Bart, the primary difference in the grapes you mention is your wine grapes are pure vinafera and the table grapes are hybrid vinafera/american. There is some difference in table vs wine but the vinafera/hybrid difference is bigger. Most hybrid grapes are much more resistant to diseases but it does vary from variety to variety. I am a primarily organic grower and I found vinafera a huge pain which took up way too much of my time so I pulled out my wine grapes this spring. I now have primarily hybrids and just a couple vinafera table grapes. Usually by now I have had to do 4-5 sprays but this year I have done only one and the grapes still look fine (even the couple vinafera look fine - their neighbors are all un-diseased and that must help). So, a rough guide is half or fewer sprays are needed; save your tank leftovers for them. As far as pruning goes I used the same for all types but I am not in to all of the subtle stuff of grape pruning. Some table varieties are considered better pruned to canes and other pruned to spurs, but I always used spur pruning for all my grapes. Scott

It was just a different world then, Jerseytom. About a month and a half ago I had a most interesting conversation with a third generation grape farmer and vintner, whose new house I was working in the middle of a vineyard west of Lodi Ca (wine capital of the world?). Note that Lodi has shut down several municipal wells due to toxic levels of pesticide in the groundwater. I camp out in a trailer on my jobsites, many of which are commercial orchards and vineyards, so I see what's going on 24/5. Generally, cherries and grapes are sprayed with something at least once a week ( often only 2-4 days) from March through October. Sprays include pesticides, herbicides, mildewcides, growth hormones, bud-break stimulators, etc. Chemicals range from the benign (sulfur dust compounds) to extremely toxic miticides (Omite). Needless to say, I no longer buy much produce. Back to the conversation between carpenter and farmer. C- You sure waited long enough to harvest those grapes. F- Yeh, this is the last day the winery is open. Next year they won't even take them at all. C- What variety are they? F- Kerrigans. The winery uses them to blend. C- So are you going to rip them out? F- Nah, We're going to bottle them under our own label. Those vines have been there a hundred years. This was the third vineyard ever planted in Lodi. C- A hundred years! I didn't know grapes lived that long! F- Those grapes will never die, well they'll go for at least another hundred anyway. ( On walks through the ancient head trained vineyard, I had found no vines of lesser maturity and no blank spots in spacing- zero disease loss in 100 years). C- Hey, how do you water them anyway, there's no water system. F- They didn't even have irrigation around here, back then. The roots go down 30 feet! I watered 'em once just for the heck of it. C- I never saw you spray, don't you even sulphur them? F- Are you kidding me, nothing bothers those Kerrigans. Why do you think I built my house in the middle of this vineyard? I could be happy living here forever. C- So does the wine taste cr@#$%? They sure look really productive. F- The wine tastes fine. This is some of the most productive land I've got. C- Are you going to sell the wine as organic? F- Nah, too much trouble. We're gonna sell it as natural. A little internet research reveals that Kerrigan is really Cargane, currently the most widely grown variety in France. Yes, I've bought a bottle of decent wine at a small grocery in France for a buck and a half, and wondered, how do they do it? (everything else costs about triple). Try finding Cargane in any list of varieties anywhere- UC Davis , L. Rombough, internet, etc. Not seeing them being sprayed, I ate them for several months. Purple, mild flavor, seedy, tightly bunched. I can't quite recommend them for table grapes, but you get the idea. The US had a great wine industry based in New York made from v. labrusca grapes until consumers were convinced they had have the latest high maintainance variety. There are wild grapes growing virtually everywhere in the US that could be used to develop disease free table and wine grapes grown locally. Maybe the rise in demand for local and organic will spur that development. Until then v. labrusca grapes (Jupiter, Glenora, Steuben, Alwood, Reliance, etc) are a good place to start in temperate climates.

Nick! What a nice surprise! I was thinking about you the other day actually. How are you? I love that name, I love a lot of those names actually, think I might mesh them together. That would be wonderful, I'm definitely be setting aside time for us to come down, I must see your gardens next year! I think by then I'd know if my piece won anything at the contest I'm entering in for students.....so if I manage to get something it will be a double celebration! By the way, Nick, Leda and Duchesse are doing wonderful, last I saw of them ( when I was home) Leda was sending up a new cane that was itty bitty and just coming up when we planted it in August. Thank you all, you've been great help!

Would like to hear from local wine grape hobbyists. I have a small planting of mostly muscats and a few red wine types. If you like to grow your own wine grapes and have had success, please tell me what you are doing and which varieties make the best wine. So far, my best wine grape is the Landot 4511-- a good red wine type.