Egress Problem with city on older home

13 years ago

Hello,

We purchased a foreclosure home that was pretty gutted out by the previous owner. We are fixing it up and will eventually move in to it. Home is 1970's brick veneer, one story. Old Windows are aluminum. There are 21 windows in this house.

Here is problem we are facing with the city:

We went for inspection on our framing in kitchen and the Code Officer informed us we need to reframe windows in all 4 bedrooms as they are 46" off floor and do not meet current egress. They are not going to grandfather us in. We talked to Code Enforcement officers supervisor and he said he would require we cut brick and lower windows by 2 inches minimum if we use sliders, but we must have the 5 foot area egress on bottom portion. The windows in question are 5 seperate windows in 4 bedrooms, each one is 6 foot wide and 3 foot tall.

We had been getting estimates for replacement windows from several reputable installers locally, but everyone had assumed we would simply replace windows into size that window is now. Out of 3 installers, none has ever seen the city requiring homeowner to cut brick veneer and lower windows.

Financially this is going to mean that we are going to have to go with a lower quality window than what we originally had planned. Removing brick, reframing interior, exterior is expensive.

We are considering ordering Simonton 5500 windows from small local lumber yard. We have located 2 excellent referenced installers who could install them a few at a time. We would have to address the egress one immediately.

We are wondering if installing a Simonton 5500 Casement window that was basically 6 foot wide and 3 1/2 foot tall would meet egress? We can go slider, but am hoping to be able to go casement to reduce air leakage. It would be a casement with 2 window openings, Simonton site says they open 90 degrees.

Does this sound like a reasonable choice? Making the windows 2 feet lower for a two 3 x 5 windows is going to much more expensive and also going to look pretty bad in these rooms.

Advice? Thank you.

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Comments (10)

highport
13 years ago
Normally, the city will grandfather the existing windows. You might appeal their decision. Casements are the best choice for your windows. A 3'0" x 3'6" (twin) casement should pass egress. Simonton is a good choice, but, get quotes from different dealers & brands. DFW is a very price driven market & you should get very good pricing on windows!!!
computerklutz
Original Author
13 years ago
highport, thank you for your kind reply. Yes it would seem reasonable that we should be grandfathered in, but they have dug in their heels on this. I can go before the council to get a variance, but with so many things that need to be fixed on brought up to code on this house, I"m hesitant to make an enemy of the Code Officer and go to the city council. So we are cutting the windows down an extra 4 inches.

I have had bids for several different brands. We kind of decided on the Simontons because they are the least expensive of the group we were quoted on and our budget is out of control.

Thanks!
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rsglazing
13 years ago
Your windows do meet the egress requirements (horizontal slider 6' x 3") It sounds like your problem is the sill height. I'm in CA and the max sill height is 44". I believe that's so a child can get out easier in case of a fire. Of couse it's all up to the interpretation of the inspector. I've had some say both window size and sill height need to comply and some say just the window size.
PRO
East Bay 10
13 years ago
See if the city will compromise by allowing you to provide an interior "step up" from the finished floor to the window so it is less than the 46". I have heard of that being approved. A little additional carpentry work would far easier and less expensive than tearing out the bricks.
PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
13 years ago
Most counties will allow for a step up as they are more concerned with overall height to clear the window. Make sure that you measure from the lip of the window (i.e. where you step through) as opposed to the sill.
macv
13 years ago
First, IMHO a 44" high interior stool height for the only window in a room is not acceptable in terms of comfort and should be changed. The real problem here is the brick veneer cladding which is why I don't work on brick houses (I know that doesn't help you).

In the jurisdictions where I usually practice, you are allowed to propose a "compliance equivalent/alternative" if it is stamped by an architect or engineer. I've proposed many of these and have never been turned down. What the inspector is looking for is a way to shed responsibility for the decision.

The reason a step is not allowed is that it is too easily removed later.

But what puzzles me is how the building department would have the authority to make you meet the new code when the existing window openings meet the old code. Replacing a window "in kind" is not the same as adding a new window.

In my state grandfathering is only prohibited in the case of a "means of egress" and an "emergency escape and rescue window" is not a part of a means of egress even though many inspectors and window manufacturers use the word "egress" without realizing it is inappropriate. That is partially due to the fact that "egress" was a general term covering both exits and escape openings in the early CABO codes and when the ICC was formed out of CABO, the 2000 IRC, in order to be consistent with the basic (commercial) IBC, separated the "emergency escape & rescue opening" and "means of egress" sections but, unfortunately, used the term "egress" by mistake in one sentence of the rescue opening section. "Egress" was not corrected to "escape" until the 2009 IRC.

I faced this same problem last year but was not allowed to lower the sills because zoning the ordinance prohibited any changes to the wall because the side yard was existing-non-conforming. Apparently zoning came ahead of life safety.

That's all I can tell you without knowing want code applies.
computerklutz
Original Author
13 years ago
Hi all, first I want to thank you all for taking the time to comment. I did inquire with the Code Officer about the step, and we may be able to use that in one room. We have decided that we will just frame the windows down by 3 inches, putting us at 43 inches from floor. This puts us cutting the brick on a joint and only one row of bricks and the brick sill row.
thanks again for the help.
texasredhead
13 years ago
I too, live in the DFW metroplex. Don't know in which city you live, but I can tell you that many have review commissions. As an example, I serve on the Electrical Code Board of Review. If a home owner or business owner feel they have been, in their opinion, unfairly ruled on by a city inspector, they can bring their grievance to our city commission. We are volunteers, mainly electricians, who are appointed by the city council, and we can over rule a city inspector.
computerklutz
Original Author
13 years ago
Hi Texasredhead, thank you for letting me know about hte grievance board. I had no idea such a thing existed! So far the Code Guy has been really nice to us (house was a mess) and we went ahead and framed inside for lowering the windows by 3". We passed our framing inspection today so we now have to order windows and find a brick mason :)
Thank you for letting me know about the commision, nice to know if we really were in a jam.
brickeyee
13 years ago
It might be time to have your attorney talk with the AHJ.