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anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

Posted by suzan30 (My Page) on
Sat, May 19, 12 at 6:33

Thanks very much for the advice I received to my last post. I've gotten two estimates for my window replacement project, one for Okna 500 for a total of $6800 and one from a company called Certified Windows for 5600. Needless to say, a savings of $1200 is attractive, but not if the windows are inferior. Certified Windows doesn't specify the brand of window (bid just says "7/8 insulated, low e argon filled glass, welded frames and sahes." This company was recommended by a neighbor, who was satisfied and whose windows look good.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

i know both windows. the okna 500 is much better constructed ( by far ). the extra 1200 will not amount to much based on the longevity and durability if the okna.
dont cut corners here.


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

Not so sound like a broken record but it is about a 99% likelihood that the Okna 500 is the better window.

The fact that the other company would not disclose the window manufacturer or the associated data is a big red flag to me from the start.

The Okna 500 is one of the best windows out there today and if you are planning on spending your money once, that is going to be a better choice.

Also, not to undermine your neighbor, but consumers are not always the best evaluation of what makes a good product/installation.

Don't get me wrong, word of mouth is a great evaluation tool, however, I have talked to folks that actually raved about the new brand "X" window that they got. What they did not know is that the brand "X" window was going to start falling apart in a few years and that the brand "X" install was not very good.


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

I'd have to agree. I can only speculate on what the other offering may be, but I can say for certain that the Okna Insultec/HiMark 500 is an elite choice.


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

Btw, if you have not spoken to him already, Dave over at Strong Windows is THE MAN in Chi-town. Okna is one of his lines, and he does a fantastic job at a great price.

Here is a link that might be useful: Strong windows


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

+1

You need to call Dave at Strong Windows.


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

I would also consider getting a quote from the Gilkey Window.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gilkey Window Company


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

ohiowindoze
looking at Gilkey's website, its concerning that they seem to utilize a pocket sill rather than a weled sloped sill.
thats a big time design flaw if in fact they do.


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

mmarse. Just saw your response and wanted to simply chime in on a few observations. - I dont believe the pocket sill is a design flaw as you stated but is in fact a better design if installed correctly, simply for the following reasons:

A "pocket sill" allows for complete encapsulation of the bottom sash rail. This keeps contact surface area on both the inside and outside of the sash creating a better seal

The typical pocket sill generally has more honecombs or chambers creating a stronger more rigid sill member and preventing crowning that alot of existing sill openings prior to install will have. Obviously its not a good practice to screw into the sill frame for risk of petrating the extrusion which could lead to a leak in the rough opening after installation so a more rigid, honeycombed frame will stay intact and plumb and square more so than one with lesser chambers, generally a foam filled sloped sill.

Worse case scenario with a pocket sill, even if there is some natural expansion and contraction, there is some "play" in the pocket which will still allow for contact area of the weatherstipping and is more "forgiving" should there be temporary movement with climates with wide Delta temperature changes like we experience in the midwest.

Generally, the Design Pressure or DP ratings are higher on both air and water with a well designed pocket sill simply due to the additional barriers, diversions and angles which reduce and retard the wind pressure.

Now, with any product design there are some drawbacks......the pocket sill is tougher to clean as the pockets can hold dirt which is why we recommend leaving the screens in year round to filter any debris from passing into the sill. Ulta View screen mesh can help with this filtration dramatically. We also recommend checking the weep holes periodically to prevent obstructions.

The debate with pocket vs slope sills will go on with us window guys forever, just like internal vs external glazing beads, but we feel the overall performance advantages of a quality (keyword Quality) pocket sill outweighs the easier cleaning of a slope sill design.

We try to encourage our prospects to compare AAMA Performance grades on air, wind, water, and forced entry. Then of course look at the NFRC numbers for thermal performance. Im sure you and your team do as well. It then of course comes down to trust and the investment.


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

i respectfully disagree. companies utilize pocket sills for 2 reasons.
1) its a very cheap/ easy way to achieve slighly better structural numbers ( sometimes). although most high end window companies are getting air leakage rates as low as .01 in double hungs with a welded slope sill.
2) a pocket sill is much cheaper to produce than a welded sloped sill. on a pocket sill, all 4 extrusions are the same and a snap in piece is inserted as a sill. its quick, easy, and cheap from a production stand point. with a welded sill, special tooling is needed as well as a more time consuming part added to production. a welded sloped sill is just a much better design,


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

So its not a design flaw, just a cheaper method....ok NOW i understand. Well thought out response....thanks


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

Sorry Ohiowindoze you are just simply incorrect. Windows with the lowest air infiltration rates are nearly all true sloped sills. Okna is .01, Sunrise is .04, Softlite Imperial is .03. In addition, all of these brands have a minimum DP rating of 50 and some are as high as 70 and that's without sash reinforcements.


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

ohiowindoze
a pocket sill is a major design flaw as mentioned in a previous post. water drains through the frame where weep holes get clogged. again, ever see all that black mould in the corners of a pocket sill or " snap in slope sill"?
you would never see that in a truely welded sloped sill. this is why higher end companies invest in expensive tooling for welded sills.


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

I'm going to have to agree with both mmarse and Ecostar. A fully welded sloped sill is by far a better design, and the newer models such as those listed above outperform pocket sill design by a comfortable margin, all without the potential pitfalls associated with that design. At best, it is harder to clean, at worst, clogged weep holes = retained water which can freeze, crack the frame, and leak into your wall. There is really no reason to choose a pocket sill design at all. It is outdated, and I would not be at all surprised to see it phased out of all product lines in the future.


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RE: anyone know Certified Windows in Chicago?

Let me take this opportunity to agree with all my esteemed colleagues while I have the chance. With 35+ years under my belt, I can tell you that pocket sills are a mess. Always have been, always will be. They are, frankly, a horribly stupid idea, and like HS said above, they will become part of the ugly past eventually. While engineers are very smart, sometimes the designs they come up with only look good on paper, but in the real world are a disaster. Do not ever get windows that don't have a continuous one piece sloped sill.


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