1) My initial recommendation would be to either go for the replacement sashes at the lowest investment, or go for a quality product if you elect to replace.

2) The Okna 500 is the best performer by a fair margin. In deluxe trim (which it is most commonly sold), it gets a .25 u factor which is significantly better than the other choices. Then there is the aforementioed air leakage ratings.

3) The Bainbridge is a solid offering, and with triple pane glass for a significantly lower price, it certainly makes that choice hard to beat.

4) Personally I would not consider the Bershire. Taking some design cues from a Mercedes and putting them on a Kia does not make it a Mercedes. The product is undoubtedly improved over previous verisons, but still not in the same conversation as the other two options. The fact that this product cannot accommodate triple pane glass speaks volumes in my opinion. I have been given a demonstration on the product, and personally decided that it is not a product that I would like to offer my clients.

5) In terms of energy efficiency alone, the biggest ROI will undoubtedly be in the attic air sealing and insulation if that area of your home has not been addressed. From that perspective, it would be best to invest your funds in those areas first. That said, obviously you have a need given the defective windows, so you will want to balance energy efficiency and "bang for the buck" in that regard, along with quality and longevity. The replacement sashes would probably win on "bang for the buck" alone, however given that the rest of the window (frames, hardware, etc) are 23 years old, maybe that is or is not a wise investment.

6) On pricing, all of the quoted prices are within a normal range, and every price will depend far more on the circumstances of each given dealer than the wholesale price of the product itself. The Berkshire/Excalibur/Mezzo can be found from $189 installed all the way up to $1200+. The Okna generally starts in the $500's on the very low end to $1000+. Same for Softlite's lines. Whether or not that exact price of $760+ is a great deal or perhaps a little high will depend on a whole slew of factors from installation circumstances to product options, regional location, etc.

Ultimately, my recommendation is that while you do not want to be gouged on price, you do want to invest in the best product that you can afford. A couple thousand dollars is a couple thousand dollars no doubt, but when we are talking about an investment of this magnitude and duration (30+ years if chosen well), that can put things into a different perspective... My guess is that among pros there would probably be a pretty even split, with the Okna being a bit more stout, and the Bainbridge offering a pretty high value proposition with that triple pane and price. Between those two, I'd do some thorough vetting of each contractor which may provide some additional clarity. Pick the product and contractor that you prefer, then see if anything further can be done to come to a happy place on your budget (from both sides).

I will make this simple for you. I believe the berkshire elite and alside mezzo are the same window. The alside mezzo CANNOT be ordered in Triple pane glass and why is that??? I have a strong suspicion that its because the frame on the alside mezzo and berkshire elite is very weak and flimsy and cant handle the slightly added weight of triple pane glass. . Whats troubling is the fact that triple pane doesnt weight much more than double pane , so for them to refuse to allow triple pane in the mezzo or berkshire elite is a RED FLAG even if you are only ordering double pane glass. To me, that makes all those extra features the mezzo and berkshire have basically insignificant.
There are other windows that are built MUCH stronger.
Purchasing a well designed window certainly more than justifies your up charge considering you will be living in your home for more than a year.
soft lite, sunrise and kensington quantum all make strong/ air tight windows.

This post was edited by mmarse1 on Tue, Dec 2, 14 at 17:07

Thanks for the follow-ups. I guess I thought the Berkshire Elite was a decent mid-range window, but based on the responses it doesn't sound like that is the consensus. Honest question here: if the frame of the Berkshire Elite is not that strong, why does it come with a full (IGU, glass breakage, hardware, balances, moving parts, sash, labor) lifetime warranty? If they were that bad, wouldn't Revere (AMI) offer a shorter / not as complete warranty?

The problem with the Bainbridge option is I have nothing in writing, it is a lot of "we'll work out a deal" and I really have sort of lost confidence in that contractor based on the switch to the super high-pressure sales pitch.

I think the contractor I am most comfortable with is the Okna, followed by the Berkshire Elite. The reviews I have found lean a little more favorably with the Okna dealer, which you would hope with the quality / price of their windows.

I guess I could start looking for another contractor that sells Soft-lite (and maybe one that sells Sunrise), but I was hoping I was close to making a decision. I guess that is better than buying something that may or may not be good.

Is the pricing on windows typically seasonal? I hear that this is one of the busy seasons with everyone trying to get better windows before the cold sets in. Would prices drop if I try and hold out until the Spring?

This post was edited by jasonumcp on Tue, Dec 2, 14 at 22:59

Seems like a quote from Tommy Boy would fit here...

Ted (customer): But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of sh*t.

Because AMI knows how long that the average consumer owns their home.

My close personal friend got Alside windows and goodness knows, he has had to use that warranty. 12 seal failures to date on windows that are about 6 years old. They used to just give him the windows without asking any questions, not they are making him jump through hoops. We had the same windows (Andersen) and I am so glad I haven't changed mine.

His leak air like a sieve and they have lost more seals than his Andersens did in the 25 years prior. The interlocks on half of the windows are bowed as well on the larger units.

I guess you could say the windows are happy because they are smiling at everyone on the street. This picture isn't his but it about accurate.

There is no coverage for the warp in this case because it is considered "in specifications".

I don't even know that much about windows but I know that I don't want anything from any company that would produce what he has in his house.

Here is a link that might be useful: Financial Health...?

Good info above.
The bean counters at these manufacturers know exactly how much exposure they have on these warranties, and the more "economical" products are watered down in terms of quality to the point that they can still make a fat buck without worrying about losing money to warranty claims.
Low cost, high volume. High quality doesn't go hand in hand with those.

Regarding seasonal pricing, there is not too much that changes for most companies. You may find better discounts around the holidays as that is when business slows down, but other companies won't. Not a hard and fast rule either way.

The current berkshire elite series window is the exact same window as the new alside mezzo window. I have used alside products in the past and can tell you based on my experience that i would only comfortably install their siding products, certainly not there windows. As far as i am concerned, alside is a siding company. We use their prodigy siding panel and like it.
The bainbridge is a relatively solid vinyl window and one that i have used with success,. We are now transitioning to the Elements offering which in my opinion is the best constructed window i have seen thus far; certainly one of the best.

Based on input here, I am kind of ruling out the Berkshire Elite. I went back and got a quote from another company and they quoted Vytex Fortis windows. He said they do Sunrise, but they have a great relationship with Vytex (factory is probably 10-15 miles from here), the Vytex is just as good as Sunrise, and we could get a better price/deal on the Vytex.

His quote on the Vytex (lifetime window warranty from Vytex, 10 year labor from the contractor) was as follows:

Energy savor plus R-4 rating (double pane)=$6,997.00
Energy savor max, Triple pane r-5 rating =$7,972.00
Energy savor Ultimate Triple pane , Krypton r-6 rating,=$8,322.00

They also offer an Energy Savor max triple silver low-e coating:
Cost for the Energy savor max 3S r-5 rating is $8,372.00.
Energy savor Ultimate 3S, r-6 rating is $8,522.00

The triple-pane R5 has a U factor of 0.2, SHGC of 0.25, VT 0.42. I believe the AI is 0.05. The triple-pane R6 has a U factor of 0.16, SHGC 0.25, VT of 0.42. AI is the same at 0.05. I don't have CR ratings. These are the values for the base windows - not the ones with the triple silver low-e. I don't have any info on how that coating affects the ratings.

In addition, I found out there were some discounts from the Okna dealer that I didn't account for. The updated price of the 1800 series triple pane is $10696 ($764 per window). I double checked - the contractor's labor warranty is lifetime.

For reference, the quote for the Okna 1800 lists a U factor of 0.19, SHGC of 0.23, AI of 0.01, CR of 75, and VT of 0.37.

The Okna contractor said they would use low expansion foam during the install. The Vytex installer said they would use it if needed (and probably because I brought it up).

As of now, I think I have narrowed it down to these two options. What would you guys recommend? Is the Vytex triple silver low-e coating any good / worth it? Is the R5 Okna 1800 ~$2000 better than a triple pane R5 and/or R6 Fortis?

Thanks.

I'd say no unless the installation of the Okna is superior.

If have to agree with todd for the most part. The Okna is still the superior product, but the fortis is pretty solid. On product alone, the premium may be difficult to recoup. That said, I'd give significant weight to the dealer/installer, as that can EASILY be worth a premium of more than that amount. That is obviously up to you to determine which outfit is more secure, reputable, and trustworthy.

For $400 more, unless i am incorrect, i would go with the vytex with triple pane kryoton. 400 really isnt much more for an investment that is good for at least 20 years.
If this was the potomac, i would say the quality comparison is even.
The fortis still seems very solid with some nice features though. From their website, the potomac seems to have a beefier frame and a magnetic seal along with different hardware.

This post was edited by brockwin on Sat, Dec 6, 14 at 16:44

I think that you already know that answer Jason :)
We know that while the Fortis is solid, the Okna is better. In addition, your "good vs great" comment on the dealers involved here is very telling. This is a 30yr+ investment of several thousand dollars. Go with your gut.