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kitchen remodel....circuit layout

Posted by sprengle1 (My Page) on
Mon, Jan 26, 09 at 1:05

Forgive any ignorance I show, DH is the electrical expert in the family. But I am starting to think ahead for the electrical in our kitchen remodel and what the circuits will look like. We've already had final inspection for some of it (addition) and have discussed some of the rest.

Here's the plan so far

refrigerator- dedicated
microwave in cabinet- dedicated
dishwasher- dedicated
window air conditioner- dedicated?
garbage disposal- combined with 6 undercabinet flourescent fixtures (this was already approved by our electrical inspector)

2- 20A small appliance GFCI circuits
We will have 10 outlets in all. Reusing one GFCI breaker for some (already in original box) and the remainder GFCI outlet controlled. Only coffee maker and toaster oven will get used regularly and are on the same countertop/side of the room. Other appliances (toaster, mixer, can opener)just sporadically. Should they be on different circuits? How many duplex should go on the GFCI breaker?

lighting (5/6 recessed cans, over sink single bulb fixture, over table single bulb fixture, center ceiling 3-bulb fixture) combined with range hood? Can this be put on one circuit? Can the undercabinet be on there also?

If we did not combine disposal with undercabinet, would we be able to combine dishwasher with disposal as I have seen suggested on other threads? We don't have the disposal yet but dishwasher 'recommends' seperate circuit. It shows a total of 9.6 amps (if I read the miniscule print properly). The garbage disposal we are looking at is Waste King 1 HP and I can't find electrical info on that.

Sorry there are so many questions.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: kitchen remodel....circuit layout

20A breakers and 12 gauge wire, btw.


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RE: kitchen remodel....circuit layout

10 outlets???? WHY?

*Microwave does not need to be dedicated or the refrigerator. That should be on the same circuit as toaster and whatever else you plug in there. 3 single gang duplexs should be fine.
*Is window AC unit 120V or 240? 120V does not need to be dedicated, 240v you dont have a choice..
*GFCIS are only needed 6foot from sink or water source.
2 GFCIs will protect 6 outlets MAX (1 GFI will cover 3 duplexes) each so that covers 8 outlets including the 2 CFIS. You can power off the load side of the GFCI to a standard duplex receptical and its still GFCI protected...
* 2 circuits should be fine for the recepticals if 20amps 12 gauge wire 15 amps 14 guage wire (I would go with 20 amps also) because all of the stuff you plug into those will never be all running at the same time you are fine. Even if they did you still would be covered.
*5-6 cans easily on one 15 amp circuit.
*I would not put that dishwasher along with the disposal NOOO!!

Hope that helps you out.


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RE: kitchen remodel....circuit layout

electricman.... huh?

Sprengle1
M/W on its own circuit, OK
2- 20A small appliance GFCI circuits 12guage, OK
DW/Disp together, OK
I believe fridge can technically go on small appliance circuit but not recommended, if gfci trips you could lose fridge.
Cans and fan, OK


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RE: kitchen remodel....circuit layout

*The microwave and fridge can go on the same circuit.. Easily.
*He has lights already on the disposal circuit why would you and a dishwasher to it??
*1 GFI can protect up 2 three receptacles from line side..

Hey im a electrician. My home is wired just as I told him and has been for 15 years. Not one problem and have wired many others this way also. Tell me whats wrong with my method?


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RE: kitchen remodel....circuit layout

Electrican, you are truly scaring me.

If you are on the level then you REALLY need to pick up a code book.



"*Microwave does not need to be dedicated or the refrigerator. That should be on the same circuit as toaster and whatever else you plug in there."

Micro in a dedicated space does need a dedicated circuit. The refer no, but EVERY self respecting real electrician I have ever know always put a full sized refer on it's own circuit.

"*Is window AC unit 120V or 240? 120V does not need to be dedicated, 240v you dont have a choice."

No, a 120v A/C does not need to be dedicated, but it cannot be more than 50% of the circuit if it is shared with other general use receptacles.
A 240v must be dedicated? Can yo provide a code reference for this?

"*GFCIS are only needed 6foot from sink or water source."

Stuck in 1996 are we?
How about ALL receptacles serving counter areas require GFI protection.

" 2 GFCIs will protect 6 outlets MAX (1 GFI will cover 3 duplexes)"

Again, have a reference for this?
There is no limit to number of receptacles downstream of a GFI.

"* 2 circuits should be fine for the recepticals if 20amps 12 gauge wire 15 amps 14 guage wire (I would go with 20 amps also) because all of the stuff you plug into those will never be all running at the same time you are fine. Even if they did you still would be covered."

All kitchen receptacles for counter or general use must be on 20A circuits.


"*I would not put that dishwasher along with the disposal NOOO!!"

This is commonly done all the time on a 20A circuit. Nothing wrong with it.


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RE: kitchen remodel....circuit layout

GFCI protected outlets are required for all kitchen counter receptacles, whether or not they are within 6' of a sink.

They may be required to have 10 outlets due to the amount of countertop/islands etc...

The microwave is specified as being a built-in microwave and therefore would not be permitted to be installed on either of the (2) required small appliance circuits.


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RE: kitchen remodel....circuit layout

Thank you for all the advice! I'll try to clarify a few things.

Yes, we'd read the code that all countertop need to be GFCI. We have that many outlets because we have a run of
3' counter (1 outlet),
range,
5' counter (3 outlets because of structural studs/supports forcing placement of two of them far to the outside of the area), sink,
4 1/2' counter (2 outlets) and
3' around the corner (1 outlet)
all in one run!

On the opposite wall of the galley kitchen is a 6' run of countertop and there will be 3 countertop outlets there. The toaster oven will use one, the coffee maker another.

The microwave will be in a microwave cabinet and gets it own breaker. Fridge will get its own so as not to ruin any food if anything ever trips it. Gas range already has an outlet in place from previous kitchen. Actually, many of them are already in place from the previous kitchen and are separated into two circuits. I want to be sure that is good enough for that number of outlets!

I also intend to keep two general use, lower wall outlets in the room. What should they be wired with?

We'd read that 1 GFCI outlet can be wired to two more duplexes. But I'm not sure how many duplexes can be wired to a GFCI breaker that we are reusing. It really would be an extremely rare occurence to have all our small appliances running all at once. But the only strong draws are the micro and toaster ovens, and micro will have its own, so...

Where we've run into trouble is that my ex had the fridge, the microwave (countertop), the washer (basement) and the dishwasher all together! My husband is being extra cautious by keeping everything separate and I am trying not to let him overkill it!

I would only put the dishwasher with the disposal if I moved the undercabinet flourescents on with other lighting.

Since the center ceiling fixture is on a circuit with the other ceiling fixtures on this floor, I think we'll leave it there.

Can the cans, table fixture (right now has one compact flourescent in it rated to 150W), over sink and undercabinet flourescent all go together since the flourescents all use so much less wattage? Or should it just be the cans, over the sink and the table fixture?

Where should range hood fit in?

Again, thanks for all the input.


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counter-top GFCI

"All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in kitchens to serve the countertops shall be GFCI protected, 210.8(A)(6)."

"Electrical Wiring Residential" Ray C Mullin

That's where we got the info that it isn't just within range of the sink anymore.

And no, I don't want to put all 10 on the same breaker. Two breakers at least! Just want to know if I should do more.


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RE: kitchen remodel....circuit layout

Yes, you should add more. I typically stay at 3-4 receptacles maximum on a kitchen counter circuit.


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so many breakers, so little time

Thanks! I'm sure we'll add a third breaker for the outlets then. He plans a ton of breakers dedicated to the kitchen, as opposed to the 3 we had previously. It just seems like so many! I guess because I lived with so few for so long!

Range hood should go with what, do you think?


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Circuits

I put a standard hood on a lighting circuit. A big commercial job I'd dedicate.
If it is a nightmare running circuits I'd likely run a dedicated 20A just in case someone down the road wants an over-the-range micro.

The kitchen is the most heavily circuited room in the house. You can kill a whole sub-panel just for a kitchen.
I do that sometimes. A dedicated sub-panel just for kitchen circuits, if the run is very far from the main panel to the kitchen.


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RE: so many breakers

It sure feels like the whole subpanel is going to it! Good thing it's right below the kitchen!

Yep, it's a standard hood. But that's a good idea about wiring for OTR micro. Thanks again, petey racer!


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RE: kitchen remodel....circuit layout

You don't mention a conventional stove or cooktop. Are you using gas? In the interest of future upgrades, I'd seriously consider pulling in a range circuit even if you're not going to use it. Someday you might decide you'll want one of those slick glass induction cooktops or a dual-fuel (electric oven) gas range or such.

Most gas units these days need some amount of electricity to run the controls anyhow.


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RE: kitchen remodel....circuit layout

Other than cost (= $$ paid for materials and electrician's work), are there reasons not to have the dedicated circuits for microwave/fridge/etc as described? Or to have a subpanel dedicated to the kitchen circuits?

I'm planning a kitchen update to take our 1950's kitchen into this century, complete gut job. And the basement under the kitchen is across the house diagonally from the main panel. (Exposed basement, all accessible). After reading the above thread, I'm thinking that the most straightforward picture would be to run from the main to a subpanel under the kitchen, and then wire all the new kitchen circuits from the subpanel.

Other than cost, what would be the downsides?

Thanks in advance!


 
 

 

 


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