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Question about phosphate in wines
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Posted by TREKaren (My Page) on Wed, Jan 4, 06 at 13:41
| First let me say I am no wine expert. So I'm hoping this is not a dumb question.
I enjoy white wines, primarily Chardonnays, and Pinot Grigios. They suit my tastes very well. With certain meals I enjoy a good red, such as Merlot.
I have had reactions to just a glass or two of white wine, where I have a terrible headache the next day. I have heard that this could be related to phosphate content in wines, and that maybe I am sensitive to it.
I do not yet know if there is truth to that. Hoping someone here can educate me a bit. What exactly is the deal with phosphates and wines? If it is true, I do not know how to tell, when buying wines, which ones to choose. How do I select a good wine?
Thanks! |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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That's not a dumb question at all. I'm no expert either, and I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe ammonium phosphate is used fairly commonly in commercial wine production. I know its sometimes used in home winemaking to treat a stuck fermentation. I imagine its going to be pretty hard to tell if phosphate was used. If you have a particular vinyard you like, you might try contacting them and asking. It may not be the phosphate which is giving you the bad reaction. It could be sulfites, which are used to destroy bacteria and to stabilize wine. Headache is one common symptom of adverse reaction to sulfites. You might try an organic wine, but make sure that it specifies that sulfites were not used, not just made from organically grown grapes. Your wine merchant should be able to help you with that. |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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| Sulfites! Now that is very interesting. I am allergic to medicines containing Sulfa or anything in that family. So that could very well be it. So I either have to find a knowledgable merchant who would know which ones don't use sulfites, or I may have to give up wine. Do organic wines or any other wines usually list sulfites on the label? Are they common in all types of wines or is there a type that may not have any? Thanks for the response! |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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Many wines will say "Contains Sulfites" on the label, but many do not, so you shouldn't really trust any bottle of wine unless you are sure. Organic wines are most likely to list "No Sulfites". They are common in all types of wine. If merchants in your area sell wines and liquors exclusively, they should definitely be able to tell you, or find out for you, which wines are safe. You can also do an internet keyword search for "organic wines' or "non-sulfite wines" and request that your wine seller obtain them for you once you have determined which vinyards produce what you are looking for. Or order them yourself if your area allows interstate sales of wine. Finally, you could try making wine yourself without using sulfites. I'm sure someone here can tell you where to obtain grape juice or wine grapes which have not been treated. Or you can make wine out of almost anything, like fresh vegetables and fruits. Blackberry wine isn't really anything like a Merlot, but its very good. You can sterilize your equipment with a bleach solution or boiling water, and your must by boiling your water before adding it to the fruit. You cannot stabilize with chemicals, but that's not critical if you let your wine ferment out long enough before bottling anyway. |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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I thiught all beverages containing sulfites now had to have a warning? We make 40-50 gallons per year of different wines(apple, elderberry, grape, all kinds and styles) and have tried to make sulfite free with varying results. Now we just use it all of the time to prevent losing the product)s). I know there are sulfite free wines produced commercially and some home winemakers do not use them. You will just have to seek them out. |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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| Count me as a sulfite hater. While I can drink store bought wines the sulfites do have an affect. Never add campden to my homemade wines. : ) michael |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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| I am also allergic to sulfites but the amount in a glass of wine only makes my nose stuffy. A few glasses and I'm really stuffy for the next day, too. I have seen sulfite-free wine in better wine stores and in health food stores. Sorry, haven't tried any but when I do, I'll report back. |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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| First I would suggest if you want to try brewing wine is getting oraganic apple juice, pouring some into a sanitized separate container or drinking a little for foam space,and throwing bread yeast in there or if you can get some wine yeast,but bread yeast will tolarate the alcohol leval, and ferment it out dry(tsp. citric acid if you want)(sediment though, but you can syphon it off--- boil tubes to sanitize I do somtimes(no bleach on tubes hard to remove) .Searching on the internet would also be good like suggested before.--- you can also can your wine shop or liqour store,and ask them or ask them if they would order some wouldn't hurt to ask. It might be somthing else in the wine thats doing that if you drink store bought(non organic)orange juice it contains over twice as much sodium metabisufite I also read somthing else on the winemaker magazine web page that had somthing about sulfite,but I forgot, and I don't know if I can find the artical again Im not sure I found it in the story index.Their should be alot of Italian wines from what I read that are organic.My great uncle uses no sufites when he plans to brew wine I just don't know how to go about that. I also read in the home winemakers manual(site down)a online book that said Australans found out that all you need to preserve wine is 0.5 ppm sufites,and home wine brews usually use around 40-50 ppm, but again I don't want to have my wine get spoiled. |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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| I have been experimenting; it seems Chardonnay has the greatest effect on me. In fact, Toasted Head (with the bear on the label) immediately caused me sneezing fits. The Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot only some. And reds, Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon have no effect on me like the ones in the white family. For now, I will stick to reds and keep experimenting occasionally with whites. I will miss my Chardonnay though! |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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| Courtesy of the great World-Wide Web: "Any wine bottled after July 9, 1987, must have a label affixed that is a declaration of sulfites. Wine producers worldwide have been using sulfur for centuries, primarily to prevent spoilage from bacteria and oxidation and to improve color. The wine industry would readily accept an alternative that has the benefits of sulfur without the potential side effects, but no other compound has yet been found that provides all the beneficial effects of sulfur while being so relatively benign. According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, approximately 1% of the population has some sensitivity to sulfur compounds and sulfites and about 5% of asthma sufferers can have adverse sulfite reactions. Asthmatics who depend on corticosteroids are especially prone to sulfite sensitivity and can have severe reactions. The maximum amount of sulfites allowed in wine sold in the U.S.A., to legally avoid affixing a sulfite disclosure statement, is only 10 ppm. The maximum legal limit for sulfites in wine in most countries is about 335-350 parts per million. In practice, the average amount of sulfites in bottled wine is between 20 and 50 ppm. This is a much lower level than virtually all sulfur-containing processed foods, which may range from as little as 6 to 6,000 ppm. The maximum legal limit for sulfites in dried fruit, for example, is 2000 parts per million. Some sulfur is naturally occurring in the environment and in grapes, as well as in nearly all fruit and vegetables. Even without the addition of sulfur, yeast fermentation produces a natural sulfur level of between 15-20 ppm, so it is virtually impossible to avoid this labeling requirement. There are no wines that are sulfite-free." Trekaren, since it's not all types of wines that effect you, it may have been the sugar content of the wine you were drinking giving you that headache. |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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| gina, you are correct that the process of fermentation produces sulpher. All fermented beverages contain some. As for the requirement for labeling, I'm not sure every winery is in compliance with the law. Its true that excessive sugar could produce headache, but finished Merlot shouldn't have enough sugar left for that. I found an organic wine produced by a California winery called the Organic Wine Works in a local liquor store. I tried a bottle of their "Radical Red". The packaging on this said "No Added Sulphites". Everyone's taste is different, but I found it to be a decent wine. Its a light bodied dry red table wine with a good balance and a hint of sweetness. The bottle I bought cost $9.00. |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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| I can't post twice in a row even if I hit refresh, But anyways Right after I posted I thought of this, but during this post I went to a link on the winewizardmag.com web site, and I don't know if it will help, but first let me tell you of my experience I added WAY to much sufite at the beginning of fermentation it would not start so I got my moms mixer after I was sugested to do so and degased it out the yeast got unstuned, and started fermenting. So this is what I originaly thought of pour a in a big plastic glass get a mixer, and try to degas the sufites out(not long at all) when I did mine I got light headed But I added WAY WAY to much you should see boubles form thats the sufite getting disipated,but the wine wizard says there is no way to get rid of sufite(I disagree) except for using hydrogen peroxide,------ sounds strange, but here's a link--- If it does not work go to wine wizard mag. com, and than to the story index http://www.winemakermag.com/mrwizard/309.html Hope this helps---- I see on your profile one of your favorite sites is saving money Like I said If you go to the store and buy organic apple juice(or white grape concentrate,If you have a brew shop you sould check it out) and make cider It's so easy, but it's not Chardenay------ lower alcohol= less maturing time keep that in mind |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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| Badger Mountain is organic and has some that are no sulfites added. I think they have some that do not say that also. They are from Oregon or Washington. Also Frogs Leap are none added I think. The ones I have seen from them are pretty pricey so I haven't tried any. Badger Mountain reds are pretty good. |
RE: Question about phosphate in wines
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| Oh DARN. I just got back from a trip to Seattle. Wish I had seen this post while i was still out there! Thanks for all the great tips and suggestions! |
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