I am a big fan of fiberglass windows (Integrity & Inline). I like full frame replacement as you are insulating between the fame and stud. I also think this form of installation looks best. I like Marvin as a company due to their size and stability. Product identification is etched on the glass so there is no question on the warranty and who to call. This is my biggest complaint on most vinyl as your only identification is a sticker on the head jamb. Read the fine print on lifetime warranties to see what you are really getting.

You will see in old posts on this site people pushing Gorell as an upper end vinyl and look at the newer posts since they went bankrupt/bought out. Sunrise who bought Gorell isn't honoring the 50 year warranty Gorell offered.

This is just my opinion so take it for what it is.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ultrex

Softlite bought the assets of Gorell not Sunrise.

Not only that, but the material that a window is made from has no correlation on whether or not they will go out of business. Gorell had a nice window, so that is an unfortunate situation.

Hi GW friends. I need your help on this. I am super frustrated with my shopping for a good value / good quality patio door. I narrowed my choices to Milgard, Anderson Renewal, and Integrity by Marvin. I was set to go with Anderson until the Rep told me my original quote had a seasonal discount of $1,600 that was no longer being offered (I apparently missed it by one week), but that she would "split the difference with me" ---- NOT! Just what I wanted to do, pay the Rep's $800 bonus and help her meet her sales goal. So, it was down to Milgard and Marvin. I liked the Milgard dealer and I thought their quote was fair, but I would have to get my own electrician, permits, and drywall. I'm just too busy to become a general contractor right now. That leaves me with the Integrity, which I have not actually seen in person. The only dealers within about 40 miles of me don't have the Inegrity line on display -- they only have the Marvin, more expensive wood clad product on display. Based on my research on GW and other sites, I believe the Integrity is probably a very good product. However, I can't even find pictures (real ones, not diagrams) online with the exact specs for which I was quoted. Seriously, do they expect me to pay thousands of dollars without even being able to see the product online? BTW, the quote for the Integrity 6' w x 8' h French door was $4040 not including installation, or glass / hardware upgrades. This seems high, however still less than the quote I received from Anderson ($7,700)! So, please weigh in on this. 1) are these prices in line with the industry average (considering geographic area, and quality). I would really like to make a decision on this and move forward. At this rate, it will be winter before I get my door installed!

Kimmie, I apologize if I missed it, but I don't see where you posted your location, and more detail on pricing would be needed to make a a recommendation on whether yours is fair or not. On product, is you want a wood/stainable interior, the Integrity is a nice choice and definitely worth exploring.
Can i assume that you are out in the Western part of the country somewhere given that Millard is no longer available in the Midwest or eastern region?

Kimmie, It sounds like you are looking for a french door and not a sliding patio door. We have the Integrity sliding door, and although I absolutely love my Integrity windows, I find the slider heavy and cumbersome. We adjusted like the company advised and noticed no difference. The door doesn't slide open easily - i.e., with 1 or 2 fingers. I have to put a bit of muscle into opening and closing it. The first sliding door I noticed that I could open with one finger was an Anderson. It was so smooth and opened easily. Then my brother-in-law got all Anderson sliding doors and his open easily too. I've heard the quality of Anderson windows is crappy. I don't know about the quality of the doors, and maybe a french door will be a whole other issue. While I love the look of my Integrity slider, I'm not happy with how hard it is to open/close. It's not really any easier than the crappy contractor grade vinyl slider we replaced.

Deb52899, Thank you for sharing your experience with the slider door since I may be replacing that also and do not want a door that is difficult to open as my cold crappy contractor vinyl slider is.

Deb, I've been looking for window replacements for years and just haven't been able to decide. Integrity was one of the windows we were considering. Do you have any photos of these windows you love? If they are posted elsewhere on the forums, please direct me to them! thanks.

Jessie, I have some photos on my computer here at work. I only know how to post one at a time, so there will be several posts (sorry).

This is our living room. 3 casements that all open and 3 stationary on top. They are brown on the inside, white on the inside. Brushed nickel hardware. We did not change any window configurations - just replaced what was there.

This is the bay in our dining room and a bedroom slider up above.

This is the bay from the inside.

Here is the door wall. I love the looks, but it does not slide as nicely as 2 Andersons I've tried at other people's houses.

Here is the door wall from the inside.

The kitchen windows are 2 of my favorites.

Master bedroom windows, although I don't have any of the outside.

And here is another upper slider. I have more, but hopefully you get the idea.

One more of the whole front that I just found.

Deb52899, thank you so much for the beautiful pictures of your windows and home. Your house definitely has curb appeal and the new windows are definitely an asset. Sorry that your slider is difficult to open.

thank you, deb! Your windows look great!

So, you got all ultrex windows? A couple of other questions if you don't mind......all our windows are double hung so those are the ones I'm mostly interested in. I see you have some wood window sills, are those original to your house? They look good and we have some painted but lots of stained sills and trim too and I haven't decided how to handle that. Like should we go for all ultrex or wood/ultrex?

Also, your pics are a little far and dark, I can't really see the trim if any, in the kitchen. Can you tell me a bit more? Were they full rip outs? I can't remember for sure but thought integrity was made for full tear outs. Also, what kind of grilles did you get? They look so nice. Are they between the glass or a divided lite?

Thanks so much, I really appreciate it.

Thank you for your compliments Lynn!

Jessie - the 3 windows in the master bedroom, the kitchen 2 windows and the 3 bay windows are all double hung. The wood sills are original to the house (1999). Our main floor trim is all wood; the upstairs trim is all white (by trim, I mean the stops, sills and molding around the windows and door wall). That's the way the house came - we didn't pick it. Our windows are all ultrex. Yes, they were full tear outs and replacements. The grilles are between the glass prairie style. I wanted something different than the squares since that's what in the whole subdivision. We also got them on every window, not just the front windows. It wasn't THAT much more. I hope I answered all of your questions. Let me know if you have any more.

For reference, here's the front of the house a few months after we bought it. We were working on landscaping, so forgive that part, but you can see the face with the old windows. I think the brown Marvins added a lot.

Wow, Deb, they look great. I think you made a fantastic choice, changing the exteriors to a darker color...I love the contrast. I like the prairie grilles too although I think my little boring little brick ranch will do better with squares.

I so appreciate your thoughts/information/help. This has been a struggle with me for some years now (trying to pick windows I will be happy with has been impossible for me!) I have really old anderson narrolines and don't want to lose a lot of glass. I think the integrity windows might be just the ticket. I do like the idea of fiberglass too. You even helped me resolve the grille issue, as I was worried about between the glass grilles but yours look great and now I think I want them too.

Thanks!

Jessie, I wasn't willing to lose any glass. Also, my 2" wood blinds inside - I love them and wanted to reuse them. We don't have any other window treatments - just the blinds (except a valance over the kitchen corner windows). The Sunrise window guy told us the windows would be deeper and we wouldn't be able to use our (inside mounted) blinds. That's a lot of money in new window treatments tacked on to the price of windows! Also, if I remember correctly, there would have been less glass. I was thrilled that the Integrity gave me the same amount (or more) of glass. I just love how they look. Our casements in front all open - the old ones, only the center window opened. I love them all open. We had the front casements tempered (not required) because I have all boy grandbabies and could just see someone smashing into that front window while rough-housing in the living room. I'm really very pleased, even though the door wall is heavy, I love it too. I'm so happy with the change. Where are you located? Hopefully you have a great Marvin dealer!

Now, there's another question I could ask you....who did your install? Did you buy the windows from a dealer who installs or from an installer who does integrity? Or something else? We are in western pa, about an hour from pittsburgh and although I can find integrity here, they are in small stores or lumber yards. They can come to measure and order, but don't install. I have a local company who does windows exclusively....they have done vinyl inserts for us at a rental we have and we like them, and I would probably go with them although they don't sell integrity and I don't know how much experience they have with those windows. What did you do?

Julie, We purchased ours from a Marvin Design Gallery called Laurence Smith Window & Door. There are 2 of them in Michigan. The sales guy brought the windows to us to show us and measure. They have a showroom, but I knew which windows I was interested in, so he brought them to my house and we explored them. Then he called his installer (a subcontractor they use) who came out and measured more accurately. Then the sales guy wrote up the order and contract. I approved and signed and gave him a deposit. He ordered the windows. They took a week or so to make. Then he had the installer call me to schedule install. The windows were delivered to my house on installation day and the installer showed up with his crew. Any issues, and I contact my sales guy (one of the screens didn't fit right). He takes care of it. Be sure to fill out the warranty info on the Marvin website (sales guy didn't tell me this). I did and in the comments I wrote about the doorwall. Marvin headquarters called me the next day. She told me stuff to try (adjusting height, etc.). I tried, but it's not THAT big of an issue. I think the door is just heavier than I expected so I can't open it with a finger. So I haven't called headquarters back to follow up. But I thought that was pretty nice customer service.

Anyway, I looked up Pittsburgh area. I see that Integrity is retailed at many lumber yards and home centers. I see one Design Center that maybe would be like where I ordered from. Here is the info:

Hildenbrand Design Center, Inc
299 3rd Street
Irwin, PA 15642
(724) 863-0101
(724) 863-3684 (fax)
hildeninc@verizon.net
Store Hours:
Mon.-Thurs. 10:00 AM - 8:00 PM
Fri. 10:00 AM - 6:00 PM
Sat. 10:00 AM - 4:00 PM
Closed Sunday

I'm not sure if buying them from a lumber yard or home center and then paying your installer yourself would save you money. Also, who do you call for any warranty issue? Would the lumber yard or home center take care of you? You could call Marvin directly and ask them. We had various sizes and types (sliders, casements and double hungs). We had 23 windows and 1 door wall (the living room front is considered 6 windows, but 1 unit). I know the installation portion of our contract was $2880. Included "remove, install, insulate, trim interior and exterior, haul away old units." I was very surprised and thought that cost was very low. The team was amazing and did a beautiful job.

Thanks. I haven't checked the Irwin store yet....most, including this one are an hour plus away but I may check with them too. What I've found is that the sale of the integrity windows closer to me has been really separate from install. Integrity site doesn't include installers although as you say, some may use sub contractors. The ones closest to me can only give us names of people, the contract would be separate. In that case, I suppose I would have to inquire of each (seller and installer) what their warranties would be. Maybe we'll check the Irwin store out and ask if they have installers. Thanks again for all the help!

Jessie - the design center we went with was an hour away from us too. We never even went to the store. Like I said, I knew what I wanted to see, so they brought the sample windows to my house. Hopefully the design center in your area will work the same way. Wish I could send you my guy!

Me too! Your install cost was incredibly affordable!!!

Debbie is a smart shopper Jessie and spent a good bit of time researching her options and decisions.

I am not surprised that she got a great install and overall value.

Thanks WOW!

Hello, I'm finally back with an update after several months. We decided to go with the Sunrise replacement windows & the installation is set to begin tomorrow. Thanks to feedback from the experts on this site we feel Sunrise will be a great window for us.

Sounds good.

Post up some before and after pictures.

Deb52899,
If you are still following this thread, we are considering replacing two casement windows using the same Marvin Gallery in the Detroit area. Would you still recommend their services - did their business partner, FBI, do the actual installation? Thanks.

Efficiency - I definitely recommend their services and yes, FBI did the actual install and Fred and crew were amazing. I have a couple of service issues (one double hung is needs a heavier weight, one of the casement handle's trim is broken) and they came out to fix them. The service guy was great, but in full-disclosure I want to let you know that he is the ONLY service guy for the entire state (I think that's what he said), so it takes quite awhile. He ordered the weight and the handle part - neither are emergencies of course - and he said it would probably take a couple months before he got back here. I'm sure if it were broken glass or something I insisted be fixed immediately that they would have accommodated my needs, but I'm not in a hurry and don't mind waiting on these items. But yes, I would go with them again, most definitely!

Thanks, Deb. I appreciate the detailed response!

I don't mean to revive a totally dead thread but I'm pretty much in the same boat as the OP. I've gotten quotes for Integrity All Ultrex and Sunrise. It's a 32 window new construction. The Sunrise ended up being about $500 more than the Integrity (almost $15K compared to a little over $14K). The problem is that I'm a little over a barrel because it is hard to find quality vinyl vendors in my area (deep SE Alabama). I've tried multiple times to reach the closest softlite dealer and it is like pulling teeth. We were impressed with the sunrise rep that drove down an hour and a half to see us and was not pushy at all. I mean I would like to be able to get another quality vinyl quote, but I don't know that I'm going to be able to. Okna already told me they don't have any representation in Alabama.

Brooks, I guess there are pluses to living in the big city at times. How is your window shopping going?

Nancy, we ended up going with the sunrise. We actually did get him to come down a couple thousand from his original quote. The funny thing is that Okna called me the week we were going to make a decision and told me they were working on getting a dealer in our area but it would take a couple of weeks and then last week, the soft-lite guy finally called me and said my email got hung up in his spam folder. We had already signed a check with sunrise by that point. C'est la vie.

You never know what you will find in your spam folder! At least the shopping is over. I just put down payment on Sunrise Restorations casements to replace 1978 aluminum sliders in Michigan. We will have a much warmer second half of the winter!

Sounds good. Keep us posted with some before and after photos.

Brooks Barnes...what Sunrise model did you go with (basic, Vanguard, or Restorations)?

This is a good place for photos, not someone's current thread, so maybe I will post some here!

I'm in the process of researching new replacement windows and it's daunting. I have plaster walls inside, 11 wood double hung windows with fancy wood frames and a large picture window. Every window has wood grids inside and outside the paynes of glass.

A lot of vinyl replacements are ugly and we don't want aluminum capping covering the outside. Some of the better companies are even using a capping system. I've looked at some vinyl that are aged in my neighborhood and they don't hold up well besides being unattractive, the vinyl windows can fog up as they age. I view vinyl replacements as planned obsolescence because even if you get a lifetime warranty.... getting the company to honor the warranty could be difficult and will a company replace a lot of their windows if they fog? Most complaints I read are about getting them to come out to your house to honor the warranty.

Our struggle is more with how to replace the large picture window. I watched the Youtube of Sunrise doing a Full Frame picture window replacement and they tear out the entire frame inside and outside. I'm afraid if any installer tears off our indoor frame, the plaster is going to go with it. The house was built in 1963.

My fear comes from a guy who without our permission, was trying to replace a bedroom door by pulling the entire door and frame out to replace it with another entire pop in frame. We caught him before he could do it but he had already destroyed the plaster around the door by pulling the frame off. We just wanted a new door put on the same frame. So, now we're super cautious about the plaster now. It's a lot of work to repair if it's damaged by inexperienced people.

Having to re-plaster the walls around the pic window would be a problem in my area. There are no master plaster people available, they work for the top construction companies on bigger million dollar homes so, they won't bother with small plaster jobs. Plastering is an art and not a quick fix. I would pay for a skilled plasterer if I could find one.

Does anyone have a window brand recommendations that would just take out the old windows from the original frame and install new glass leaving the inside frames and sills as is?

I realize that keeping the wood frames means scraping and painting maintenance on the outside but that's preferable to losing plaster around this large window by doing a Sunrise Full Replacement. Hiring a painter is easier than a plasterer. I would probably also lose my custom wood shutters too. Haven't researched if a full replacement vinyl picture window can be shuttered or not.

Thanks!

What "fogs up" on a vinyl window? Are you referring to the frame or the glass? The same companies that make most of the glass for the wood manufacturers make glass for all the other frame material manufacturers (i.e. vinyl, fiberglass, aluminum, etc.).

You can install any window as an insert and create a small trim detail on the exterior or pull the interior stops and install to the backside of the exterior stop. This can eliminate the capping look if you choose to go that route.

The door replacement type you are referring to is a replacement (some call it a z-bar) door. That is not a huge chunk of the replacement business because the door frames are normally rotted out due to age and poor maintenance.

If you want to leave much of the frame intact, look for what is referred to as a "Sash Kit" or "Sash pack".

Thanks.

The door replacement is done. We stopped him mid work and asked that he go out and buy just a new door and cut it to fit the frame, new lock, door knob, etc. But the damage he left behind by not doing that in the lst place was expensive.

The fog is in the glass of Replacements which can occur after years owning them. It's common in replacement windows. People are surprised when it happens but a neighbor forewarned me about it, the replacement company never mentioned it.

We've decided to nix replacements and have someone restore our wood double hung. Then buy low e storm windows and get rid of the aluminum ones. Apparently the R values in low E storms over wood windows are about the same as the replacements in the mid-South....I cannot verify that's true tho. I don't know anyone who's done this. Most people just do all vinyl replacements around here.

Our biggest dilemma is renovating the big picture window. I have no idea where to start or who does this work. I have been told not to go to glass companies, they are too costly. I want to get rid of the 3 panels in their 3 frames with wood grids and put in 3 low e large solid panes of glass instead. I guess it has to be a special glass (tempered?) also if someone throws something at it and it breaks. We can mange the upkeep of the wood frame which is prettier than aluminum or a vinyl look alike from Sunrise.

Hi sjsocon, I am glad to see that you are going to repair your existing windows. When I read that you were thinking of keeping the original frames, then having replacements made to go inside, all I could think of was how little glass would be left in your windows with all that vinyl or fiberglass! It is hard to get replacement windows and not lose window glass size as it is, even when you rip out the frames to the brick (or whatever one's walls are made of). You will be much happier with restored original windows and updated storms, if you have the gumption to deal with storms, that is!

Being in the South, are you going to have two separate "storms" seasons, winter and full summer heat? Having spent four years in Baton Rouge, I remember summer cooling season as a time in which insulation is almost more important than in our mild winters. With your mid-south location, it may not be as important as where I was, but if you button up for cooling season, you might save some energy dollars.

My last home had some fogged vinyl replacement windows. (From when the seal in a double-pane window fails and moisture gets between the panes.) The lifetime warranty would have replaced them, but there was a cost to me for doing so. I think the windows themselves were free, but I had to pay to have the work done. The buyers of my home were not too interested in fixing them, so I saved that $300 or so. The warranty did cover the needed replacement of fuzzy weather stripping and snapped off tilt-window tabs. I had to pay $150 each for the two trips out for the window guy to evaluate and do the repairs, though!

Have you located the restoration company to do the work on your windows yet? If they don't have any leads on who to get to do the picture window, I would see if there are any Mid-Century Modern websites or organizations to ask for advice. I am jumping to a conclusion about your home based on when it was built, I know that I may be wrong there! Even if your home does not fall into that category, though, those people know about having big panes of fixed glass windows replaced. Best of luck with your renovation!

Thanks for your thoughts on this. We have not found a restore person yet. We are arriving at these conclusions day by day after getting estimates from the Replacement Window Companies and talking to neighbors who've had window work and replacements. I can't more forward on anything until I do my homework.

I love my wood windows...not the painting and glazing it takes though. We have the older aluminum storms which have protected our windows from rain and snow. I'm in Va but I am a native of New Orleans so, I'm use to air conditioning most of the year.

Va has 4 seasons and some winters can be very snowy so, without storms, it's going right into your wells. With storms, I just brush it off the glass as it piles up and it never touches my wells or windows.

Also, a neighbor has 2 Replacement windows with the capping and it caused his window sills to rot. Water must have gotten inside the capping. I don't know why anyone would buy those windows. You'll never know what's lurking under that capping besides the fact that Replacement windows do have flaws and are not meant to last more than 15 years. My wood windows have now lasted 54 years.

I am told that if you get the new low e storms, it's better than our old storms. I have to get storms, our wells are large without them. The house was built in '63 and it looks as if the windows were built with storms from the beginning. They were probably upgraded at some point but we have 4 storm doors as well. The storm windows are 3 track.

The only issue not solved right now is the big pic window and how to upgrade it. I can't find out who could help me with that. I may have to call a builder I know and get his advice.

;-)

There are few things in your posts that are incorrect. Don't mistake me for argumentative, but I want you to be equip with the correct information moving forward.

1. Nothing about a replacement window makes it any more or less prone to seal failure. Seal failure (i.e. fog inside the panes) is what you are referring to. Any window (replacement, sash, new construction, etc.) is going to have the potential for seal failure if it is a multiple pane, sealed IGU type of construction.

That said, any and all of those IGU type windows should be covered by a warranty and are quite good when it comes to the engineering against these type of failures.

By saying you aren't going to choose a window that is equip with a sealed IGU, you are effectively eliminating ANY and ALL new products and the vast efficiency benefits from consideration.

All sealed IGU windows are serviceable and have warranties on them if you are using a quality manufacturer.

2. The realized R-Value of of a Low-e equip storm will, in most cases, not approach the realized R-Value of a sealed IGU with Low-e/argon. The argon is a more effective insulator in this case and while the air space in the storm/single pane is deeper, the lack of "static" air space and airtightness of the storm/single pane combo usually means that it is not nearly as effective an insulator at the end of the day.

3. If you are concerned about the frame dimensions of a replacement window, I suggest you look at the actual dimensions of these windows very closely. There are replacement windows that have similar realized dimensions to the windows they are replacing. In some cases (not many but there are some), the dimensions of the replacement window and viewable glass is actually larger than the window they are replacing.

When you are observing the size of the window and the perceived obstruction of the wider frames on replacements (not necessarily always true), you need to look at how the storm encroaches on the view. You are measuring and comparing the interior dimensions of the frame and glass area while not looking at home much the exterior storm obstructs the viewable area when looking any direction that is off center.

Lastly, you can certainly look at "Sash Kits" or "Sash Packs" as they will have similar or smaller dimensions than you current windows, preserve all the woodwork, but give you a more efficient and sealed opening that should last for decades.

Keep in mind that storms with low-E will have a hard coat low--E coating to the inside that will be exposed. I have seen box elder box discreation compromise the finish and some cleaners as well. All capping is going to leak at sometime . The header should be installed properly and if the sill is capped properly it will kick almost all water out. Capping is often overlooked but it a detail that should not be overlooked.

A-Craft Windows in Mpls makes sash kits that have many options and they will custom stain and paint. There prices are wuite a bit lower than Marvin's. They sell Allied and Larson storms as well, I'd only use Larson's top offering.

Windows on Washington,

Thanks for your comments. I've had replacement window Reps in my home who offer Lifetime warranties on their windows, Reading through Angie's List in my area there seems to be many complaints from customers who can't get the company who sold them the windows to honor the warranty or they make the process so difficult customers give up. Nor can some customers get the manufacturing company to send a rep to access the problem. More attention is paid to the selling side than honoring the warranty side after they're installed.

And the older the replacement window...the harder it seems to get some companies to come out to inspect it or they come out and find a reason to not replace the replacement. I've read quite a bit of that on Angie's List for my area and online even for companies like Marvin which surprised me.

The replacement window companies would have fewer complaints if their Lifetime Warranty side of the business was just as eager to honor the warranties as the sales side is to sell the windows.

In addition, the online complaints never disappear. So, even if/when a window company cleans up it's act and starts addressing their Lifetime Warranty promise new prospective customers will run into those negative reviews which cast a bad light on some companies. Marvin seems to have a lot of complaints.

We love our house. Our goal is to age in place for as possible. We don't want to go through replacing the replacements! Experts say, vinyl does not last like wood and it will need to be replaced 7 to 10 yrs, or if you're very lucky you may get 15 yrs useage on some of them.

I know people who've replaced vinyl windows after 10 yrs due to the clouding problem which they experienced on too many windows. Maybe the reputation of replacing the replacements for various reasons is why some vinyl companies offer the Lifetime Warranty.

We have spent countless hours doing the pros and cons. Our biggest concern is our huge cottage picture window and 2 matching large companion windows on each side of the pic window in front of the house. The picture window takes up almost an entire wall in our livingroom. The light is wonderful especially in the winter, it's a southern exposure all day with no obstructions. We use to have trees but they're gone so, we can see why they built the these big windows across the front in '63, all 3 had shade from 2 trees. We also want to replace the small single pane wood grid windows on all with a no grid double pane large window that is designed for full sun on the picture and the 2 companion windows with a double hung double pane with grids only on the top window.

All the local window companies are only as good as the sales team, installations team and fulfilling the warranties especially, in a timely manner. Failing to do so in any of those 3 areas means I'd be less likely to buy windows from them.