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abbey_cny

new ceiling fixture and 60 degree wiring

abbey_cny
12 years ago

I have asked about this before on this site and the consensus seems to be that, as the info enclosed with the light said, I need to have the wiring for my porch ceiling light (house built in 1950) changed out to accomodate this new light. However none of the 4 electricians I have contacted think the rewiring is necessary and pretty much refused to do it. They all took a sort of "this isn't necessary little lady" attitude. I have pretty much given up finding anyone to rewire it, and I am considering replacing it with a pendent type fixture. Am I correct in thinking that this type of fixture wouldn't be a problem because there would be no heat build up within the fixture next to the ceiling? Just making sure before I spend any more $$. Thanks for any help.

Abbey

Comments (9)

  • inox
    12 years ago

    You do not need to rewire the entire circuit. The problem is the heat produced by the bulb itself heating the wiring insulation, not the current in the wire. There is a workaround involving a junction box and 18 inches of new wire in the thread linked below.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Minimum 90 Degrees C Supply Conductors

  • abbey_cny
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks! I will show this to my regular electrician and insist he do this. Just for my clarification, as I like to understand what is being done, they will only have to replace the wiring just inside the junction box (or whatever you call that connection in the ceiling?) that the ceiling fixture is connected to?

    Abbey

  • inox
    12 years ago

    The idea is to replace wire going into and out of the ceiling box for a distance of 18 inches from the fixture, so that the wire exposed to the heat of the bulb is new wire with the 90 degree Celcius rating. For each wire now going into or out of the ceiling box, there needs to be a new junction box at least 18 inches away from the ceiling box, to allow new wire to be put between the ceiling box and the new junction box. That ensures that the heat from the bulb is reaching only new wire.

    From http://www.nema.org/stds/eng-bulletins/upload/Bull92.pdf

    When the dwelling's existing wiring is rated 60 degrees C, install a junction box approximately 18 inches away from the newly installed lighting fixture and then run Type NM-B from the junction box to the fixture.

  • abbey_cny
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks so much once again. I am rather appalled that none of the electricians I had out here were aware of this or at least concerned enough to listen to the homeowner. But considering that the first electrician I had out who installed the light removed the insulation on top of the light (I found it in the garbage) I suppose I should not be surprised. I will print this out and make sure the work is done properly this time.

    Abbey

  • brickeyee
    12 years ago

    "The idea is to replace wire going into and out of the ceiling box for a distance of 18 inches from the fixture...

    Note that 18 inches is NEMA advice and not NEC required.

  • kudzu9
    12 years ago

    abbey-

    1. Any licensed electrician should know about this alternative to rewiring. I just think they didn't want to do a small job.

    2. The electrician who removed the insulation on top of the light may have been doing the right thing if that was batt insulation in the attic (i.e., not part of the light). Some fixtures are not supposed to have insulation in close proximity to them as they overheat.

  • abbey_cny
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Additional info is appreciated. Thanks! Even though it is not NEC required it will put this homeowner's mind at ease so I will have it done. The electricians I contacted all normally do smaller jobs they just seemed to think they were saving me money by not doing what they thought was unnecessary work. The insulation that was removed was part of the fixture and not insulation in the attic. This is a porch light and there is no attic over the porch. He just removed it before he placed the light and I discovered it in my garbage. I did have it put back on the light. If need be I will insist that 18 inches of wire be replaced. I would hope I can find an elctrician who is willing to do the work even if he feels it is not necessary.

  • bus_driver
    12 years ago

    An electrician who removes insulation that is part of a light fixture is one who should never be permitted back on the premises. Removing the insulation is an extreme action that rises from either profound ignorance or profound fraud.

  • brickeyee
    12 years ago

    The insulation and any foil barrier are designed to try and reflect heat away form the junction box and increase thethermal resistance of that path so it wll not get as hot.

    Ther es no reason to remove the insulation arund junction boxes in ceilings blew.

    They are not light fixtures, ad if there is significant hea rtin them something is very wrong.

    Can lights (AKA 'pot lights, recessed lights, etc.) DO have insulation rules.

    Only can lights rated for insulation contact can be covered or touch insulation.
    It is the light fixture itself that is the issue, not branch circuit wring junction boxes.

    Small enclosed lights can generate enough heat to slowly toast the older 60 C insulation.
    It will become dry ad brittle, and can fall of conductors if the wire is moved or subject to vibration.

    You can either do the box ire change routine. or search out fixtures that do not re2qure 90C conductors.

    Many pendant (hanging) fixtures do not inject enough heat into the junction box and do not carry a 90C warning.

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