panel enclosure.

Of course, some idiot might have put a nail through those holes to mount the panel (the panel is designed however to be mounted through the four keyhole shaped holes in the back wall, or through one of the knockouts on the side.

I removed the cover to double check. The only back areas thickly covered by wires and questionable are between the ground bars and sides. I searched around them as best I could with a flashlight for the bumped in holes that would allow mounting screw back clearance but didn't see anything. The rest of the box interior is easy to see. There were a couple small holes here and there but they were punched flush, not bumped in.
This box is fairly new, installed in 1-12 if that matters. I did an internet search but came up dry. If you find the spot(s) where these holes are located in the 200A box please post it.
Thanks

The holes may or may not be "bumped in". Many times they are in a flat area.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:2137882}}

This post was edited by petey_racer on Sun, Jan 4, 15 at 13:28

They are typically flat these days. The 200A panel I was looking at looks like Peteys...there are three holes under where the bars are shown in his picture. You can attach the bar with either one or two screws (listed either way).

Okay, I think I found them. There is only one hole on each side, punched flush. About 1-3/8" below each hole is a shallow nub protruding from the back to (I assume) engage one of holes in the bar to keep it from rotating when screws are being torqued.

Thank you all for taking the time to assist me.
J.G.

this thread is why i quit coming to this website. ugh!

bullheimer, Good bye.

There are people on this board who are contractors. When they see people wanting to learn, these contractors will slam you every chance they get. Apparently they feel you are taking food out of their mouth. If you have an idea that doesn't match theirs they will attemp to belittle you. Too bad we can't put certain individuals on ignore. I just blow off their selfishness and move on. Fortunately, there are those who will help.

Thanks Tim