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Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

Posted by wingal (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 11:15

I started a new thread, because the subject of Marvin windows was no longer accurate. I'm in the Denver metro area in a house we plan to stay in forever.

I just had the Vanguard dealer out. Here's what what he came up with:

For 11 double hung windows, 1 top half circle, and 1 picture with wood grain color inside, royal brown exterior, the Latitude Glass S2000x package, optiview screens (standard on the Vanguard) - $14,090. How does that sound as a price, installed?

Also, in two places where we have double hung windows now, I'm thinking of substituting sliders. For one, instead of three double hung windows, it would be a 3 lite slider in a 1/3-1/3-1/3 configuration because of egress requirements. This is a north facing window in my office and gets a fair amount of wind.

The other would be in the kitchen where there are two small double hung windows on the sides that we'd leave as is, but the two larger double hungs in the middle we'd change to a 2 lite slider. If we do both of these slider substitutions, we'd save $2,000.

My question is, on the Vanguard, is the air infiltration difference of .04 for a double hung and .09 for a tilt-in slider going to be noticeable to us? Would we sacrifice anything noticeable for the savings?

Oh, and is a 3-year installation warranty fairly standard?

Thanks for any advice. I think we're going to go with these windows, but just these last few items.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

The Vanguard is a great window. On pricing, I don't mean to cop out, but there are a ton of variables in installation style, product options, dealer size and business model, etc, so the accurate way to compare would be to look at quotes by comparable companies, on comparable products. I can say that it is not out of a normal range with a complex install and some pricey options, but would certainly be high for white and a classic pocket replacement.
On install warranty, there is really no standard. You may see anything from 1yr to 10yrs to lifetime. Most installation related problems would manifest themselves within the first year or two, so I'd say that you should be okay there. A 10 yr or lifetime would be better, but hopefully not necessary. You could always ask them to increase the coverage to sweeten the deal for you.
On SL vs DH, there are pros and cons. You should not see a pronounced drop off in the area of air infiltration, and the sliders also offer the benefit of substantially more glass area, and the lower price. Conversely, the double hungs would offer a more structurally sound option (think long term), and a tighter opening. If you go with the sliders, make sure that they fully shim the sill to support the weight. If they don't it will sag over the years, causing the windows to begin to leak air, and ultimately worsen to the point where you won't be able to lock them. This happens even on good quality products if not properly installed/supported.


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

Thanks, Homesealed. I don't know if this helps, but the $14,000 price is about $2,000 more than the quote for a similar configuration for Sunrise (not the Vanguard) with similar color options inside and out.

On the window configuration for the two areas I mentioned, I'm really in a quandary, trying to balance cost, look, and efficiency. I like the look of the additional glass and am considering single prairie grids (not currently in the price), which look much better on the picture and slider windows.

Anyone willing to give me a detailed consult either here or privately if I send photos, dimensions, and other info?


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

I am not a fan of sliders in place of double hungs as a personal commentary.

Done correctly, both will do just fine but I prefer the Double Hung for the reasons listed above.


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

Thanks WoW. I appreciate both the low-down (from HomeSealed) and opinions (like yours) from more experienced folks.

I should clarify the installation warranty. I just got this from the person I'm working with.

If there are issues that arise because the installation wasn't done right, they stand behind the installation (no charge) for the life of the window. For three years, they'll fix any issue, whether it's the window itself, glass replacement, etc. for no additional cost. After three years, if they have to replace glass, a sash, whatever, it will most likely just be a trip charge, but could involve more labor charges if it were replacing a whole window.

is that more in line with what you expect?


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

wingal,

That is pretty normal.

There is no reason that anything should ever really go wrong with the frames per say and if a sash does go bad, a homeowner can very easily swap that out.

I understand the company wanting to cover their time and expense and it is completely reasonable to ask that. We, normally, do not charge trip charges as we lump it together with other appointments or other items if we are just delivering and swapping out a sash.

Its also and opportunity for us to take a look and market ourselves to the client again.


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

Well, we went with the Vanguard. I hope they're worth the extra cost over the Sunrise brand (about $2,000 for 13 windows).

Oh, and just the day before we signed the contract, our contractor learned that Sunrise changed the warranty for the exterior paint colors to 10 years for fading and 20 years for blistering, peeling, and such. This had all been in the lifetime warranty before. They also came out with more exterior colors, including one that we liked best, but we hope this warranty change doesn't mean a lower quality product.

We did talk with our contractor's Sunrise rep to ask several questions. We were fairly satisfied with the answers and just cross our fingers that the dark color we want holds up well.

Thanks for you input over the last few weeks. It's helped a lot to hear from experienced folks who have no stake in what I select.

Of course, now we wait a few weeks.


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

Keep us posted on the progress and install results.


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

Sure. Installers were just here and took measurements and answered my questions. They'll wrap all of the outside wood with aluminum that matches the window exterior color, which they'll glue, nail, and caulk.

They've been installed windows for 20 years, 16 of those with the company we're using. The seemed to know what they're doing. They'll also protect my interior flooring by covering it.

Windows should be installed in about 4 weeks, give or take a little. Can't wait! Stay tuned...


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

The change in warranty for exterior color does not mean they downgraded quality; its exactly the same. Its just unrealistic to warranty a colored exterior finish for life.
Some companies have better ways of applying an exterior finish and Sunrise is one of them.


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

Now I'm fit to be tied. My contractor just called me to say that on the Vanguard ordering system, he can't order grids to match the new royal brown exterior color. He confirmed that the new exterior colors aren't available in grids.

I originally hadn't contemplated grids, but the single prairie style really grew on me and we decided to put them in the four picture windows. I ended up thinking that would look really nice.

Now I either have to change the exterior color (none of the others work for me at all) or forego the grids all together.

I just went to the Soft-Lite site to try to see what i can get and started a chat. It seems like I can get the combination I want, though I loath having to start again. They're going to contact my contractor.

But, my question here is this. Are the Soft-Lite Elements comparable to the Vanguard? Any pros or cons to the Elements? Should I expect them to be similar in price? Anything else you can tell me about the Soft-Lite windows? I've not investigated them much.


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

Sounds like Sunrise rolled out the new colors before they should have.

The Soft-lite Elements window is a solid window choice, and is probably going to be very comparable to the Sunrise Vanguard in pricing. The frame is much bulkier and heavier duty than the Sunrise Vanguard. Can't go wrong with either window.


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

Elements is very solid.


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

Thanks ultrawindows and mmarse1. I'm waiting on a price quote on the Soft-Lite windows and am researching a bit more about them.

I'm a little bothered by the Soft-Lite warranty. It seems to have more "weasel words," like "limited" multiple times, than the Vanguard warranty.

Also, Soft-Lite warrants the external colors for only 10 years for everything. Vanguard warrants the color itself for 10, but blistering, peeling, cracking, etc. for 20.

Thoughts on the warranties? Anyone have experience with a dark exterior color (Royal Brown) from either of these companies?

Thanks!


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RE: Vanguard price and substituting some sliders for double hung

I'm finally posting the outcome of all this window research. I really appreciated the input from of all of you. We did get the Vanguard windows with the dark brown exterior color back in early July. It took a long time to get the screens replaced. The original screens had gaps that let in dozens of flies!! Needless to say, we were not happy about that.

I've gotten to know the Vanguard rep, which is good and bad. Our local dealer has been good work with. The windows look nice and seem to work well. Winter will really be the test, but I think they're keeping out hot air well.

Thanks again for everyone's input. I had never dealt with windows before and feel better about getting independent information about window quality.


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