If you want to go back in a time machine to the 80's go with the Milgard aluminum. You'll be much more happy with the performance of the Simonton daylight max. Operates more smoothly and has better thermal numbers. The daylight max also is a little more slim than the average vinyl so you should be happy with that.

I have used the Milgard aluminum and found it to be okay. Did and do have some operational issues with a few windows.

Haven't seen the Simonton offering referenced above so I can't comment on that one.

Because you are looking at maximizing light, you might also look at fiberglass. The Integrity all ultrex is available in your area. Much better performance numbers than aluminum and with the new Title 24 ratings about to take effect in July just a better option. This is fiberglass or vinyl.

It was my impression fiberglass was very expensive..? It might be cost-prohibitive...

but having said that,

I just did a quick check on frame size comparison.. both Ultra and Integrity frame size isn't all that much different from Daylight Max (may be 1/4 inch thinner all the way around than Daylight Max). and Alumimum is still significantly thinner framed than all of them especially on the stationary pane.

The frame thickness for moving/screen for aluminum is comparable to the fiberglass.

But again, With our climate frame conduction energy efficiency is not much of an issue, so..

It's weird how when manufacturers can obviously make the frame narrower, they don't. especially for the stationary pane. It's almost as if they are forcing themselves to match the thicker frame of the moving pane... Or intentionally keep the thicker frame of wood...

This post was edited by LNJ14 on Wed, Apr 9, 14 at 14:46

One other thing: We have experienced zero problems with rattling or leaks. Our sliders are in bedrooms on the north side of the house though. So they don't get hit hard when it rains.

Aluminum is certainly less of an issue in those areas of the country as compared to the areas that deal with heating concerns (i.e. deep winters).

I agree with WoW, thermally-broken aluminum windows are a viable option in areas of the country where winters are mild. Aluminum is very strong and durable with some of the narrowest frames in the industry.

Thanks wws944 for sharing your experience. glad to hear that they seem solid.

TB Al are available now. not sure if the cost is really worth the performance difference (u-values for vinyl=0.3, standard aluminum=0.45, TB Aluminum=0.38), since you actually lose more in terms of frame thickness on the moving pane (TB aluminum has wider frames than standard aluminum.. so gets even closer to Daylight Max dimensions!). So if we opt for thermal performance, we'd probably end up with DaylightMax..

comparison quotes I got between Simonton DayLightMax and the Milgard aluminum was: standard aluminum is about 10% less than vinyl, TB aluminum is 30% more than vinyl.

Sounds like the vinyl is the way to go.

I would think looking at the u-values of the frame styles does not suffice. One probably needs to take some sort of product of the u-value and the exposed area of the frame. Since aluminum frames are much thinner than other styles, there is less area to conduct and radiate heat compared to other styles.

So I think looking at the whole window as a unit, the glass is much more significant than the frame. Especially here in the Bay Area - where outside temps rarely dip below freezing in the winter. Summer performance is much more important - especially on south and west facing walls. But again, with aluminum this is mostly a function of the glass - which is why I specified the SunCoatMAX glass. In retrospect I probably could have saved a few dollars, and gotten a little more ambient light, by not doing the SunCoatMAX glass on the north facing windows.

When we were rebuilding our house, we rented a place that had vinyl window frames. Did not like the look, and did not like the way they worked. (Don't remember the manufacturer.)

This post was edited by wws944 on Tue, Apr 15, 14 at 13:31

I know this thread is approaching four years old.

I too am deciding on modern, aluminum windows for my remodeling project. My house is in San Francisco and I'm looking at Milgard aluminum, non-thermally broken picture, awning, and casement windows for my modern home.

I've read numerous horror stories about issues with the seal failing between the five and ten year mark. And that was compounded by even worse stories about Milgard's service response.

Am wondering if folks here have any insight into this? Still recommend Milgard aluminum or suggest another similar looking and priced window manufacturer?

Thank you!

Milgard is a great vinyl window. A leader in the industry in the California market. If you want vinyl I would say don't use anyone else. They also do have good service. When it comes to aluminum and you have a residential project, look for a company that specializes in aluminum. All Weather Architectural Aluminum is a quality product with a decent price as well as local to the Bay Area. Blomberg is also good, in SF but more expensive. Fleetwood is very popular with aluminum but very high budget.

I just completed a project with about 30 Milgard vinyl windows where I had to replace approximately 50% of them because the frames were out of square from the factory.

Just had vinyl Milgard Tuscany series I staled. I am so disappointed, and dislike how thick they are - seriously impacts the glass and look very chunky. All of the frames are different styles - look terrible next to each other in my kitchen. I have a slider, fixed and a casement. I’m hoping to hear back from someone from Milgard to discuss and possibly Rio our and replace. Apparently they are all from the Tuscany series, white vinyl and yet don’t match at all.