To say the experience has been disappointing would be an understatement. Pella has been to our home for service over 25 times! I have considerable knowledge regarding construction from various work, education and a two year apprenticeship as an Architect that I worked many years ago. I am cognizant as to what are acceptable standards and normal installations for doors and windows. It was my experience that the Pella Designer series requires substantial installation preparation far exceeding that of a comparable Anderson or Marvin or Harvey product where the Pella windows will not function properly without extraordinary precise shimming the windows.

The problem lies in what appears to be an inherent design flaw where if the windows are not shimmed tight on the verticals jambs adjacent to the plane where the windows lock, the windows will "pop" out and not lock. This in part appears to be caused by the actual locking mechanism that employs a straight slot type of engagement rather than a gradual sloping type of lock that could first grab the sash and then close it tight. Another contributor to this problem seems to be the weathers stripping utilized in the manufacturer of the product. The weather stripping is so stiff, it make closing the properly installed windows many times very difficult and sometimes impossible.

In the North East where the weather and relative humidity changes significantly over the course of the year, the shim requirements to make these windows properly operational swell and cause operational difficulties. Additionally, when attempting to tilt-in a pane for cleaning, because of the tightness required to make these windows lock, the wood rails on the sides of the sashes become torn and damaged.

As far as the product being an all-wood interior, that was another illusion. The hinged panel that facilitated the ability to place the blinds and grids between the glass is actually a formed metal component that contains a very thin, "paper thin" layer of wood over the metal. This is problematic because the lock mechanism if not fully disengaged can catch this thin wood and easily tear it off. Given the price point of these windows, I submit there are better alternatives especially given that when we experienced problems, these were considerably exacerbated when Pella Boston, the "dealer" we purchased the windows through, were unresponsive, and acted in our opinion in a less than honorable way in dealing with an enormity of problems with their products at our home. We have been attempting to rectify non-conforming products delivered in May-June of 2005 still to this date! I will say on a positive note that if it were not for the earnest efforts for a Pella technician named Eric who has been to our home for over 20 times, I would have torn out the windows and commenced litigation.

On a final note, Pella’s position appears to be one to blame the installation. Last month, Pella sent out an engineer from the headquarters in Pella Iowa to our home to investigate our problems. We already had several structural engineers review these problems with out home and Pella was made aware of this. Pella stated that a pair of French glass doors were improperly installed where they were not plumb, level or square and that this was the cause of the doors not working. To demonstrate this was untrue, Pella was sent digital photographs depicting a digital level on each plane showing the plumb, and level and photos of a tape measure demonstrating the door was installed square. In an attempt to remove itself from the liability of correcting the nonconforming doors, Pella said the photos could have been deceptive and not true and sent the engineer to confirm what was already stated. It was learned this person testifies for Pella in court and so he was on a fact-finding mission. Unfortunately for him, everything was as we stated and he just wasted more of our time. Pella is planning on finally replacing these doors to correct the problems.

Our experience with Pella Windows has not been a positive one and I would never recommend the purchase of their product after our dealings with them. We have had problems with every aspect of dealing with Pella and to date have several issues unresolved.

Caveat emptor…let the buyer beware.

Their vertical sliding windows are something we deal with all the time. I've always taught my installers that proper shimming has to be done on every window no matter what. The Pella units require that special touch because of how their built. Ounce we level and square the unit with shims in each corner, we screw all four corners down tightly. (We use cedar shims so humidity doesn't cause any movement) After the corners are done we then shim the center of the windows right at the meeting rails of each window. We adjust the reveal evenly from top to bottom. Ounce we get this done we lock the center of each frame with screws. This will hold the window in the same place forever. We do all the lock down screws from the inside right threw the jambs. We also nail it down on the outside with the nail flange. After this we use a low expansion foam to insulate around the entire unit. Ounce this sets up it's also an adhesive. So the window isn't going anywhere after we're done. We use this technique on everyones window and we have no problem. But we do this for a living also. The average home builder wouldn't know this unless someone told them.

Another trick I use is Pledge Furniture Polish (Lemon Scent smells good) on all the weatherstripping up and down each side. I spray it on a towel and wipe both sides of the frame and also down each side of the sashes. I do this with every wood window we hang. The wax coats the weatherstripping and lets them slide much better with out much friction. The window functions much better and it's much easier to lock and slide. The field tech will never know about this one. I also think the seals are a bit bigger than they have to be. I guess the theory is after some time they collapse a bit and work better. The jury is still out on this one.

One thing to remember with any window is they have to be made perfectly square and functional from the factory before we can install them the same way in the field. You'll find that they don't come that way from the factory that often! Hope you get things resolved soon and good luck!!!

Pella has been out here at least 5 times at this point and each person that comes out tells me that the windows need time to get broken in. Well this is April and I am still having problems with the windows. I have to stand on a step stool in order to view that the locks are caughting and I have to put all my body weight into pushing on the window in order to get it to line up with the locks. I have even had to ask a second person to assist me at times in order to lock them.

I told them in the fall that if the windows were not operating properly in the Spring that I wanted them removed and refunded. I don't know if I'll have any luck with that, but I am tired of hearing that it will be fine in time.

Oh, the newest issue is that one of the windows was leaking the other day when it rained. Of course that was in the room that I just remoldel!

Has anyone ever tried to return the windows after installation due to problems? Is this possible?

Any assistance you can offer would be very much appreciated.

Just Tired of Pella!

Now since I have read this, I am really really considering other alternatives. From what I am reading, each of you have had nothing but problems and headaches with pella designer series. We were planning on the casement windows , I noticed some of you are using the double hung.
Thanks for all this information .

I have found dealing with Pella to be a nightmare too. They have broken every cardinal rule in the book regarding customer care. With Pella not only do they not stand behind their products, they add insult to everyone’s loss by trying to blame everything wrong (even after documenting it for them) with their windows and doors on the installer. Our new doors and windows leak so bad one testing company said why bother testing them, we can see daylight right through the seams of the door frame.

Please check out my web-site http://www.pellawindowsleak.com/
and send me your email address for more info.

Lowe's doesn't ask the right questions when you are ordering and some of these shodding contractors don't want to go through all the steps of 'setting' a window. Therefore the consumer suffers.

We had our builder, another builder, the mason and the Pella regional rep come out and look it. Everyone pointed the finger and each other. The pella rep said it was faulty installation, but the installer insists the window sills were leaking. Meanwhile, we are stuck paying a huge bill to rebuild our entire 2-story addition, take down the stucco and replace all of the framing reinstall the windows.

We're at our whits end. Any suggestions?

Yes you may have problems with windows installed in 1978.

Lowe's could not find water in a lake let alone get a full complex job of windows together. You WILL NOT find quality, expedience and low cost all in the same place!!

They are where they are because of who they are

Thank you for your recent emails to Pella Corporation. We appreciate the time you have taken to voice your concerns.

As a company committed to quality, innovation and customer satisfaction throughout our 82-year history, we strive to produce the most superior products with superior customer service. Pella is very proud of the products we offer, and do stand behind the warranty on our products. We feel that our warranty is one of the most competitive warranties on the market.

At this time, I am unable to comment on the resolution of this customer's concerns. We do take concerns serious and work diligently to ensure an amicable resolution has been reached.

Thank you again for contacting Pella Corporation.

Best Regards,

Randy Sedlock
Correspondence Specialist
Pella Corporation
7/23/07
-----Original Message-----
From: John S
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:48 AM
To: Web Info
Subject: RE: Pella.com~

Thanks for the response. But you avoided any explanation of how your company handled the customer in question (I have been to your web site and since talked to other contractors which have seen some of the same issues).

Did you resolve this matter with the customer of yours that posted their complaint? I trust you would tell me if it was resolved or Pella investigated the issue and it was entirely bogus..... I bet this person would send me pictures and documentation if I asked.

It does not sound like you all even looked into it? How you handle their matter does make a difference of whether I decide to buy Pella.
Avoiding
the issue of this supposed complaint makes me wonder if there is fire where there is smoke and how you would deal with me if I had an issue??

As I said below, every company can have a problem or an irate customer that is clearly in the wrong. How you handle the situation is what is of interest to me. Also, I do care about Pella's side of the story, especially if it is untrue.

Thanks again for your initial response.

-----Original Message-----
From: Web Info [mailto:webinfo@Pella.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:11 PM
To: John S
Subject: RE: Pella.com~

Dear Mr. S:

Thank you for contacting Pella Corporation.

We can certainly understand your concerns relating to the website you recently visited. There is a lot of information on the web today and provided by e-mail. Some of it is from trusted, reliable sources. Much of it is not. It's not unusual to find criticisms about almost anything and anyone on the web. For people who are interested in accurate information, we recommend www.pella.com as a responsible and trustworthy source of information about Pella and our products. Other online sources are often suspect and promote their own agendas.

As always, if you have specific questions about Pella products or services, we invite you to visit www.Pella.com, or contact us for further information.

Thank you for your interest.

Sincerely,

Randy Sedlock
Correspondence Specialist
Pella Corporation
7/18/07

-----Original Message-----
From: John S
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:40 AM
To: Web Info
Subject: Other

--------------------
Consumer Information
--------------------
Name: John S
Company: Haven View Construction
Street Address: 4
Street Address 2:
City: Statesville
State/Province: NC
Zip/Postal Code:
Receive Pella Updates Via E-mail: Yes
Accept graphic enabled messages: No

-------------
E-mail Subject
-------------
Other

-------------------
Additional Comments
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I am building a new 5000 sq ft house on my property in NC. I had just
about decided to use all Pella windows when I came across this web site.
I know that any company can have customer issues but the way these poor
folks seem to be handled are obviously enough information to scare
anyone off from being a new customer even if you do not believe half of
what all those customers are saying. It still sounds to me that you
have some engineering problems and as of today it does not sound like
you have resolved either. I have been in manufacturing mgmt for 15
years and customer service mgmt for 10 years prior to that. I can
imagine how many millions of folks out there are reading this and
thinking the same thing. It may have cost some $$ to fix these folks
problem even if they were in the wrong but I would bet you have lost
millions over this one customer.

I have always been leary of blogs but there are too many folks agreeing
with them to not believe I could not depend on you all to resolve a real
problem. Most people are too busy to waste their time blogging for no
reason or to have to fight a manufacturer over a made up issue. Mess
with the average Joe's home and you will never live it down.

here is the web site.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/windows/msg0310211418991.html

Email me if you ever resolve this and want a customer to be the
proponent for a new design. I have six months before making final
decisions on what 80 windows to buy.

By the way I plan to build 16 more homes over the next 5 years. I am
sure that could get you back some more business if you could sell me on
your product!

What I'm seeing in many of these cases is field personnel trying to fix something they don't know how to fix or even pinpoint. They stick field personnel out there that think they know everything and won't listen. This rep will blow things off and blame the installer with out really knowing where the issue is. They report back to the office stating the problems solved when it really isn't. Then the complaints roll in and Pella has to jump to find the problem. They then find their rep was bad and get a new one causing the process to start over again. I know they try their best to patrol their own but sometimes it takes awhile to find the bad eggs. One thing our new rep did was ask us old-timers (33 years in the industry) our opinions. Ounce he trusted our decisions he used us as an encyclopedia of knowledge and help. He wasn't scared to ask us for help which gave me great respect for him. We find an issue and he sends us what we need, it works well for us and the customer.

On the other hand I see many complaints here that are based off improper ordering by a Lowes employee, contractor or Pella provider. I can tell you most of your problems aren't Pella's as much as it's the people ordering your product. They'll tell you they did it properly only to push the blame off themselves. When you really look into the problem you'll see what I mean. Every Pella order is done on a system that prints out the order in great detail. The customer usually gets a copy of this to sign off on. Every little detail is on that sheet. If you didn't get it make sure it was ordered on that sheet. If it was then Pella's at fault & they'll stand behind it. There are many things blamed on the factory that aren't their responsibility.

Take some time to look into the issue and make sure the paper trail points their way. If things are lost or misplaced it's not Pella's responsibility to replace them. If someone tells you they ordered it, get the paperwork showing they did. If all this pans out you have all the right in the world to be mad. Well I could right a bunch more but have to go. Feel free to email me with your concerns. I've installed, manufactured & serviced doors & windows for 33 years. I may be able to help you get some of the answers you need to lay these things to rest.

My 2 cents is not to add more flames to the oil. This is just to share a customer's perspective. I am a prod. engineering manager at a software company where service calls, depending on the scope of the problem, escalates through our sales rep, field support, tech support engineers and eventually product engineers/managers and finally the VP of engineering. And the CEO if the problem is big enough or the customer large enogh. We all have to visit a customer site when there are problems.

We train our people from the top down that once a perception is made by a customer, right or wrong and regardles of whether it is our fault, it will be near impossible to change. Most of such customers will just listen to our explannation of facts as "finger pointing" or "excuses" or as passing the bucks. So we make it "seriously" clear down the chain that we always visit in pairs and we never make snap judgements or promise anything on-site. We gather the facts, listen to the customer's gripes, complaints, yelling and read between the lines to find the issues. Letting the customer vent to us is as important as identifying the problems.

We then meet in-house to analyze the problems and decide if we need to escalate to the next level, visit the customer again or we can render a solution and meet the customer to explain that solution in person.

Of the few people who decided to break this protocol, 100% of them have been asked to leave within 2 weeks. This process has worked extremely well for our company.

The old days of just letting a field rep be a lone wolf in the field representing the name of a whole corporation should really be over. Even with intense training, the lone wolf can turn out to be a bust. Without any customer relationship managment training, lone wolves often become a liability.

In this new internet world, it takes only seconds for a dissatisfied customer to vent his/her feelings online instantly reaching thousands and sometimes millions of readers. It take millions to build a good name and it takes only seconds to soil that reputation, right or wrong.

I suggest that Pella and other manufacturers who are not tech savvy to really take note and understand this new way of doing business. May be then Pella and other companies will put extra effort into training, screening and executing good customer service programs. Don't let the internet community be a threat, use it to Pella's advantage.

It will help companies like Pella and it will help customers like we and it also means the field rep learn valuable skills to keep working. It will be a win, win, win for everyone.

Great posts!

I really need the "blind within the window" windows & doors. My choices seem to be Pella and Eagle. I have a stucco/cement siding house. 1/2 of the windows/sliding doors will be replacements and 1/2 new construction. Since all of the existing windows are sliders, and neither Pella or Eagle offer blinds within windows in sliders, I've got to change the whole look of my house.

I want the blinds within the windows because between workers/kids/animals, I've replaced every shade/drape/miniblind/vertical multiple times on all windows & doors. (Yes, I live on a farm and have dozens of humans and critters through the house every day). The plans are at the architects right now, but I have to get my windows decided soon so my plans can get approved by the County. Sacramento County has very strict energy requirements. They needs to know all the window stuff before they'll issue any permits.

I went to the Pella store, and they wouldn't quote me any prices. I have to have a "sale rep" come to my house. That sounds worse than trying to deal with Lowes. Am I wrong to assume my contractor will pick good people to install the windows? Any advice is appreciated.

With respect to quality control - Pella shipped the wrong door handles - one was antique brass, the other was bright brass. When the initial replacement set arrived, the local rep didn't check them before scheduling installation. You guessed it - the replacement pair had the same issue as the initial set.

In summary, while Pella may allegedly make a top-of-the line product (and charge accordingly), the results and lack of quality control do not meet what one would expect. Consider some other manufacturer (like Andersen).

We cannot afford to have them replaced and need a solution quick. Eventually I find a way to seal 2 critical areas of each fixed windows on the outside and it seems to stop the wood soaking again. I basically cleaned all metal/glass edges and the recessed metal areas (then with lacquer thinner - important for the best bond) then caulked them all with GE Windows & Door Sealant II. But the recessed areas which are too deep, I installed a 7mm wide close cell foam around the whole frame first. Our local Vancouver Pella dealer was of course not hopeful, and even told us their windows should be replaced every few years. WHAT!!!

I feel your pain as I have been in business for a number of years & when a problem arises I don't sleep well until it's resolved & many times I have taken a heavy loss to aviod further torture from my client. I've been in the same situation where the manufacturer or the big box store simply had no response except to make excuses. Where ultimately the burden fell on me & my reputation. So guess who wound up taking it in the rear?!!

THANK YOU...THANK YOU...THANK YOU!!! For saving me that grief from Pella. I will have my client deal directly with Pella on the order, install, & waranty. IF....if They still want pella!!!

Anyone familiar with the company West Coast Vinyl? They are family owned, since 1971, and they manufacture, install and service their own vinyl windows. Their manufacturing plant is in Tacoma and they have offices in Seattle and Portland.

The salesman came out and measured and wrote us up a quote today.

Anyone have any experience with this company or their product?

It used to take 3 people to close these things

-the place I bought them from was telling me that they would eventually break in, and I used to believe them and then last month I found this message board after doing a search and realized I had the same problem as at least one other person. One person would have to push up, and the other person down-on one side and the third would have to swing the catch. I called the place I bought them from (my salesperson had quit by then) and they said it sounded like a contractor issue-the guy was not giving me anything until he realized we went to grade school together-and then I got some help. He hooked me up with a Pella rep who immediately called me back and had me contact another local Pella dealer-I called them and they said I'd have to pay $90 for a visit since the windows were 3 months out of the 2 year warranty-after explaining that I had been continually told they would "loosen up" they agreed to waive the fee. I told them my issue and the guy arrived today.

He brought new weatherstripping to replace the original stripping on the top sash that had a hard plastic line going through it. He explained that in theory the old stuff would have broken in, but they were finding in the field this just wasn't happening. 15 minutes later the weatherstripping was replaced and he also waxed the plastic on the inside of the windows..I can now open the windows much more easily and more importantly I can close and lock them myself!
I've got nothing but good to say about this company -Crawford Doors and Windows-the field tech says he has seen this issue before and knew exactly how to fix it-at no cost to me.

Thanks to all the postings.

"Argon. For Pella Impervia products labeled as having argon-filled insulating glass, Pella injects argon at the time of manufacture. No warranty is made as to the amount or percentage of argon present in the insulating glass. It is known that argon within insulating glass dissipates over time. The manner of use and conditions of installation of the product will affect the rate of dissipation of argon out of the insulating glass. Pella makes no warranty regarding the rate of dissipation of argon or the amount of argon remaining in the window at any time after manufacture. "

woodinvirginia:
it still seems as though your problems are with Lowes and not the Pella factory. If you had bought Jeldwen or Marvin through Lowes, would you then say that you should have bought Pella?
----------------
Feb 2008, Actually my problems were with Pella. Even though I did receive a set of grids sent from that contact from the Lowes.com website sent seperately though a DHL carrier express and special handling. They still goofed in that the GRid they sent for my speciality windows didn't MATCH the grids they sent 3 months earlier. When my Gutters were being hung the guitter man noticed one had one more rib in the center than the other grid.So another re-order still had to be done from the Pell Representative of that territory.
St least they learned from their past mistake of sending grids in cardboard sleeves. I understand now, that ALL of their grids from single pieces to multiple pieces now go out in a crushproof narrow box via DHL instead of UPS. It took Pella Management 7 separate shipping orders of grids to get it right. (Lowes didn't make the product nor ship them from Pella's manufacturing division.)

One thing I learned..dont buy the separate grids get the ones that are embedded in between the window glass. Its a whole lot less headache.

After spending an hour at this site, I can see I have loads more research to do before I even think about replacing my windows. If I could, I think I would just have new storms made but unfortunately, 80 percent of my 1950's era windows don't open anymore. I live in Virginia and the weather is decent most of the time, it would be nice to open the windows. So I guess I'll be spending a lot of time here and at my local BBB looking at manufacturers and installers.

Thanks again to all who posted here. Your misery has helped me and probably thousands of others! I hope to post again with a good experience. Cheers!

That CAN'T be seen as a positive to Pella's business. Call me crazy but Google's only the most used search engine in the world. To have a site such as this pop up 6th on a search for Pella windows has to be addressed by Pella and maybe in the future they'll consider how they do business because as one poster stated this can truly hurt a business that's been good for years. The internet is a wonderful place for research but can cost a company in the matter of a few minutes. Again my thanks! I don't have time to deal with bad customer service and to fight about it while building a home would be only twice as painful.

We need to replace the original aluminum single-pane windows in our 30 year old home, and love the look of Pella's designer series. We looked up the Pela Windows and Doors company here on the Better Business Bureau website, and they have not had any consumer complaints (another window company we were considering has had 12 complaints in the last 3 years....). Anyway, we live in
Southwest Florida where it is hot and humid, especially in the summer. Can you or anyone else tell us how well they think the aluminum clad wood frames are likely
to hold up over time in our environment? Likewise, if we get casement windows, will the interior wood trim of the window itself (which we would have Pella
paint white and maintain appropriately) become damaged by being exposed to the outside air/humidity/sun if the window is cranked open on a regular basis?The
casement windows would be on the North side of the house. Any advice and insights before we spend the $$$ is greatly appreciated.

Just found this web site and have spent time reading all the postings. I have not had any particular problems with Pella products, with one exception which I will outline in just a minute. My experience with Pella as a homeowner goes back to 1971, when 8 double hung windows and a large bay window were installed in my dental office. This was in the day before vinyl cladding was so popular, so all were outside painted surfaces. After 25 years of complete satisfaction, in 1996 I enlarged my home to include a second living room with 10 large Pella casement windows, two six foot sliders and two custom trapezoidal shaped fixed windows, all purchased from my local Pella store in the Pro Line series. Again, satisfaction until 2 years ago when I noticed that the bottom piece of wood across the fixed pane of glass in both sliders was delaminating and discolored. The reson was because of water infiltration. I consider myself reasonably handy, took my caulking gun and sealed the aluminum cladding between the seam at bottom piece of glass on both doors. Both fixed panels have had no more water infiltrating since, but where one is still just discolored at the bottom with solid wood, the other has continued to deteriorate significantly. Yesterday I determined to find out just how extensive the damage was. As you might imagine, once I removed the delaminated outer layer of veneer, the underlying wood was like saw dust. At least 2/3rds of the wood was decayed badly- no insects, water damage only. I removed most with my bare hands. I'm pretty sure I can repair it myself, since as I stated, it involves only the style at the very bottom, along the glass, not on either side at all. To my mind, I think it was due to a faulty seal or whatever between the cladding and the wood, but at 12 years, the factory will not honor any kind of warranty, nor would I expect it to. My question is if anyone else has ever heard of this problem ,and other than replacing the wood with a properly and carefully cut piece of well sealed 2X4 myself, there are any ideas? A call to Pella in Iowa and my local store and its service department were not helpful. I was hoping I could obtain a proper wood piece from the factory, but that isn't available. They were willing to replace the entire panel at my expense, but that's like shooting a mouse with an elephant gun! I still like Pella, and would use them again. I would however, try to use my old carpenter, who did both the 1971 and 1996 installs- he's a Michaelangelo of carpenters!

Thanks, drtoom

Pella, like many companies has done and continues to do a great deal of testing on their product. Because companies do this testing they have found the best way to install their windows and train installers to do it this way. Anybody with a tool belt can put a window in a hole, but only a trained installer should. A good framer or builder isn’t necessarily a qualified window installer. Pella just like 90% of the other window manufacturers will only guarantee the window ‘IF’ it is installed by a trained professional. My guess is many of you were a little on the cheap side and had somebody aside from a Pella installer put your windows in….. You get what you pay for.

For those of you ripping on the Vinyl products……. What did you expect?... Vinyl is nothing but a shiny plastic. Every Vinyl product on the market sucks. Vinyl is an entry level product for tract homes or a quick flip. You can quote me on this; "I will NEVER install vinyl in a home I build". For those of you shopping, I promise no matter what brand you look for you will find a blog like this. Rather than being a sheep, read material from a legitimate source, i.e. Consumer Reports.

You followed up this gem of wisdom by saying that people should read Consumer Reports as a legitimate source of information.

I am falling out of my chair laughing right now. Thank you for that. To top it all off, you have the audacity to call someone "sheep" just after you spouted off this nonsense.

Thank you again for the laugh at your expense.

I believe what all the consumers have said here and I see a trend. That goes a long way to convince me there is a problem.

Many thanks in advance.

I totally agree with you on this point. OTOH Pella pushes their low end products thru these type of outlets. So don't be surprised when that marketing approach has some blowback on Pella.

-"I do think that unbiased reviews of products are important, such as Consumer Reports".

I disagree with you here. CR is a terrible place for consumers to get unbiased information. To begin with, they only test products that can be purchased at a retail level, which you just warned people about. The other reason is they test such a small % of the window market, their ratings mean nothing. What criteria seperates a highly rated window by CR from a poorly rated window? There are also many better windows out there that CR never tests. Consumers should use the resources of NFRC, AAMA, Efficient Windows Collabrative for information on all windows instead of the narrow field presented by CR.

CR is a good source for the person who just likes to be told what's good and is too lazy to do their own research and look at different windows.

Thanx in advance!

The designer series you mentioned withe the blinds are an amazing product. Expensive es, but the technology is fantastic...no strings to run the shades or blinds, and an amazing energy efficiency

In short do not give up on Pella, but also make sure they are installed according to the instructions, and make sure the unit is square in the opening before nailing it in.

If you do not care to read our research notes, then Galefarm's comments are correct. I won't use the rolled-form against Pella automatically, nor would I use the "aluminum stop" against Marvin. Both seem to have logical reasons for their approaches; at least to my amateurish eyes. Select base on your own requirements first (thermal characteristics, applications, etc) before worrying about the cladding. Now if you want to know more, do read on :-). Window experts to please correct the following too and add more info.

We did a lot of research before buying our windows and doors and still have Marvin's spec. It is correct that Marvin's aluminum clad product, at least when we did our research five years ago, sets the outer glass pane so that it is "stopped", or held in, by the aluminum cladding. The inner pane is "stopped" on the inside by wood. This cross-section drawing can be found on the Marvin website somewhere. Between the glass panes is of course, the spacer. Both panes "sit" or "stand on" wood.

For stability and strength, using my own engineering experience (not confirmed by Marvin dealers), Marvin has to use extruded aluminum to make this work because extruded aluminum can be precisely formed so as to properly grab and hold the glass in place. Extrusion is the only way to force extremely tight tolerance and to ensure structural integrity. As Galefarm stated, and I have no info on this, if Pella uses solid wood to set and hold the glass, then rolled-form aluminum seems reasonable. The aluminum is not meant for structural support, only as a protective skin, so extremely tight tolerance and high structural strength may not be necessary.

We looked at this design at the time out of concern for thermal efficiency. To keep it short here, we found that aluminum is 250 times more effective at conducting heat than glass. Glass is nearly 8+ times more effective at conducting heat than wood. In terms of keeping heat to the outside in the summer and warmth to the inside in winter, we gave this "house-boundary interface" a good look at the time.

From the inside out, Marvin (as do Pella and Andersen and many others) use wood, solid or otherwise, so heat loss through the frames, assuming proper construction, is not a concern. The wood itself is a fantastic insulator, not much interior heat can be transmitted through a thick sash of wood to the outside.

From the outside in, it becomes interesting. The aluminum gets hot easily and then it is right next to the outer pane of glass. We had two concerns. First, what happens if heat from the aluminum travels to the glass? Will it get into the house easily via the metal spacer and the inner pane? Second, what of heat stress around the edges where aluminum meets the glass? Both these concerns were addressed by the thermal characteristics of the glass and the wood base supporting both panes. While aluminum gets hot, the glass hardly "notices" due to its relatively very high inertness (1 vs. 250 for aluminum). With summer temperature reaching to only ~200+ F in direct sun, the aluminum would hardly add any stress to the glass. With the glass formed at significantly higher temperature, this low temperature range is not even of interest. With the wood base, the heat from the aluminum has to travel through a small air space (insulated?) per Marvin drawing before reaching the wood. Wood itself is even more inert than the glass. So these combination of reasons allowed us to consider Marvin without further concerns of thermal problems.

One can argue, and we did, that the only concern left is structural. Will the aluminum cladding expand in the heat and begin to loosen itself against the glass over time? To the point of developing a leak in the future? We are unsure and can look to car bodies as an example. Aluminum, just like any material, has a fatigue stage when it can begin to deform. Fatigue can be caused by many factors, such as temperature, pressure, radiation, chemicals and so on. Extruded aluminum is thick and relatively strong. While it will expand in heat and contract to normal shape in the cold, normal temperature range in use on normal homes does not approach the fatigue range especially when there is no pressure stress. It is not the hull of a ship that will flex in heavy seas. About the only thing that can approach that range is intense heat from a nearby wild fire or a house fire. So our understanding of material strength and fatigue makes us comfortable that the extruded thicker aluminum cladding will not fatigue easily leading to a leak on normal use. We believe it will fade before it will leak.

Of course, there is always manufacturing defect, so we did not rule that out but that is beyond our control and what a good warranty and a good dealer are for :-).

With all that, we decided we could include Marvin in our selection five years ago. We ended up with Marvin not because of the cladding but because of the woodwork. At the time, we saw Pella and were not impressed. It could have been the dealer showroom was poorly set up, it could be the model of Pella we saw. After five years, with healthy competition, I am sure everyone has improved.

I will suggest seeing the windows for yourself, touch, ask, understand and research and then make a decision that meets your needs.

Hope this long winded post helps.

So, the last visit from Pella to repair the screen (again) i witnessed the guys perform the worst service call i had ever seen. None of the parts were actually broken until this guy pulls out his leatherman tool and proceeds to pull and twist the bottom bracket until it does break,.. i am watching this in total disbelief as he says " well, were gonna have to order these parts because they are the old style" i laughed and said your joking ,.. right ? i said, "all you have to do is is put it back together, nothing was broke,it just fell apart" (and no i do not have kids in and out this door all day ) So he takes the parts i had saved on the counter ( a bracket and two screws) which were fine, and leaves the mangled piece in the bottom track and the bracket on the top track (that he tried prying with a screwdriver) and says it will be $100 dollars for us to come back and fix it --- i have a ten year warranty on parts.

I call my rep and the Pella service office and relate to them what just happened, no luck with the rep as of yet,but the service person wants proof,..
so she gets my word as a customer and digital pics via email ASAP. It has been two weeks after emails and follow up calls and not a word - ,.. and to Paul above - I am not passing the blame , i witnessed bafoonery first hand from Pella and i do value customer service. Without it, (I) would not be in business !

Wow that was an interesting home improvemnt project. I am sorry to hear that. This is a perfect example of why good installers are so vital. The best way to purchase a window, have it installed correctly, and have no fingers pointed, is to purchase from a company that is as vertically direct as possible. What that means is that they build, sell, install and service directly to the end user. Unfortunately the largest window companies such as Jeld Wen, Andersen and Marvin sell through distributors and then sub contracted labor. To many cooks in the kitchen all pointing fingers.

I suggest a company like Marvins Infinity factory direct channel or better yet Renewal by Andersen which is a direct link to Andersen Corporation with no "middlemen".

Unfortunately its too late for you but as you can tell from the problems Pella is having as proven by this simple website, they know they need to scramble and make it right. I'm sure you will get serviced eventually.

"Renewal by Andersen which is a direct link to Andersen Corporation with no "middlemen".

Ha ha ha .............pretty funny. Sure you don't want to re-think this statement?

I own a home built in 1975 using what have been described to me by Pella representatives as 'vintage' Pella casement windows. These are single pane windows with a removable storm window insert. Since Uncle Sam is offering a $1500 tax credit for performing energy efficient updates, I contacted Pella parts and service to replace the 'just the sashes' as the windows appear to be OK otherwise. Not only that, but replacing all 30 windows could be downright expensive. As it turns out, replacing the windows might be the better option given Pella's ridiculous price quote of ~$400.00 for a 25" x 41" window sash -- which doesn't include installation. Yikes! Talk about price gouging.

At this point, I haven't decided what to do, but Pella won't be on my list of possible choices.

Seems like install quality is even more important when doing a Pella install than some others. I don't understand putting down homeowners who bought their windows at Lowes or from Pella authorized resellers, Pella markets their windows through these places and should stand behind their product if it's sold by any authorized source. Same goes for installs. But regardless of where the issue was caused (manufacturer, reseller, installer) everyone should work together to make sure the customer is not left holding the bag. Seems like a lot of customers are having to prove and reprove the issues and probable cause which doesn't make anyone feel good.

I hope anyone in this thread who has issues with their windows can get those issues resolved in a fair manner.

This year we are planning on remodeling our lanai (enclosed porch) and will be replacing the single pane windows in it with more Pela designer series blinds between the glass. The general contractors we've hired have excellent references, and have lots of experience installing windoes, but they have never installed a Pela window before. A Pela salesman that I spoke to on the phone (not our original salesman) told me that the installer didn't have to be Pela certified-- that anyone could install the windows by following the instructions. Nevertheless, I am wondering if I should have these windoes installed by the same Pela installer who did our first 2, and have the contractors do everything else (framing, etc. How should I go about this? Is it okay to tell the contractor that I want to purchase the windows myself and have them installed by someone else? I've never dealt with a contractor before, so I don't know the proper way to address this.

Just to point out one thing though, make sure that particular installer is still the one who will do this installation. Don't assume he is the only one who installs for this store, and that he still works for them.

We are a Florida contractor who has a window division. We take a lot of pride in our work. But if I am talking to a customer who is happy with the construction work that someone else gave him, I advise them to hang onto them. Contractors who do good work are hard to find. My attitude is if I am honest with them, one day they may again be in the need of a contractor and they will remember us.

As for hearing both sides, not on this site. Obviously my side is not the popular one in this thread!

The only way you would see that is if you were installing your Pella windows upside down. ?????????

At one point, yes that design was moronic & flawed. It has been rectified for a long time.

If you choose not to use Pella anylonger because they didn't stand by your side to help you fix the problems or their techies were of no use, so be it. However,it seems that your ax to grind with Pella is from the 80's and 90's. No reason to speak untruths about the design anylonger.

The windows turned 10 years this past January 2009. Of the 100 installed in the home, over 75 have failed.

Here's why: The adhesive used on the mitre in the sash at the bottom of the window has failed. Once the water gets in at this area, the wood behind the sash cover (in this case aluminum) expands. As it expands, it continues to break the seal at the bottom. In this case, the sash simply fell off and exposed rotten wood. I have photos and would love to share.

The home was built between 1999 and 2000. As a rental home and vacation home for the owner, the issue was never caught. Until a sash fell off.

We were at the home building a new deck when we discovered the problem and immediately told the owner (April 2009). They asked us to check into it. After hours spent finding the date codes on the windows, documenting the failure and taking many photos, we made contact with Pella.

To make a long story short: Pella would only give a 30% discount on replacing some of the windows. When I mentioned several windows had broken seals (arogon gas), they simply reverted to their pricing.

As a contractor we can get 40% off new windows and doors, so I didn't see the advantage in going back with Pella. I talked with the owner's insurance company to see if they could provide any assistance and was told the problem was not covered. The insurance company basically said if the windows are failing at 10 years and Pella is doing nothing, you can assume they would fail again and why would the owner want to address this again in ten years.

As we informed the owner of the dilema, we also researched windows and doors. We found European Windows and doors has a "lifetime warranty". They are made of steel and vinyl. As an option, we had new windows priced out, along with an Anderson quote. Anderson came in at half the price but the same warranty as Pella. The owner went with Anderson because of pricing. As a builder, we are planning on using European Windows and Doors in the future; you can't beat their warranty.

When we went to replace the Pella windows during the past three weeks, we discovered termites and secondary colonies on the third floor. We also discovered that the transoms (non-opening windows) were also failing around the window sash. Moisture had accumilated in cracks and crevices and we also found live termites in the area.

I strongly believe that the adhesive sealant used 10 years ago was not an adequate product. The gasket around the window also seems faulty. If Pella is still using the same adhesive sealant, then my guess is there will be many other windows failing in the future. The mitre also does not seem appropriate for the application and seems to be a design flaw. Perhaps Pella might want to find a solution and start mailing out tubes of a better sealant?

As a builder on the coast we understand how the environment impacts windows, doors, siding and adhesives. So if these windows fail every ten years, do the math on how much it cost every time to replace. We won't recommend Pella because of how they handled this situation.

I have very well documented this and have many photos I can share, so please feel free to email me (I think you can do it through this site or post your information and I will send you an email).

There is a legitimate problem with Pella Windows. If anyone is having problems now, just make sure to check your warranty - there's a date code at the bottom of your window - call Pella with it to find out how much warranty you have left. That's another thing with the warranty - they don't cover labor. If you need something replaced, your best bet is to get someone qualified to perform the install. In our client's case, we told them they were better off with another manufacturer.

As a tip for you homeowners. The mitre at the bottom of your window panel is a 45 degree joint. If this joint appears to be leaking or you notice discoloration, have a professional look at it. Don't wait until you are out of warranty.

Your comment about the mitre being at the bottom of the window in the "80's and 90's" only??? Unless they stopped making them in 1999, you are wrong. We are dealing with a very unfortunate homeower who's house was built in 2000. What are you basing your facts on? I have seen your comments throughout this blog and to be honest, you seem like you have some hidden agenda here.

There's more than 75 failing windows in the home we are working on. It is quite apparent they didn't just simply fail as soon as the warranty ran out (January 2009). Transoms were installed very high up in places the owner simply could not see. When the sashes literally fell off a window, They tried to get someone from Pella out for three months. When we came to the jobsite, I had an answer within 24 hours. Once I emailed photos and asked for a follow up by corporate, I got no-where. I had to call many times just to try and get an answer from their rep in NC. the only offer they ever made was 30% off and I have an email to prove it. I can get 40% off other brands. Really what is the point?

Pella knew and knows there is a problem with the design and adhesive they used. Regardless of what they are doing now, they are still liable to many for what they did then.

I understand Pella might have been a good product (I don't know when), but once they started mass marketing and mass producing, their product, just like most other mass producted, dropped in quality.

Our company survives because we choose to provide quality over quantity.

Our goal is to always keep our clients best interest at heart.

We have found manufacturers that can now offer a lifetime warranty on windows with no wood and better design features to handle water infiltration. While much more expensive than an Anderson, they are worth their weight for a worry free system for life.

Please stop with your negative comments, you need to look at what you have written to really understand yourself. People on this forum have legitimate complaints. I found this site by also searching for the homeowner and plan on encouraging legal action.

I like the features of Pella, but I'm concerned about the negative comments on the sliding door being on the outside. Is this a problem? Does it stick or freeze up in the winter? Do you get bugs in the house because you have to open the screen door, which is on the inside, to close the outside door? Also, is your roll screen finally working properly? Do bugs stick to it? Do you have to flick them off before you close it?

Pella claims their sliding door on the outside is an advantage because it has a tighter seal when the wind blows against it. Others say it's a bad design because of the bug problem and difficulty opening it in the winter. What do you say?

Anyone else with experience or knowledge on sliding glass doors please feel free to comment. Most of the comments seem to be about windows, but I'm only interested in patio doors and roll screens.

Any one has positive experience with Pella? We are considering Pella, because we want all wood windows and Pella has direct distributor in our area, and Pella also will do installation, no sub contractors. I looked Marvin, I like it a lot, but not very easy to find the qualified installer here in Seattle area. NW windows has tons bad reviews, Procraft dropped Marvin. I called windows and doors and more LLC, they only open Mon to Friday, not very convenient when both of us working.
Thanks in advance

In answer to your question about a class action suit -- yes, there is one, at least in the investigatory stage. It's against Pella Pro Line. I am having major leaking problems and have googled all evening, finding this thread, and the one with the class action info. Google and I am sure you will find the Chicago firm. I have used their contact info to tell them of my problem.

I was awakened by the call so was not on the top of my form, and had to ease into it, unforunately. By the end of the conversation, she was aware that our insurance company engineers were coming out, that I knew of the class action suit, and that I, myself, am an attorney (albeit retired for some years). She went from not our product -- to Iowa could overrule me.

I knew from this blog pretty much the position they would take, but still I was surprised that she conveniently forgot that they had replaced one rotten window in 2006, only remembering the glass that had been repaired in a broken seal unit.

Was it here that someone talked about the miters on the cladding not overlapping correctly? I went and checked this morning - sure enough we have some of those issues.

I need to print out this entire blog and highlight the posts which I think may apply to me, and I will keep you posted as this mess progresses. Thanks everyone.

Oh, hubby knew immediately something was funky, when the first words out of the lady's mouth was that they were going to waive the 120 or so we had to put on our cc just to get them to come out, 4 weeks ago. Like the 120 would somehow compensate for the 5,000 just spent on tearing off all the siding of the house to try to locate the problem, only to have the house sealed like a submarine and the windows still leaking. At one point she told me how nice my house was -- yah, it is probably one of a handful on the river which might be considered a show place with a 3 story bank of windows, but it won't look as nice when I paint a big sign and plop it in the yard warning others NOT to buy Pella. I have been known to do such things. I told the lady I would like to resolve this in a nice way, but a life time in consumer advocacy, has made me realize sometimes that isn't possible. You may have to eat it, but you don't have to swallow it without barfing it back at them.

Note: at the same time had all windows done in Marvin Ultimate. Gorgeous windows, no regrets so far.

Now the rot was detected 2 months after the warranty!! We will push this now that we know we are not the only ones or that there was some mistake by the builder.

We bought this company because of the name. Now I see that it is all a sham. These high priced windows will certainly cost us more than the difference to pay for a really good window like Marvin or Anderson.

By the way- I work with a window company (after buying the Pella) and I can tell you I know the typical kinds of problems in factories. I work with them all the time. I know Pella has the same issues. Poor work method and lack of quality standards to do the work. In this industry (construction) the lack of quality is amazing. It does not matter because the builders abuse the windows in the field. They sit in dirt and get walked on etc. I see damaged product leave the factory but no matter because the builder will treat it worse!! And it is easy to point the finger to the last guy to touch the window- the builder. And maybe sometimes that is the case, but surely they can design a window easy enough to install that a high school drop out could do it without fail. Pella has been doing Lean Manufacturing and Kaizen trying to copy Toyota and they did not get it right. They do not put the customer first!! When Toyota had a problem and it was not in the warranty they did the right thing for customers anyway because they know about long-term satisfaction of customers. Now with the power of the internet Pella should take notice. I will post this message everywhere I can!!

DO NOT BUY PELLA OR YOU WILL BE SORRY!!