Having sold/installed many of both, I can say that the Marvin Ultimate is a much better product than the Pella. If there were cracks and damage I'm guessing that this was due to improper handling of your windows. Gaps and or unevenness in the reveals is more likely to be an installation issue. Have you gone over these concerns with your contractor?

The windows were like this before they were removed from the shrink wrap. We are positive it is not an installation issue. The wood or clad having uneven joinings and major gapping is due to imprecise craftsmanship. The Marvin rep saw them and said most needed to be replaced. But even the replacements are the same. It's very sloppy looking inside and out, especially given the money we spent for these. Thanks.

When we built two years ago, I researched, read reviews and decided on the Marvin double hung. It was a tough sell to DH due to the cost when there were other good windows for less. It was stressed to us that they be installed correctly and luckily, our framers were meticulous in having everything leveled & straight including the installation of the windows. We have not had a single problem with any window (#20), many that have transoms, plus six atrium doors. I agree with @homesealed about talking with your contractor. It seems to me (and I certainly am no expert... or even close), the likelihood that THAT many windows are defective is unusual, AND by replacing parts of the windows, if the original problems are not corrected will be a nightmare once you are moved in. I hope you can get this fixed to your satisfaction. Good Luck!

Contact your local Marvin Distributor & ask for their Rep. & the Marvin Factory Rep. to look at these Issues.

Our builder was very disappointed in the windows. The sashes were put together incorrectly in the factory, this had no bearing on the installation. Our builder's guys have put Marvin windows in many times. The Marvin rep said they were unacceptably built and insisted the sashes be replaced. He has not been out to seen the new ones, nor has he examined the exterior, which is where the problems I just posted pictures of occur. It's incredibly frustrating to us that not a single window looks decent or well made. The mullions not fitting onto the sash consistently is also a terrible-looking issue. Uggh.

Where are the pictures?

Marvin is a solid company and will fix anything that is their problem and responsibility.

Windows on Washington--Here's the link to the photos. they're at the bottom of the post:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/build/msg0216483131210.html?3

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread w/ Photos at Bottom

Definitely some manufacturing defects in the pictures there.

I am sure they will fix them up for you.

They are a solid company in my dealings with them.

+1 on windows, I have sold quite a few Marvin products (although several years ago now) and they have always stood behind there products.

I sympathize with threeapples. I bought two new Next Generation double hung windows (one Ultimate, one traditional) for our 100 year old home. Paid premium to get them to blend with the original style. They arrived in 5 weeks, as expected, but upon installation, I realized the design was not built to spec - an obvious error, had they checked it. Contractor verified and the windows were re-ordered. Another 4-5 weeks, but this time without curtains, and with plastic and blue tape inside my home. New windows installed and looked great, two months after the original order.

However, the ultimate next generation window stuck and would not open top down. The contractor came and found a piece of debris that appeared to be the problem. Windows opened once for him and a couple of times for me. Didn't work the next time, so I placed a warranty call. Four weeks later, the tech came and adjusted a spring on the latch. Worked a couple of times after he left, then failed. Placed another warranty call. Several weeks later, the tech was able to open it, so we assumed operator error. Didn't work the next day. Placed another warranty call. Two weeks later, the tech arrived and replaced the small plastic latching piece. He said it had been manufactured wrong and was his second replacement that day. The window seems to work now, but of course it's winter. Hopefully it will work for 2017.

My second window was a next generation double hung (not ultimate). Much simpler mechanism, works fine, almost as good looking and much less expensive. However, I wanted to be able to latch it in a vented position. Contractor didn't have a good solution, so I called Marvin and was told there was no solution available. On one of the warranty calls, I brought this up again and was told which part I needed. Go figure. After numerous calls with the local vendor, I now have the parts and will be able to latch that window in a vented position.

To whoever said Marvin will make it right, that seems to be true, but it won't be quick and you should be prepared to spend a lot of time on it!

Hello all! This past April 2017, I ordered Marvin Windows.

I gave too much Information.

Thank You millworkman and oberon476 for the kind words in regards to the loss of my Godchild/Niece. Oneron476, your words of understand touched my heart, I Thank You

Holy Crap millworkman!! I will admit, I gave too much information, I feel bad for that, I do, but why are you taking it so personally? Relax...your going to give yourself a heart attack! Your on a rollercoster ride of emotions! I took it down...I got the point...don't want to give away the Da Vinci Code for Windows! It's been a rough four months, I felt the need to let it all out....I'm sorry, I took it down.

Window1, You are right, something is very strange here! Step away from the argon gas, you are hallucinating... oberon476 broke my window biography down for you. I never admitted/claimed to have noticed any kind of defect to the Windows BEFORE they were installed Nor did I say anything about the Windows being shrink wrapped! I wouldn't buy it either if I were you

oberon476, You took my situation personally also! Why? I was going to ask why you would waste any of time rewriting what I wrote into small paragraphs but, obviously, it meant that much to you..I thank you for doing that because Window1 does not understand my situation. He has totally misconstrued, if he feels that anything I said were slight details and imperfections, he really has to stay away for the installation gases because it has clouded his judgement.

I am not the type of person who expects perfection, I am not perfect, I expect mistakes along the way. I am very trusting. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I paid, by check, in full, for the Marvin Ultimate Double Hung NG, Marvin Ultimate Casement, and Marvin All Ultrex Integrity windows. I clearly did not get what I paid for. The facts are in the Certified Units, the Energy Star Labels, and the etching on the glass. I have been trying to explain this to everyone since May it is now September. Step outside the box and look in, you will understand than. I didn't intentionally mean to hit a sensitive spot on either of you I was really trying to explain my situation do to the smallest detail because giving the three things to prove someone made a mistake for four months, the impact this situation has put on me and my family...I don't want to tell. I wish you all the very best.

Sincerely, pixxie1210

Holy crap, I cannot even begin to understand your post the way it is typed. I cannot even read it. From the litle bit I can comprehend it sounds like Nassau Door anbd Window is your point of contention, that and possibly the installation. Window replacements do require interior drywall repair, spackle and painting. No one here can read the order forms or what you signed and agreed to. Pictures may help us as well. But someone signed off on the orders which included all of the sizes and specifications, period. I am sorry for your God Daughter but if ND&W did the measurements, placed the order, and arranged the install any and all discussions would be with them. Not Marvin directly, not Super Ent, not the WDWMA, not the NFRC, but no one but NW&D.

Something is very strange here. The OP comes across as someone who notices the slightest details and imperfections. Now the OP admits/ claims she noticed all kinds of defects when the windows were still in the shrink wrap BEFORE the install and yet he or she still elects to install them !!!! Im not buying it.

pixxie1210, I am truly sorry to read about your Goddaughter/niece. Clearly today you have much more on your mind other than windows. You have my deepest sympathies on your tragic loss.

Unfortunately, I was also totally lost trying to read your post, so in the interests of helping you get advice, I have taken the liberty of reposting your original broken into (hopefully) more manageable bites. No intent other than making it more readable.

I had to post as two separate entries since it is so long...

However, I do agree completely with millworkman that this problem falls squarely on whoever ordered the windows. This almost certainly has nothing to do with Marvin directly.

Hello
all!

This
past April 2017, I ordered Marvin Windows from Nassau Door and Window NY, (I
recently found a website "nassau.discovermarvin.com"
NDW is an Marvin Authorized Installing Retailer)

We visited the store on Hillside Avenue, on
several occasions, and delt with the Installed Sales Specialist & Project
Management women each time.

My
Husband and I looked at, touched, used as an example, showed her the roll down
screen on the Marvin Double Hung, she never knew was there...used as an example
even on the day of purchase, the Marvin Ultimate Double Hung NG and the Marvin
Ultimate Casement windows also talked about the integrity for the bathroom.

The
installation began on May 15/16th, the first thing I noticed is that all the
windows were too small for my MO, every window is surrounded by wood to make
the window fit the RO. The worst is the Marvin Bay Window.

My
masonry opening is 72"W x 66"H, the window placed in that opening is
66"W x 55"H! There are three ?2x4's? under this Marvin Bay window to
build height (I want to state that there is around 11" of open space above
the 66"H opening because we have beautiful brick and slate around the
masonry opening that we did not want covered by the roof of the Bay Window.

The
roof and bay window fit in the masonry opening total height is about 77"H)
and two or three ?2x4s?above the Bay Window.

There
is about 2" of foam, zig-zagged back and forth 55" from top to bottom
of each side of the Marvin Bay Window, ooozing to the exterior, past the extra
nail fin and ?2x4? nailed into the interior wall of my home..

I
have pictures...

this
Marvin Bay Window is set soo far into my home, the Wall Envelope was left open,
so it is cover with mortar...(so is the kitchen Casement and bathroom
window)..which is cracking on both sides...the left side bottom sash never met
the sill..the Contractor, E-Z Touch Home Improvement & Remodeling Inc.,
they have a Brooklyn and Middle Village, NY location,

Larry, tried opening and closing that window
10 times and still, the window never met the sill...and still doesn't!
.however, I started calling Nassau Door and Window, on May 17th, the 2nd? day
of installation, who told me to call Marvin so I called Marvin House of Windows
who told me to call Super Enterprises, the distributor of Marvin Windows for
Queens.

As I
am explaining all this, he is saying "I don't want to get involved with
this" I ask for an investigator, he says he doesn't want to be the
middle-man"..we hang up.

I
call Marvin Family of Brands..I explain all and am advised there is an
investigator.

Someone
will call me back.

GUESS
WHO CALLS!?! Mr. I don't want to get involved, don't want to be the
middle-man!!

I
have Zero confidence that this is going to go will...it takes three days for
E-Z Touch to install that Bay Window..I was hoping Mr. I don't want, would stop
all action at that time.

But,
no the Comtractor gets to finish the job.

After
they leave, I get a chance to LOOK at the windows..they are not what we
ordered!!

I
tell everyone, and I, told I have to deal with Nassau Door and Window, they
tell me I got what I ordered/paid for...

Fast
forward,,June 13th, the first Field Technician from Super Millworks comes to my
home. He talked to all except me before coming to my home to do in
Investigation, and says to me that "the Contractor told him that my
husband wanted a Bay Window this size"

I
told Home that makes no sense!

With
all Marvin takes pride in,,wide open spaces, more light with there windows,,why
would he want a small Bay window??

He
just asked if he could go upstairs to take pictures of the bedroom windows as I
am trying to show him pictures.

things
were going so fast...I couldn't keep up!

I
placed the blinds on the window sill in the Master Bedroom, explained how they
do not fit, which was so easy to see, I have to replace all blinds/shades for
every window.

I
told him. And look at all the plaster around the windows..I have to paint every
room! Super Millworks, Field Technician told me "it is normal to have to
replace the blinds and paint after a window replacement".

I
almost fell over!

Needless
to say, Super Enterprises would not give me a copy of the Technicians report, I
have to fight for it, she told me she had to ask her SV if I could have a copy.

Of
course I was not happy with the report because he said that based on what the
contractor told him and home owners pictures, the windows were installed
correctly.

I
sent the Field tech pictures and asked him where the insulation was on these
windows?

Than
on July 28th, the second Field Technician comes to my home..got the report
within days of asking for it..His report is completely different from the
first..

However,
in between the dated for the field Technicians, I am looking at the papers we
recieved from Nassau Door and Window..there is a "Unit Summary" page,
"Line Item Quotes" which is 8 pages, and the pink "ORDER"
papers that came with the Marvin Windows when the were delivered to my home, 2
pages...the address on these are for a location in Hicksville, NY..not the
address of Nassau Door and Window where I purchased them,,?

EVERY one of these have different information
on them!

I did not receive anything at all from Marvin I advise all above by the end of May...the Field Technicians tried very hard to convince me that I am wrong..however the Marvin Bay is Bare Pine...there is a combination of wood species..all the others Windows should be White Oak w/Clear Stain..all are different wood species!

I had been going on the NFRC's website, WDMA/AMS page looking for codes for windows because I know nothing about what is on any of the pages or the Energy Star Label!

I love my iPad..

I could not find a Cretified Product Code (MAR-N-425-09600-00001) for these windows on the NFRC, WDMA/AMS web page..so..I started calling every and emailing all of them, one on the Energy Star Label..NFRC, AAMA, WDMA/AMS..Ms. RS hung up on me..

no one will help me however, I did find out that 8 of the 10 windows are inactive/archived windows...(during this research, I also had my eye focused on the etching on the glass which is extremely questionable. Stated the windows were Manufactured in April)

I email the store, NDW, ask where these windows were Manufactured, i receive an email from owner/manager of Nassau Door and Window, stating that windows are manufactured in Warroad Minnesota, so I called Marvin Family of Brands in Warroad Minnesota. It was confirmed!

I was also advised the windows were also mulled together during the manufacturing by Ms. ?? who hung up on me (as did Ms. ??, I was on the WDMA website looking for the Product Certification for these windows, "no info found" but there is a contact person, Mr. ?? with a phone number..so I called!

All of a sudden I am transferred to Ms. ??!

She yells at me, telling me how she told me not to call Marvin any more as there is nothing they can do for me,,

I told Ms. ?? that is was not calling calling Marvin, I was on the phone with WDMA, Mr. ?? But..nope,,somehow there is a connection between the Window Door Manufacturing Association/ Administrative Management Systems and Marvin Family of Brands/House of Windows???

because she hung up on me when told her this and I asked her that question..)

The PCD I was looking for is MAR-N-425,,which is the Product ID# and is good, 09600, the Individual Product ID#, 00001, Solar Heat Gain Coefficient (SHGC) ID#,,they are inactive/archived. So..the Energy Proformance Ratings stated on the Energy Star Label are no longer as efficient as it states!?

Having all this information, telling EVERYONE listed above...Super Enterprises want, based on the second Field Technicians report, knowing about these windows, wants replace locks, fix balance tubes, and replace the bottom window in the bathroom because it is holding water.

I should have an Marvin All Ultrex Integrity with every seam sealed..no flexibility..

I have a vinyl window,,every seam so open which is why it's holding water, and there is a very flexible piece going across the front of the bottom window..

I sent a video to Super Enterprises and others,(,I'm in pain from spine issues,,getting hard to type,,

I'm sure you are tired of this story by now tooo lolol)showing how the seams are open and how flexible that piece is, also sent a video of the sashes/ windows rocking back and forth in the window frame..all the windows do this..

I have not recieved a response!!

I am sending more videos,,not tomorrow, tomorrow is 911,,I lost my GodDaughter/niece. Jennifer Mazzotta, she worked for Cantor Fitzgerald on the 101st floor.

I don't know for the life of me why I can't catch a break!

Ineed advise..how do I get Marvin and Nassau Door and Window to hear me!!

I was told that I am just making noise to them,,they are waiting for me to burn myself out and go away...I have a little OCD...I can never go away..

Please, someone on this page has to know what I can do...God Bless You in advance and Thank You,,thank you everyone, for taking the time to read my Marvin Window, Nassau Door and Window, E-Z Touch Home Improvements & Remodeling nightmare...I am waiting to wake up and find Beautiful Windows in my home :-)

I hope this makes sense because look at the hour...I just can not get past this...thank you all soo much

thanks again...pixxie1210

Weirdest posts ever seen on the Windows Forum. Pixxie1210's post was deleted, but before oberon476 edits his/her post(s) again, I want to point out that the post directly above mine that was submitted by the handle oberon476 has a sign-off:

"thanks again...pixxie1210"

And page up to the post by Lori Schlachter. Also signed "Sincerely, pixxie1210".

Evidently Lori Schlachter, oberon476 and pixxie1210 are the same person.

OK, this thread is hard to read. I can't tell WHAT is going on with it. There are 2 posts from Oberon but they aren't. They are long rambling stream-of-consciousness posts. And Lori Schlachter who is also pixixe1210 wrote one thing, then entirely re-wrote it, and in the re-write upthread responded to a post that came later. It's like time travel. To another dimension.

It appears both Laurie and oberon were attempting to make pixxie's illegible post somewhat readable. Since then pixxie deleted her post and several others, including mine have vanished (reported possible?)........................

Why thank you, I am generally considered offensive!!

Millworkman, No other posts were deleted but my own, by me. Sit back, scroll slowly and you will find your response to my post. I deleted my post because you, Window1, and oberon476 took my issue personally, than attacked me. I didn't know there were so many houzz Police that attack you for posting something they do not like, agree with or do not understand

I will put it in very simple terms for all the houzz police.

****The Marvin Windows I recieved are inactive/archived windows.****

If more help is needed, Please go through oberon476 post

First off I didn't attack you. I stated that the post was illegible, perhaps too strongly for you.

Secondly, nothing in your post leads me to see where the fault lies with Marvin. What exactly is "defective"? What are " inactive/archived windows"? What could be read seemed to me and I am sure others that the issue was with the order placer (and believe I know the vendor you mention and it would not be a stretch for it to have been them) and order approver (whomever signed off). If I am incorrect and the windows are "Defective" I will be the first one to aplogize.

Lori Schlachter,

You are welcome, my words per the loss of your loved one were sincere and heartfelt. you have my deepest sympathy.

Lori Schlachter,

On the other topic, I am not sure why you feel that either millworkman or I "attacked you"?

As I prefaced my reposting of your first post - "Unfortunately, I was also totally lost trying to read your post, so in the interests of helping you get advice, I have taken the liberty of reposting your original broken into (hopefully) more manageable bites. No intent other than making it more readable." - my intent was trying to help you.

As both millworkman and I suggested,there is nothing in your first post to suggest that Marvin was in any way responsible for what happened. I am not seeing anything other than Marvin was not at fault in any way for the issues with your new windows. Perhaps that isn't what you wanted to hear, and I am truly sorry if that's the case, but that's what I am seeing based on what you posted.

Per the information in your post, in my opinion, it was whoever ordered the windows who messed up, not Marvin. And once again in my opinion, those are the people who need to step up and make things right for you.

You are all bullies and you are diverting the attention to how I wrote, what I wrote and deleted, because all of you bullies attacked me for HOW I wrote NOT what I wrote.

A professional Window Manufacture or Technician would understand what I was trying to explain no matter how it was written!

Given the Product Code Number and the fact that I explained that the number is currently inactive and has been in the archives, the Professional would know how to confirm that and advise from there. It is apparent you all are not Professional Window People, you are all English Majors!

Marvin Family of Brands, Super Enterprises , and Nassau Door and Window all told me these Marvin Windows were Manufactured at Marvin Family of Brands. However, they did not advise WHEN they were Manufactured. Based on the fact that they are inactive and are in the archives, tells me they were manufactured a long time ago. The EPA, Energy Star, and NFRC to name a few, does not allow the sales of Windows that have expired.

Being inactive and in the archives, tells me the Energy Preformance is no longer as it states on the Energy Star Label.

I hope you able to understand this issue as I have made it easier for all of you to understand.

Thank You All for your advise. You have a nice day now.

Go find someone else to bullie.

Thank you

Marvin windows are made to order, no stock or archived windows, period. We brought what you typed as it was illegible, period. No bullying, period. And what your are stating now about expired windows make zero sense.

"A professional Window Manufacture or Technician would understand what I was trying to explain no matter how it was written!"

Nope. They wouldn't. They'd understand even less than the good and generous people on this thread have tried very hard to do, and spent a lot of time on to help you.

"Bullying" is the use of aggression in a repeated and habitual manner. Prerequisites can include verbal harassment, and such acts may be directed repeatedly towards particular targets. Rationalizations of such behavior is a characteristic of bullying. Lori Schlachter, the only one doing the bullying is you.

Millworkman, "We brought what I typed" what re you talking about? You work for Super Millworks/Marvin Windows I see. It seemed like that from the start. I bet you all do..that's ok. And you did attack me! Go back and read your response to me...

friedajune, ....Please....have a good day

I do not nor have I ever worked for Super Millworks/Marvin Windows. As a matter of fact I do not even sell a wood or fiberglass product and have not in several years. I still have many friends in the residential industry including people at Super Millwork and Marvin Windows, but sell 98% commercial products these days.

I did not attack you, I don't need to reread my response I am trying to help but the info you give is not enough for anyone to help you. If you want help you need to help people help you and as I stated the info you gave is either a) not enough or b) just plain incorrect.

I wish you luck in fixing your issues, I truly do but don't think it will happen with the attitude you are going with. Have a nice day, and good luck in the upcoming tropical storm.

Millworkman, so u sell 98% Vinyl products to the commercial industries..that's great..

Sadly, you did attack me. Exclamation points are a sign of excitement or to show how strongly you feel about what you are saying. Like yelling at me in with your words not your voice. However, I wish I was talking to you face to face or over the phone, much more comfortable for me that way. Whatever,,it is what it is now...

i gave too much information. All you need is the Product Code from the Energy Star Label (maybe the Licensee # too) and the websites to go on, ..there are not many people who would think to breaking down the information on the Energy Star Label as I did. I know soo much about Windows..."windows are not just windows" There are Standards that must be followed, paperwork to fill out explaining the test, name of the Lab that will do the testing, an IA to approve, for each unit that is tested, and $$$.$$ for each unit that is tested, if you are a member, you pay less than those who are not members..

The only reason I can think of for constantly attacking HOW I explained my situationand over the facts of the situation, was to distract the reader. People have a tendency to follow along, to be a part, to fit in...that's ok, my own fault for taking the chance. I should have listened to my inner voice that was totally afraid to do this at all..and not posted my situation.

I have been trying to explain, since May..before the installation was complete, that these windows are not what I ordered, than find that they are no longer an active windows, they have been in the archives for ...when realizing they told me this much info, they were not willing to tell me how long or when the Energy Performance Ratings expired.... From whom I recieved this information, you can guarantee, is with out a doubt, solid as a ROCK, reliable source!

Now don't go and focuses on the fact that I did not receive what I ordered.

The fact is that THE ENERGY PROFORMANCE RATINGS, FOR EACH WINDOW, ARE IN THE ARCHIVES..THIS HAS EXPIRED. There really is an explanation date for windows...

If you know how to find this out for yourself, do that. oberon476 has short sentences and paragraphs. Consider this as puzzle you downloaded. Have fun with it! We will call it "The Mystery of EPR for Marvin Windows" Find clues the clues in oberon476 biography...remeber, Have fun with it!

Nassau Door & Window, E-Z Touch Home Improvement & Remodeling Inc., and Super Enterprises (they distribute Marvin Windows in Queens), .. **Oh, I have to add Marvin Family of Brands also, they told me they Manufactured and Mulled the 2-Wide and the Bay Window..These windows were dumped off on me because I paid in full, by check, on April 3, 2017 when I placed the order with NDW..**can I blame them for Windows from Marvin? Maybe if I put down $200.00 and gave the balance later? I don't know...I need a good set of testicles like you millworkman.

4 months of this...I can not explain the toll this has taken in my life..as this has been nothing but back and forth..as you all have done, not seeing the facts just the nonsense in between...I can not break this down any smaller than I have! I can not move forward. I am holding the family back from moving forward...

**. reason for questioning

I never said I sell Vinyl. Maybe 2% of my sales are residential and none are vinyl. I have n dog in this hunt and was honestly only trying help. On that note my last comment is, good luck with your issues and hopefully you get the help that you need.......................

lkbum_gw

Thank You, Have a nice day