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noctua_gw

Puzzling 2 fan/light With 2 switches + other questions

Noctua
10 years ago

My main room has two entrances, code says both must have light switches. I am putting in two ceiling fan/light combo units.
I would prefer variable fan and light control on one side with on off switches for both on the other in single gang boxes.

I am having trouble finding switches that can do this.
Most can not handle 2 fans (low amps) or can handle the fans but are not "3-way"'s. The Lutron MA-LFQ looked promising until you see the amperage, something like that but stronger is just what i am after. I don't need remotes or the like.

Alternately i could go with variable fan in one location and lights from both to satisfy code. But the switches problem still exists.

I Call Lutron and they said their product lines do not have anything that can do both. Aslo said Wiring it could be tough.

Is there a reason this should not be done? Most of the people/places (5 or 6) i called said they never heard of anyone doing this before, i find that mind boggling that its not a more common request.

There is no issue with wall being in the way, i have none just now.

Other questions, less pressing.

I have read whole house suppression is good so i bought a Square D SDSB1175C. I was a little annoyed to find the installation manual is quite ambiguous about what size breaker to run it on. After reading online people said 20 or 30 amp beakers, so i threw it on a 30.

30 seems small to me I assumed 40 or 50. Why don't they say isn't this the type of thing that should be in a installation guide? should i change to a different breaker size? I thought i would want it higher so it could take more shock before tripping...once tripped its not much use and if i have not be to the cellar for i while i would not even know.

In the same vein is this device considered adequate home suppression? Are there better devices? The instructions said close to the main as possible... i look at it and think its no closer than the one opposite... maybe i should get a second for the other side (just the HEPD not the whole home), overkill?

Still on that unit. It shows in the picture on Home depot two coaxial suppressors but the unit only comes with one. I was looking at getting a second but list is $100. I have cable internet and satellite TV. I was thinking the Cable would need it more as the only issue with the satellite would be lightning.

In my kitchen i am putting a 4 way switch to the porch. and a 3 way to the kitchen as well as a 2 other switched item and continue out to two (high up single) plugs. Are there code restrictions on how many lives can enter one box? I the 4 way is powered from a 3 way in the basement. The 3 way is first in the line so need power as well as the other two. Can i run a 14/2 with pigtails to keep wire count down? Neutrals will be an issue won't they?

Adding a subpanel with a 100amp main. If I use a 100amp break from the main service what size cable, #2? I can opt for a smaller size from the main service because even if the 100 wont trip the smaller one would right? What size cable for 60amp?

Just a heads up, but it should be blindingly clear, i am a novice. I am trying, sometimes the simplest things are not easily found so sound boarding helps a lot.

I appreciate any help you have for me.

Thank you.

Sorry... Edit: One more. I have 3 heater set up in series. 12/2 wire 1200w 1200w 1000w. Code says i can max out the wire ampacity in a fixed load heating situation but need to retain the 15% over head at the breaker. No one local has 25amp breakers Dual pole or otherwise. Should i run this off a 20 amp till i can get a 25 or get a 30 amp and call it a day? 30 amp requires a new cable size i think...

Bonus question: While i was looking for breakers the Home Depot guy told me i can use off brand breakers in my box (Schneider breakers in a Siemens box or something...don't quite remember what the brand was). If the breakers physically fit and work properly is this code compliant? I was under the assumption breakers needed to be from the panel manufacturer.

This post was edited by Noctua on Thu, Jan 9, 14 at 3:29

Comments (3)

  • Ron Natalie
    10 years ago

    Only the light switch needs to be at both locations and frankly, unless you have some goofy local code or this is a stairway, there's no requirement for even light switches at both entrances to a room. Almost every fan I've seen can have the motor and the light controls split and you can put the latter on a three-way if you like.

    The reason the instructions don't tell you to put the surge suppressor on an oversized breaker is because there's no point in doing so and it is ILLEGAL. Do not use a large breaker than the ampacity of the wiring connecting it. Most of the ones I've seen you do not put on a larger than 20A breaker.

    Having lost phones and del modems and a well pump, I believe on putting surge/lighting protection on everything I can find. These suppressors are cheap "insurance".

    Yes, there is very MUCH a limit on the number of wires in a given box. It's called Box Fill and a bigger discussion than I can type into this box. Get a good electrical book (Wiring Simplified is one) or google box fill.

    You protect the feeder from the main panel to the sub panel with a breaker appropriate for the wire. It matters NOT what the rating of the sub panel is. #2 is appropriate for 100A breaker on copper type NM, You can protect #6 with a 60A breaker for type NM. Other wire types may have different ampacities.

    Your heaters are NOT in series. Again you need to size the breaker for the wire. You must protect 12-2 NM with a 20A breaker (or smaller). I'm assuming we're talking about 240 V heaters? If not you're math is way off. If you're using 240, the 20A breaker and 12-2 is fine.

    Most home center employees including this one is a complete idiot and dangerous. NO, YOU CAN NOT put breakers into a panel for which it is NOT listed for. Yes they may fit and may even work, but it is ILLEGAL. Do NOT do it.

    Schneider is commonly Square D by the way (just like Eaton is Cutler Hammer). A QO breaker won't even fit in your Siemens panel. The HOM breakers might fit, but again, are illegal to use.

  • Noctua
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for your response.

    3 waying the light and adding a 5 amp fan switch sounds like the right move for this situation...why can hardware guys never recomend the common practic and just scratch there heads and stare?

    Wire size sounds like just whst I was looking for for the surge box. I think its 12 gauge I will check swap the 30 for a 20. Still dont know why they dont just say so.

    Any reason to run 2 suppressors? I was thinking if the closest breaker slots were all covered it beter protection.

    I found box fill shortly after posting... I have 2 boxes I need to swap for larger ones :)

    So I could use a 60 with #6 for the feeder... or any other breaker 100 or less. Understanding of course that is the max amperage for the feeder.

    Heating... my book says 25amp breaker - #12 wire max load 4800 watts.
    After rechecking I have 1500 1500 and 1250.
    I am using a 30 for now but have a 25 coming off amazon...to be compliant with Canadian code.

    I thought that sounded like bad advice about breakers...glad I use my vommon sense there and did not buy.

    Thanks again

  • camcars
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I realize this is a few months late, but the code book states that a #12 wire nmd 90 is to be used with a 20 amp breaker,not 25 amp.You can only load the circuit to 80%, 20 amps X.8=16amps, therefore you can only load the heating circuit to a max of 3750 watts, not 4800 as stated.3750 divided by 240 volts is 15.62 amps. You can put a smaller breaker if you like, but not a bigger one.