I am a newbie, my interest in hydroponics began 4 weeks ago when I was given an assignment in a classes at the Community College. We were told to use what was available to us and not to go out and buy something. I did some research and decided to try and grow some vegetables using hydroponics. I built an ebb and flow system which turned out great no problems. I also built a NFT system using 2 old rain gutters to grow different varities of lettuce. I like the idea of the 5 gal buckets for individual plants what type of system are you using in those?I haven't planted tomatoes yet, I didn't have room for them. I think I'd like to use the 5 gal buckets can you e-mail me the info. donnie1354@hotmail.com

Okay, just to be clear, does CM stand for corn meal? Are we all talking about ORDINARY ground up corn, the kind you can get at the food store and very similar to the kind you can get at the feed store? Because corn does not break down and wash away. That's what chemical salts do. Ordinary agricultural corn meal in my neighborhood costs me about $6/50-pound bag. That's $2/1000 square feet. Store bought compost delivered in bulk costs me $35/cubic yard plus $40 delivery fee. At a rate of 1 cubic yard per 1,000 square feet that's $75/1000 square feet. So I can apply ordinary corn meal more than 30 times before I have spent the cost of one application of compost. I will concede that ordinary corn meal is not the highest protein value per $ (not always), but certainly it is an extremely valuable addition to your organic program. My underlying soil (call it sub soil if you have the nerve) is crushed limestone. Below that is solid limestone. Our landscape had been neglected for decades and all the soil that might have supported much turf was washed out. At first we brought in "topsoil" to bring the level up to that of the surrounding concrete walkways and curbs. We nearly broke out backs on the clods in the topsoil. For our next round of surface preparation we bought a sand-compost mix. It was pure white beach sand (from our ancient Texas beaches that are now 50 miles inland) and pig manure (fresh, hot, and very rank smelling). We all know that compost will decompose completely. That was back in 1992. Since then our sandy soil is completely black with humates and byproducts of the organic program started in 2001. In that time I applied compost once before I learned that I could not afford any organic program that relied on compost. Then I discovered ordinary corn meal, corn gluten meal, and other ground grains available to me but maybe not to you in other areas. Since 1965 I've been working on yards in Calif, Ohio, and here in San Antonio. I've never had a yard this easy to keep and that looks even remotely this nice. My California yards were more lush than most I've seen in Texas. Florida yards are unbelievable to anyone who has not seen them. Here we have trouble growing house plants that down in FL are full sized shade trees. So, all that to say that I think sandy soil is excellent. Adding ordinary corn meal will feed the microbes that are already there. ONE application of compost will bring in more microbes that may not already be there. Repeated applications of compost tea is so INexpensive that if you are of the mind to make your OWN, I will not argue. In fact I have posted a website for an acquaintance who put off posting the info on his website. If anything else could be done to improve sandy soil, I would say add clay, but that is a topic with so many paths that is way beyond my ability to track. Clay is not clay is not clay. In my previous life we used a certain type of clay as a heat shield inside jet engines, but not any other type of clay, only the clay mined from a certain mine in Massachusetts (or somewhere). I usually don't get too involved in detailed clay/sand discussions.

2008 OFFICIAL ROSE LIST SUPPLEMENT, OCTOBER, 2008 Not an Official ARS Publication Rose lists are published last day of each month. 1) Approved ARS Exhibition Name 2) IRAR / Rose Registrations. 3) Color Classification. 4) Year Introduction / Registered. 5)The " Rose" magazine column () Roses in commerce in North America (@) All-America Rose Selection "AARS" (#) Award of excellence "AOE" (VF) Roses that are Very Fragrant (**) Eligible for Dowager Queen (DQ) ROSES in capital letters are not eligible for (DQ) By Ronald Schwerdt 10-31-2008 **********MODERN ROSES********** HYBRID TEAS: (HT) Betts Christine HT, mp, 7-8-2008 Dayna Sawyer HT, pb, 7-8-2008 Eleanor Antoinette HT, w, 8-26-2008 Emina HT, 7-2-06>>>>S, 10/2006 Expressions HT, pb, 2006 Folk Magic HT, yb, 9-11-2008 George Treadgold HT, dy, 8-26-2008 Glorious Hass HT, dp, 3-19-08, 5/2008 Grandma Allison HT, op, 7-8-2008 Great Rosarians of the World HT, ab, 7/8/2008 HelenÂs Trust HT, mr, 9-11-2008 Help For Children HT, mr, 5/2008 Irma Jean HT, w, 9-10-2008 Isabel Rose Min, my, 10-13-2008 Lady Bird HT, or, 5-11-2008 Lucy Caroline HT, my, 3-19-08, 5/2008 Michelle Rosa HT, w, 3-19-08, 5/2008 Mimi Farina HT, yb, 7/8/2008 Mrs Talat Rizvi HT, ob, 12-17-007, 3/2008 Over the Moon HT, ab, 9-10-2008 Passionate Gardner HT, pb, 8-26-2008 SamanthaÂs Sargent HT, w, 8-26-2008 Sedona HT, or, 9-10-2008 Sharron with Two RÂs HT, pb, 7-8-200 Spirit of Ocean City HT, (Synonym of Canadian Sunset) Tblbeta HT, pb, 3-5-07, 4/2007 Theresa Gareffa HT, mp, 9-22-2008 Tomliz HT, pb, 8-26-2008 GRANDIFLORAS: (Gr) Ch-Ching! Gr, dy, 9-22-2008 Sheer Joy Gr, op, 9-11-2008 Sweetness Gr, m, 5-11-2008 Tombob Gr, pb, 8-26-2008 VicÂs Refrain Gr, w, >>>>>>>>>S FLORIBUNDAS: (F) Alec and Paul F, dr, 7-2-2008 Amanda Ivy F, dr, 5-11-2008 Anne Graber F, dp, 7-8-2008 Ask Maureen F, mp, 7-2-2008 Bossa Nova F, mp, 1992>>>>>>>>Pol Carol Burnett F, ab, 7-2-2008 Carol McLure F, w, 7-2-2008 Cheryl Kay F, mp, 8-13-2008 Colorific F, dr, 10-1-2008 Cracker Jack F, ob, 10-13-2008 Danielle Turner F, ab, 7-2-2008 Dear Kath F, mp, 5-11-2008 DordieÂs Rose F, ab, 5-11-2008 Easy Does It F, op, 9-10-2008 Emily Nicole F, rb, 9-11-2008 Enchanted Evening F, m, 5-11-2008 Eppi Santos Calderon F, pb, 9-10-2008 Fay Euphemia Evelyn Benson Gibson Cullen 7/2008 Florence Ethel Read F, mp, 7-22-2008 Frankish F, dy, 5-11-2008 Gladys Quine F, ob, >>>>>>>>>>>Min Fl, ob, 3/2006 Help For Children F, 11-19-07>>>>>>HT, mr, 5/2008 Jim Chown F, mp, 10-1-2008 KyraÂs Kisses F, rb, 9-10-2008 Kimberlina F, lp, 5-11-2008 Laura Elizabeth F, ly, 10-13-2008 Light My Fire F, or, 5-1`2-2008 Lily C F, yb, 10-1-2008 Love Everlasting F, dr, 10-13-2008 Margaret Turnbull F, op, 7-2-2008 Midsummersnow F, w, 9-10-2008 Molly de Balkany F, lp, 5-11-2008 Monkey Business F, ly, 9-10-2008 Peter Hood F, ob, 5-11-2008 Pumpkin Patch F, r, 9-10-2008 Samantha-Jane F, m, 7-8-2008 Samantha Jose Home F, ab, 7-2-2008 SharonÂs Smile F, dp, 10-13-2008 Smiling Claire F, op, 10-1-2008 Sweet Intoxication F, m, 9-10-2008 Taboo F, ob, 9-10-2008 Tomblu F, dr, 8-26-2008 Yvette F, pb, 5-11-2008 MINIATURES: (Min) Aydan Renee Min, m, 10-13-2008 Brenda Lee Min, yb, 10-1-2008 Cinnamon Girl Min, ob, 5-11-2008 DaddyÂs Little Girl Min, pb, 10-1-2008 Dignity 2008 Min, yb, 5-11`-2008 Holiday Inn Min, ly, 7-8-2008 Hot Pink Min, mp, 9-10-2008 Joyce Abounding Min, op, 5-11-2008 Karaoke Min, pb, 7-8-2008 Kiss An Angel Goodmorning Min, 10-13-2008 Kristin, Cl Min, rb, 3-19-08, 5/2008 GLORIA DES LAWRANCEANAS ** Min, dr, 1837 Little Alice mp, 5-11-2008 Maisy Wakefield Min, dp, 5-11-2008 Okie Dokie Min, ly, 10-13-2008 Olympic Gold Min, ly, 1983>>>>>>>>>>>>>Min Fl Party Pooper Min, pb, 10-13-2008 Peter Alonso HT, ly, 9-22-2008 Ruby Rambler Cl Min, mr, MR 12 Softee, Softee Min, pb, 5-11-2008 Sunswept Min, yb, 7-2-2008 The Phantom of the Opera Rose Min, dr, 5-11-2008 Tom Delahanty Min, pb, 5-11-2008 Touch of Gold Min, my, 10-10-2008 MINI-FLORA: (Min Fl) Ambiance Min Fl, ab, 5-11-2008 # Alison Pitt Min Fl, w, 5-11-2008 All American Girl Min Fl, mp, 9-10-2008 Baldo Villegas Min Fl, m, 10-1-2008 Blue Swade Shoos Min Fl, m, 10-1-2008 Bran New Girlfriend Min Fl, m, 9-10-2008 Coat Of Menny Colors Min Fl, ?, 9-22-2008 Cole Miners Daughter Min Fl, pb, 9-22-2008 Cooper Min Fl, mr, 9-22-2008 Deja Blu Min Fl, m, 5-11-2008 # Double Take Min Fl, rb, 5-11-2008 Flawless Min Fl, mp, 5-11-2008 Focal Point Min Fl, pb, 7-8-2008 Gem o the Rockies Min Fl, pb, 7-2-2008 Gerta Roberts Min Fl, m, 9-10-2008 Gladys Quine Min Fl, ob, 3/2006 Good Ole Mountain Dew Min Fl, m, 9-22-2008 Jim Loves Peggy w, 3-12-08, 5-2008 Joy Kathleen Min Fl, pb, 10-13-2008 Jupiter Min Fl, m, 7-8-2008 Lee Greenwood American Patriot Min Fl, m, 10-13-2008 Olympic Gold Min Fl, ly, 3/2008 Our Jeannie Min Fl, mp, 10-13-2008 Me & Mrs Jones Min Fl, lp, 9-22-2008 Moonbeam Min Fl, pb, 7-8-2008 Regina LeeÂs Sister Min Fl, temporary AEN? Shirley Raye Min Fl, yb, 9-11-2008 POLYANTHA: (Pol) Jim Delahanty Pol, lp, 7-8-2008 Bossa Nova Pol, mp, 9/2004 LARGE ÂFLOWERED CLIMBER (LCL) Moon with Tidal Waves LCl, m, 9-10-2008 NormaÂs Love LCl, mp, 10-1-2008 CLASSIC SHRUBS: HYBRID MUSKS (HMsk) DE TOUS MOIS ** HMsk, w, RIVERS MUSK CLUSTER ** HMsk, mp, SPANISH MUSK ROSE ** HMsk, w, Super Jane HMsk, mp, 5-11-2008 HYBRID RUGOSA: (HRg) Michel Trudeau Rose HRg, dp, 3-19-08 MODERN SHRUB: (S) ANNE DE BOLEYN ** S, lp, 1829 Beach Blanket S, dp, 9-10-2008 Bubblicious S, lp, 9-10-2008 Candy Oh! Vivid red S, dr, 8-26-2008 Dorothy Ives S, dp, 9-10-2008 Dorrance Hill Hamilton S, yb, 8-13-2008 Deana S, yb, 5-11-2008 Emina S, rb, 10/2006 Evaly Jane S, dp, 9-11-2008 FUN JWAN LO ** S, w, GROSSE MOHNKOPFS ROSE ** S, dp, Indian Love Call S, mp, 5-11-2008 JAUNE BICOLOR ** S, yb, 1633 PINNATIFIDE ** S, mp, PREMIER ** S, w, 1866 RichardÂs Rose S, mp, 7-8-2008 Roisin Ruddle S, ob, 2004>>>>Ron Ruddle Splendid! S, pb, 5-11-2008 STRIATA ** S, rb, The Window of the South S, dp, 5-11-2008 Tomblak S, dr, 9-10-2008 Tomlav S, m, 8-26-2008 Tomopel S, pb, 9-10-2008 Tomton S, pb, 8-26-2008 TURNEPS ** S, dp, VicÂs Refrain S, w, 1-27-08, 5/2008 WAITZIANA ** S, dp HYBRID GIGANTEA (HG) Sir George Watt HG, ly, 5-11-2008 Sir Henry Collett HG, w, 5-11-2008 Tangkul Treasure HG, w, 5-12-2008 *************Old Garden Roses*********** BOURBON & CL. BOURBON: (B &Cl B Kit Delahanty ** B, dp, 5-11-2008 China & Climbing China: (Ch & Cl Ch) BermudaÂs Emmie Gray Ch, rb, (Found Rose) MOSS AND CLIMBING MOSS (M & Cl M) Jon Singer M, m, 9-11-2008

2008 OFFICIAL ROSE LIST SUPPLEMENT, NOV. 2008 Not an Official ARS Publication Rose lists are published last day of each month. 1) Approved ARS Exhibition Name 2) IRAR / Rose Registrations. 3) Color Classification. 4) Year Introduction / Registered. 5)" Rose" magazine column () Roses in commerce in North America (@) All-America Rose Selection "AARS" (#) Award of excellence "AOE" (VF) Roses that are Very Fragrant (**) Eligible for Dowager Queen (DQ ROSES in capital letters are not eligible for (DQ) By Ronald Schwerdt 11-30-2008 **********MODERN ROSES********** HYBRID TEAS: (HT) Betts Christine HT, mp, 7-8-2008 Buckwheat HT, ob, 11-17-08 Dayna Sawyer HT, pb, 7-8-2008 Eleanor Antoinette HT, w, 8-26-2008 Emina HT, 7-2-06>>>>S, 10/2006 Expressions HT, pb, 2006 Folk Magic HT, yb, 9-11-2008 George Treadgold HT, dy, 8-26-2008 Glorious Hass HT, dp, 3-19-08, 5/2008 Grandma Allison HT, op, 7-8-2008 Great Rosarians of the World HT, ab, 7/8/2008 HelenÂs Trust HT, mr, 9-11-2008 Help For Children HT, mr, 5/2008 Irma Jean HT, w, 9-10-2008 Lady Bird HT, or, 5-11-2008 Lucy Caroline HT, my, 3-19-08, 5/2008 Michelle Rosa HT, w, 3-19-08, 5/2008 Mimi Farina HT, yb, 7/8/2008 Mrs Talat Rizvi HT, ob, 12-17-007, 3/2008 Over the Moon HT, ab, 9-10-2008 Passionate Gardner HT, pb, 8-26-2008 SamanthaÂs Sargent HT, w, 8-26-2008 Sedona HT, or, 9-10-2008 Sharron with Two RÂs HT, pb, 7-8-200 Spirit of Ocean City HT, (Synonym of Canadian Sunset) Tblbeta HT, pb, 3-5-07, 4/2007 Theresa Gareffa HT, mp, 9-22-2008 Tomliz HT, pb, 8-26-2008 GRANDIFLORAS: (Gr) Ch-Ching! Gr, dy, 9-22-2008 Sheer Joy Gr, op, 9-11-2008 Sweetness Gr, m, 5-11-2008 Tombob Gr, pb, 8-26-2008 VicÂs Refrain Gr, w, >>>>>>>>>S FLORIBUNDAS: (F) A Brighter VISTA F, ob, 11-17-08 Alec and Paul F, dr, 7-2-2008 Allen Phillips F, ly, 11-17-08 Amanda Ivy F, dr, 5-11-2008 Anne Graber F, dp, 7-8-2008 Ask Maureen F, mp, 7-2-2008 Bossa Nova F, mp, 1992>>>>>>>>Pol Carol Burnett F, ab, 7-2-2008 Carol McLure F, w, 7-2-2008 Cheryl Kay F, mp, 8-13-2008 Danielle Turner F, ab, 7-2-2008 Dear Kath F, mp, 5-11-2008 DordieÂs Rose F, ab, 5-11-2008 Drop Dead Red F, dr, 11-17-08 Easy Does It F, op, 9-10-2008 Elise Ducret F, mr, 11-17-08 Emily Nicole F, rb, 9-11-2008 Enchanted Evening F, m, 5-11-2008 Enduring Love F, my, 11-17-08 Eppi Santos Calderon F, pb, 9-10-2008 Fay Euphemia Evelyn Benson Gibson Cullen 7/2008 Florence Ethel Read F, mp, 7-22-2008 Frankish F, dy, 5-11-2008 Geroysun F, m, 11-17-08 Gladys Quine F, ob, >>>>>>>>>>>Min Fl, ob, 3/2006 Gwen Broadley W, 11-17-08 Help For Children F, 11-19-07>>>>>>HT, mr, 5/2008 KyraÂs Kisses F, rb, 9-10-2008 Kimberlina F, lp, 5-11-2008 Kitty Wells F, pb, 11-17-08 Lady B F, mp, 11-17-08 Light My Fire F, or, 5-1`2-2008 Lorna Elizabeth F, pb, 11-17-08 Margaret Turnbull F, op, 7-2-2008 Midsummersnow F, w, 9-10-2008 Molly de Balkany F, lp, 5-11-2008 Monkey Business F, ly, 9-10-2008 Norfolk Glory F, ob, 11-17-08 Peter Hood F, ob, 5-11-2008 Remembering Roslyn F, my, 11-17-08 Pumpkin Patch F, r, 9-10-2008 Samantha-Jane F, m, 7-8-2008 Samantha Jose Home F, ab, 7-2-2008 Sweet Intoxication F, m, 9-10-2008 Taboo F, ob, 9-10-2008 Teenage Sprit F, mp, 11-17-08 The Surgeon F, m, 11-17-08 Tomblu F, dr, 8-26-2008 Yvette F, pb, 5-11-2008 MINIATURES: (Min) Cinnamon Girl Min, ob, 5-11-2008 Dignity 2008 Min, yb, 5-11-2008 Eternal Flame Min, yb, 11-17-08 Holiday Inn Min, ly, 7-8-2008 Hot Pink Min, mp, 9-10-2008 Joyce Abounding Min, op, 5-11-2008 Karaoke Min, pb, 7-8-2008 Kristin, Cl Min, rb, 3-19-08, 5/2008 GLORIA DES LAWRANCEANAS ** Min, dr, 1837 Little Alice mp, 5-11-2008 Little Jimmy Dickens Min, mr, 11-17-08 Maddie Kate Min, pb, 11-17-08 Maisy Wakefield Min, dp, 5-11-2008 Olympic Gold Min, ly, 1983>>>>>>>>>>>>>Min Fl Peter Alonso HT, ly, 9-22-2008 Ruby Rambler Cl Min, mr, MR 12 Softee, Softee Min, pb, 5-11-2008 Sunswept Min, yb, 7-2-2008 The Phantom of the Opera Rose Min, dr, 5-11-2008 Tom Delahanty Min, pb, 5-11-2008 MINI-FLORA: (Min Fl) Ambiance Min Fl, ab, 5-11-2008 # Alison Pitt Min Fl, w, 5-11-2008 All American Girl Min Fl, mp, 9-10-2008 Bran New Girlfriend Min Fl, m, 9-10-2008 Coat Of Menny Colors Min Fl, ?, 9-22-2008 Cole Miners Daughter Min Fl, pb, 9-22-2008 Cooper Min Fl, mr, 9-22-2008 Deja Blu Min Fl, m, 5-11-2008 # Double Take Min Fl, rb, 5-11-2008 Flawless Min Fl, mp, 5-11-2008 Focal Point Min Fl, pb, 7-8-2008 Gem o the Rockies Min Fl, pb, 7-2-2008 Gerta Roberts Min Fl, m, 9-10-2008 Gladys Quine Min Fl, ob, 3/2006 Good Ole Mountain Dew Min Fl, m, 9-22-2008 Hurricane Min Fl, yb, 11-17-08 Jim Loves Peggy w, 3-12-08, 5-2008 Jupiter Min Fl, m, 7-8-2008 Kristen Jennifer Min Fl, pb, 11-17-08 Olympic Gold Min Fl, ly, 3/2008 Me & Mrs Jones Min Fl, lp, 9-22-2008 Moonbeam Min Fl, pb, 7-8-2008 Regina LeeÂs Sister Min Fl, temporary AEN? Renegade Min, rb, 11-17-08 Shirley Raye Min Fl, yb, 9-11-2008 POLYANTHA: (Pol) Jim Delahanty Pol, lp, 7-8-2008 Bossa Nova Pol, mp, 9/2004 LARGE ÂFLOWERED CLIMBER (LCL) Moon With Tidal Waves LCl, m, 9-10-2008 HYBRID WICHURANA (HWich) MelÂs Heritage HWich, ab, 11-17-08 CLASSIC SHRUBS: HYBRID MUSKS (HMsk) DE TOUS MOIS ** HMsk, w, RIVERS MUSK CLUSTER ** HMsk, mp, SPANISH MUSK ROSE ** HMsk, w, Super Jane HMsk, mp, 5-11-2008 HYBRID RUGOSA: (HRg) Michel Trudeau Rose HRg, dp, 3-19-08 MODERN SHRUB: (S) ANNE DE BOLEYN ** S, lp, 1829 Beach Blanket S, dp, 9-10-2008 Bubblicious S, lp, 9-10-2008 Candy Oh! Vivid red S, dr, 8-26-2008 Dorothy Ives S, dp, 9-10-2008 Dorrance Hill Hamilton S, yb, 8-13-2008 Deana S, yb, 5-11-2008 Emina S, rb, 10/2006 Evaly Jane S, dp, 9-11-2008 FUN JWAN LO ** S, w, GROSSE MOHNKOPFS ROSE ** S, dp, Indian Love Call S, mp, 5-11-2008 JAUNE BICOLOR ** S, yb, 1633 PINNATIFIDE ** S, mp, PREMIER ** S, w, 1866 RichardÂs Rose S, mp, 7-8-2008 Roisin Ruddle S, ob, 2004>>>>Ron Ruddle Splendid! S, pb, 5-11-2008 STRIATA ** S, rb, The Charlatan S, lp, 11-17-08 The Window of the South S, dp, 5-11-2008 Tomblak S, dr, 9-10-2008 Tomlav S, m, 8-26-2008 Tomopel S, pb, 9-10-2008 Tomton S, pb, 8-26-2008 TURNEPS ** S, dp, VicÂs Refrain S, w, 1-27-08, 5/2008 WAITZIANA ** S, dp HYBRID GIGANTEA (HG) Sir George Watt HG, ly, 5-11-2008 Sir Henry Collett HG, w, 5-11-2008 Tangkul Treasure HG, w, 5-12-2008 *************Old Garden Roses*********** BOURBON & CL. BOURBON: (B &Cl B Kit Delahanty ** B, dp, 5-11-2008 China & Climbing China: (Ch & Cl Ch) BermudaÂs Emmie Gray Ch, rb, (Found Rose) MOSS AND CLIMBING MOSS (M & Cl M) Jon Singer M, m, 9-11-2008