You need to break that down in paragraphs so we can read it.

Michael

Amen, Michael.

Hard to read in one big block like that, but do appreciate input from someone who has been installing windows for 30 years.

We are in the window market with a new build in Louisiana. Our builder recommended some unknown brand that we have not checked out yet.

We will be pricing out Pella and Anderson although according to others on this forum, Pella now manufactures its windows in China and quality is not what it used to be.
We had Pella, aluminum clad in our old house and were satisfied with them.

CHINA?! I believe 100% of their wood windows are made in Pella Iowa. The only windows made out of the state of Iowa might be their fiberglass and vinyl lines. Kentucky and maybe Arizona.
China. Never heard that one, but it'twas funny.

I would have loved to buy Pella windows from the Pella sales office but the sales rep did not call me back after 3 calls. It took 2 calls for him to come out to my house and take measurements but he never gave me an estimate after I tried to call him repeatedly.

IMHO, Pella is running on a reputation for a good quality product and hopefully, Pella can get it's act together before it's reputation for poor customer service kills it.

Karen

galefarm: Didn't you badmouth Andersen windows in a 11/20/07 post? If you work for Pella, admit it and add some value to this forum. The one thing I cannot stand is a shill. Pella gets bashed because it deserves to. It's customer service is next to non-existent. Pella has probably stayed in business for so long because, years ago, people did not have forums like this to exchange ideas and experiences they had with a company or it's product, all they had was the Better Business Bureau which is a joke. The internet and forums like this are now the worlds largest BBB and no company can escape it. They can pay people like you to post on the forums to try to do damage control for them, but most people on this forum are too intelligent to fall for it.

For my part, I take everyone's input with a grain of salt and I consider the source as well. If I see the same issues come up again and again though, there has to be some credibility to those reports. I also don't compare some fly-by-night company with a long-standing company like Anderson or Pella, obviously, being around for a while is going to garner you good and bad reports.

I just appreciate people sharing their experiences, good and bad, so that we can all learn from them and perhaps watch out for those same pitfalls as we go through our projects.

OK now its time to look at schuco windows. Following is a series of letters that show what i have gone through to try and get service. Please note that this is with a company schuco has hired to fix my windows. If you want me to i can show the letters i have where i talked directly to schuco. With both companys it seems that STALLING is the art practiced. Start at bottom and work up. Feel free to write and ask questions. I will talk on phone if you want.
Paul

Thank you for your help in resolving this issue.

To confirm, you have 7 Schuco sliding windows which we will be
replacing the weather stripping on, and in addition we will be replacing 1
transfer block on one window, and we will be adjusting the sash frame on
the 3-lite slider.

We have sent the parts to our tech, but since we were under the
impression it was only 5 sliders we want to make sure we have enough weather
stripping before we come out. We normally send extra, so we should have
enough, but we would like to clarify this beforehand. So if it would
not be too much trouble, can I ask you if you would measure the width
and height of all the windows and send this information to me as soon as
you can (the vinyl frame is what you will be measuring)? This does
not have to be exact, an approximation is fine. I just need to get an
idea of how much weather stripping we need and compare it with how much
was sent to the tech.

As soon as I get this information, I will make sure everything is being
handled quickly and will get your service expedited as soon as
possible.

Thank you,

Tina
J&R Window Repairs
. .
. -----Original Message-----
From: Deb Hancock [mailto:grdntender@fuse.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:35 AM
To: Tina (Tina@JRWR.com)
Subject: Re: Hancock 12972 update request

Tina,

There are 7 windows. The front room has one large window with 2
sliders. The dining room window has 2 sliding components. The bedroom
windows (4) only have 1 slider per window. The kitchen window only has
1 slider section.

Thanks again. Hope this information helps. Lets hope the weather
stays
warm.

Deb

Tina (Tina@JRWR.com) wrote:
> Deb,
> > We are not upset, just trying to make sure we have all the necessary
parts to complete your service in one visit.
> > We are under the impression that you have only 5 Schuco sliders in
your home. We are replacing the bulb seal in ALL the Schuco sliders in
your home. Are there more than 5 Schuco sliders? If so, please advise.
> > To answer your question, we will be working on all the Schudo slider
windows only. So whatever rooms they are in, this is where we will be
working.
> > Please advise how many Schuco sliders you have so we make sure we
have all the parts necessary.
> > Thank you,
> > Tina
> J&R Window Repairs
> >
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deb Hancock [mailto:grdntender@fuse.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:58 PM
> To: Tina (Tina@JRWR.com)
> Subject: Re: Hancock 12972 update
> >
> We only have 7 windows. I was not here for the initial evaluation.
I
> am sorry if I upset you when I asked which windows - but I really
have
> never been told. I know the front room and dining room windows are
the
> worse - they have the red rags packed in the gaps.
> > So, if you could answer my question - which windows in what rooms of
my
> home. I need to re-organize a few things and would like to get this
> accomplished before you arrive.
> > Please call and set up the appointment. I will need to schedule time
> off from work. I work 3-12 p.m.
> > Deborah Hancock
> > Tina (Tina@JRWR.com) wrote:
>
>> Deb,
>>
>> As for how many windows, we have stated several times to you that we
will be replacing bulb seals in 5 sliders and transfer blocks in 1
slider, and adjusting the center sash of the Living Room 3LS as needed.
>>
>> We are surprised that you are asking again, therefore, we are
wondering if you accept this as the labor to be done on this service?
>>
>> If you accept this labor description, we will be contacting you next
week to schedule a date.
>>
>> Please advise.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Tina
>> J&R Window Repairs
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Deb Hancock [mailto:grdntender@fuse.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:30 AM
>> To: Jim Strauch (JRS@JRWR.com)
>> Subject: Re: Hancock 12972 update
>>
>>
>> Thank you. I have been watching the weather, currently 29 degrees,
but
>> there seems to be a warming trend in the next week or so. Hope we
can
>> pick a reasonable day. How many windows will you be repairing?
Front
>> room and Dining room are the big windows and then we only have 4
bedroom
>> windows and 1 kitchen window.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Deb
>>
>> JRS@JRWR.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Deb,
>>>
>>> We will contact you next week to set up a date to come out ASAP and
perform the repairs listed below.
>>>
>>> As per your request, we will call you in the morning from 8-12 or
after 5:30pm, or send you an email.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Jim Strauch
>>> J&R Windows for Schuco
>>> 201-910-4878 cell
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Deb Hancock [mailto:grdntender@fuse.net]
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:20 PM
>>> To: Jim Strauch (JRS@JRWR.com); Paul Hancock
>>> Subject: Re: Hancock 12972 question
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply. Please call and set up the appointment. We
are
>>> trying to save energy (oil furnace) and have draft free home. I
would
>>> like to get rid of the red rags in the windows. I will need to
>>> coordinate my time off for the repair work. Best time to reach us
is in
>>> the morning from 8-12 and after 5:30 pm or email.
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jim Strauch (JRS@JRWR.com)
>>> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:58 PM
>>> To: 'grdntender@fuse.net'
>>> Cc: John Kasputis (JohnKasputis@Schuco-USA.com)
>>> Subject: Hancock 12972 question
>>>
>>>
>>> Deb,
>>>
>>> I received a message from your husband Paul on Wednesday asking for
an update on your service, and it reminded me that I wanted to contact
you to set up a date to return and replace the bulb seals in the 5
sliders and adjust the center sash frame of the living room 3-Lite-Slider
to stop the drafts.
>>>
>>> Knowing that we will need to remove the sashes from the frames for
approximately 30-minutes for each of the 5 windows, which will let a
lot of cold air in, I was wondering if you wanted to put your service on
hold until the spring when it warms up a little, or if you want to
schedule the next available date.
>>>
>>> Would you please hit reply and let me know if you want to proceed
immediately or wait until the spring?
>>>
>>> Please call me if you have any questions.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Jim Strauch
>>> J&R Windows for Schuco
>>> 201-910-4878 cell
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jim Strauch (JRS@JRWR.com)
>>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 11:33 PM
>>> To: 'grdntender@fuse.net'
>>> Cc: John Kasputis (JohnKasputis@Schuco-USA.com)
>>> Subject: Hancock 12972 update
>>>
>>>
>>> Deb,
>>>
>>> We received the parts on November 29th, but were unable to secure a
date before Christmas to come back to your house to replace the bulb
seals in the 5 sliders and adjust the center sash frame of the living
room 3-Lite-Slider to stop the drafts.
>>>
>>> I apologize that we were unable to do this for you before
Christmas, and I will contact you next week to set up a date that works for you.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Jim Strauch
>>> J&R Windows for Schuco
>>> 201-910-4878 cell
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Deb Hancock [mailto:grdntender@fuse.net]
>>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 10:41 AM
>>> To: Jim Strauch (JRS@JRWR.com); John Kasputis
>>> (JohnKasputis@Schuco-USA.com)
>>> Cc: adavis@ag.state.oh.us
>>> Subject: Repair of windows for Hancock
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jim,
>>>
>>> I am just reviewing the emails. Please give me an update on the
>>> replacement parts. Ohio is expecting snow Saturday. The red rags
do no
>>> stop the cold air.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Deb Hancock
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Kasputis (JohnKasputis@Schuco-USA.com)
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:50 PM
>>> To: Jim Strauch (JRS@JRWR.com); Farpoint57@yahoo.com
>>> Subject: RE: Hancock 12972 update
>>>
>>>
>>> The bulb seal was fed-exed out today to arrive tomorrow. We will
also add
>>> the transfer blocks.
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: JRS@JRWR.com [mailto:JRS@JRWR.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:56 AM
>>> To: Farpoint57@yahoo.com
>>> Cc: Kasputis, John
>>> Subject: Hancock 12972 update
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> As per our phone conversation of earlier this morning, I am waiting
for
>>> the replacement bulb seal and transfer blocks to arrive at our
location,
>>> at which point we will contact you to set a date to come back and
>>> replace the bulb seals in 5 sliders, replace the transfer blocks in
the
>>> bedroom slider, and adjust the frame of the living room
3-Lite-Slider as
>>> needed to stop the drafts.
>>>
>>> We will update you again when we receive the replacement parts.
>>>
>>> Would you please hit reply to confirm receipt of this email?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jim Strauch
>>> J&R Windows for Schuco
>>> 201-910-4878 cell
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jim Strauch (JRS@JRWR.com)
>>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 1:57 PM
>>> To: 'Farpoint57@yahoo.com'
>>> Cc: John Kasputis (JohnKasputis@Schuco-USA.com)
>>> Subject: Hancock 12972 update
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Deb and Paul,
>>>
>>> I just left you a voice message letting you know that I spoke with
John
>>> at Schuco this afternoon, and while discussing your service with
John we
>>> realized there was a repair option available now that was not
available
>>> when we inspected you house in March.
>>>
>>> Schuco has a replacement bulb seal that is mounted on both the
master
>>> frame and the sashes that is thicker than the original bulb seal.
This
>>> thicker bulb seal was developed to address high wind areas like
>>> ocean-front or hill-top applications, and if we replace your bulb
seal
>>> with this new replacement bulb seal, I feel we can greatly reduce
the
>>> air infiltration problem you are experiencing.
>>>
>>> Would you please call me at 201-910-4878 when you get this email so
we
>>> may discuss this further?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jim Strauch
>>> J&R Windows for Schuco
>>> 201-910-4878
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jim Strauch (JRS@JRWR.com)
>>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:18 AM
>>> To: 'Farpoint57@yahoo.com'
>>> Subject: Hancock 12972 test email
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> This is the test email I promised you.
>>>
>>> Please hit reply to confirm receipt, then I will email you
confirmation
>>> of our tentative appointment set for next Thursday, March 22nd at
4pm.
>>>
>>> Thanking you in advance,
>>>
>>> Jim Strauch
>>> J&R Windows for Schuco
>>> 201-910-4878 cell
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Paul Hancock [mailto:farpoint57@yahoo.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:50 PM
>>> To: Young, Cindy
>>> Subject: RE: Schuco service
>>>
>>>
>>> Before 12 noon or after 4 PM there will be some one here. We will
need
>>> to know what time so we can be here.
>>> Paul
>>> --- "Young, Cindy" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Paul -
>>>> We didn't forget about you...sorry you felt that way. We are
>>>> scheduling for a technician to be out in Ohio next week Thursday,
>>>> March 22nd. We have passed on your contact information and you
will
>>>> be receiving a call from them to finalize an appointment time with
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Cindy
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Paul Hancock [mailto:farpoint57@yahoo.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:10 PM
>>>> To: Young, Cindy
>>>> Subject: Re: Schuco service
>>>>
>>>> As you can see by the date it is now half way through March. I
have
>>>> not heard anything from anyone. How about i fond someone to fix
the
>>>> growing number of problems and send you the bill?
>>>> Paul
>>>> P.S. We paid over$ 8,000 for 8 windows.
>>>> --- "Young, Cindy"
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Paul -
>>>>> Just so you know I didn't forget about you....this
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> time, we don't have
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> a dealer in that immediate area that can come over
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> to see the problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm going to see about getting our service tech
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> out to see you. The
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> schedule right now looks like it would be the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> middle to the end of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> March.
>>>>> Let me get with our service tech and square things
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> up. I'll keep you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> posted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> >

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All I am asking from the Pella company is to give me the product and service they would want! I have been dealing with getting my window fixed for over 2 years and to this day it is still not corrected. If I can save someone from having to go thru what I have been thru then I will. Companies can't continue to treat their customers like this and they need to know that.

Galefarm,

I understand your frustration with bashing window companies including Pella and most complaints need to be qualified and are not specific to a particular brand, but are determined by how the contractor/vendor handle complaints. The issue to keep in mind with Pella is that they distribute their product in two venues. The upper end products ie: Architect series and Designline are sold through local franchises not from Pella direct. The Proline series is sold through the big boxes as a commodity type item. In either case, service is dependent on the quality of the local store.

I have over 25 years experience selling to contractors, installing and servicing windows. The number one reason for complaints is poor installation. If the windows aren't installed properly, they will not perform to the customers level of expectation regardless of the quality of the window. The next issue is the vendor not specifying the right window for the application. Aluminum clad units are not suitable for seacoast application unless they are extruded aluminum with a commercial grade Kynar finish, and the exposed aluminum frame must be washed annually to maintain the warranty. Pella uses roll formed aluminum on the exterior of their windows, and the standard spec finish should not be used in coastal locations. The commercial grade finish is an upcharge and often neglected to keep the window prices competitive.

There is no perfect window out there, and all windows have their pros and cons. Vinyl clad windows will handle the weather better, but the cladding will chalk over time, vinyl moves with temperature changes, which can lead to leaks as the sash frame can separate from the glass over glass. These are just a few of the potential issues with any windows. A no maintenance does not exist, and all require some maintenance to operate properly. If you have any concerns about a particular window, Google the manufacturer. Not to bash a particular company, but I looked up Peachtree for a customer and you would be amazed at what you find.

Too much here to read. I have never liked Pella window designs since the 60's, hate the aluminum cladding, and they will refuse to replace a wrong order even when it is obviously their mistake. Too many good windows available to consider Pella in my opinion.

I will curse Pella until the day I die -- you make a defective window -- you replace it at YOUR cost, period. You don't blame the failure on installation -- oh, ok, it's not that, oh, it's the mulling, oops we did that, too, at the company, ok, then, well, we don't like cement fiberboard, that's the problem -- and finally, finally, after I have paid for the infra red camera expert, yeah, the water is getting in beween the cladding and the frame, but hey, it's not our problem everyhing is rotting, your warrenty expired before you caught us! HAHAHA. There is a reason why Pella just lost its appeal on the certification of the class action suit -- courts know that unless a class can be certified, companies like Pella will never be forced to make good on their mistakes. You broke it -- YOU fix it, bottom line.

The class action lawsuit being prepared against Pella says everything you need to know.

They would rather fight it out in court than try to solve the problem.

I have pulled more Pella windows in bad condition than any other brand.

What is the class action suit? We had to replace a sliding French door only a couple of years after installation due to faulty design of the exterior cladding. Pella would NOT stand behind it but the company who sold it to us did. I have had 2 houses of Pella but sorry, their customer service is ABYSMAL and downright embarrassing and corporate doesn't seem to care.

http://www.freedweiss.com/Pella-ProLine-Windows-Investigation.shtml

Lovely, I have a whole house of 1996 Pella windows.

In all fairness to Pella it should be pointed out that this class action suit is specifically aimed at Pella 250 and 450 series aluminum clad Casement Windows. I haven't read anything regarding any other window styles.

OTOH I believe Pella has known about this for a long time and as usual attempted to blame the installation. Pella even altered their warranty on casements in an attempt to avoid responsibility and the costs of redesign. Their minions have appeared on many sites such as this to defend Pella and to protect their own financial interests. I'm really glad they have been exposed. Perhaps this will serve as a warning to manufacturers that in the future it's best to acknowledge it when there is a problem and work to correct it rather than finger pointing and trying to blame others(although I doubt it).

I find it ironic that this information has been posted in a thread about unfairly badmouthing window companies.

Gotta go with the majority. The subject of the class action is the result of water getting down behind the thin roll form cladding on the sash and rotting out the wood. I've seen glass literally fall out through the bottom of the sash because of the rot. True, the majority is directed at the Series 250 (Pro-Line), but the same method of attaching the aluminum clad to the sash is also used on the 450 (Architectural) and the 850 (Designer Series). The numbered series are Lowes versions. Pella has also dramatically shifted their market away from the high end user/architectural focus to the mainstream mass retailer and consumer replacement window user. You can see their ads in USA today every week - discounts on Pella! buy 5 get 1 free! Its all about how many windows you can produce in a day. Sounds like the suede shoe vinyl salesmen. It only goes down from here.

Lighten up, people. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and anyone else is entitled to get mad about it, but let's stop the personal attacks. They serve no purpose.

I have been in the remodeling business since 1974, so all you youngsters with less than 36 years experience just sit back and quiet down.

Any manufacturer can produce a bad window. Pella, Anderson and Marvin have been sued in class actions for window designs that caused accelerated wood deterioration in the windows - and all of them stonewalled for years denying the problem - and I think everyone but Marvin has settled. That's the way corporate American behaves most of the time. Trex and the other composite decking manufacturers are masters at it. All these companies make a good window, and some clunkers.

Most problems with most windows are installation problems. Poor installation causes more problems than poor design or manufacturing. (Having said that, though, I will also say that I have never seen the kinds of manufacturing defects I have seen in Andersen windows from any other manufacturer. -- Including completely missing parts such as weather stripping and glides.) But manufacturers also contribute to the problem by blaming just about everything on installation -- and homeowners, who don't know better, tend to believe them. I never let any of my customers talk to a window manufacturer rep unless I'm there. If they want to tell me my installation is defective, they'd best be able to prove it. So far none has.

So back to basics -- you can get a bad window from even the best manufacturer. Pella and Andersen are probably no better or worse than anyone else. They make some excellent windows and they make some bad windows, and they can make manufacturing mistakes with any window. The measure of a company is how well the respond to the problem.

Pella, with its decentralized dealer system, relies on local dealers to take care of it, and if they don't Pella does not really have a company-wide customer service organization worth the name.

Andersen is a little more centralized, but they rely on the local builder to do most of the legwork. We tell them up front that the defect is their problem to deal with, and while we will help with the process, we charge for acting as their guy on the ground. We always get paid, and if we don't we sue. The latest wrinkle from Andersen is that they charge $140.00 to even come out and look at a warranty claim on a window.

Would I buy a Pella or Andersen? Probably not unless the customer insisted on it. Pella is overpriced for what you get, and Anderson has too many quality problems and too little post-sale follow up. I would buy a Marvin, Kolbe or Simonton window -- at least this year. Next year I may change my mind.

Regards,

One last thing and I'm done with this thread.

Why don't you aggrieved consumers file a complaint with the BBB? Your local window dealer is probably a member (and if not, why did you buy from him?). Most window manufacturer's are also national members. As a BBB member they have to agree to binding arbitration to resolve any window complaints. You can demand arbitration and you'll get it -- although the BBB may try to shift you to mediation instead -- stand your ground. If the arbitrator finds for you, the company has to pay up or lose its BBB accreditation.

Regards,

So anyone with less experience than you needs to sit down and shut up?

Sorry pal, I don't think so. Who in the heck do you think you are to say such a thing?

You start out blaming it all on installation and then you end up conceding that the complaints are valid and that the manufacturers don't take care of their problems. What do you think this thread is about? I was posting here when this thread started nearly 3 years ago. I and others have also advised many consumers in other similar threads on the steps to take to try and get these issues resolved. Way before you showed up here.

Maybe you need to hop down off that high horse you just rode in on, lose the attitude and do a little more listening and a little less typing.

I think I have muttered profanities over Pellla A series windows the last 13 months. I have called their service number and did leave a few well chosen profanities cause no one calls back.
I bought a home with Pella windows . ALL are failing.
ALL!!!! not one or two but all. I have replaced 28 last summer and will do another 22 this summer. I will leave the last 20 plus for another year.
What I see is that the aluminum clad lost its integrity and water got into the sash rotting out the bottom sashes.
I also see mold growing on the interior of the window grills . I can not join the class action suit since i am not the original owner.
I have called Pella several times with no help.
E-mails are answered as we will get back to you.
The windows failed due to poor construction not from neglect.
Stay away from Pella. The product is a nightmare , there is no service and I am spending a mini fortune for their horrible product.

I'm not shocked. Their vinyl windows are much worse.

chickadee, please email your real name and completed contact information to pellawebsupport@pella.com so we can look into your concerns.

Pella ProLine casement, awning and transom windows manufactured from 1991-2006 are part of a U.S. class-action settlement. If you own those products, visit www.windowsettlement.com or call 1-866-523-6760 for information on the claims process.