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My DH collects albums, CDs, and now MP3s. He has thousands of LPs and has them lovingly organized alphabetically. He built two large shelves for them, and they live in our spare bedroom. He does listen to them. I feel he gets so much enjoyment out of having them (and has no other vices!) that he has a right to keep them. And although I'm not a collecting kind of person, I also kind of like having so much music available -- and a lot of his LPs aren't available on CD. We've toyed with the idea of putting in some built-in type shelves for them, but the way they are situated at the moment is fairly neat and not in our way at all. There are lots of collectors out there, as minet discovered. You'd be surprised what kinds of things people will pay good money for. Some audiophiles feel vinyl sounds better than digital. Separating the record from the cover or cutting the cover up would be sacrilege to them! Even if they never actually listen to the record, they just want to HAVE it. Just thought I'd throw this out there, FYI.

As Sircuts@freeshell.org has already pointed out, I too can think of dozens of reasons why bending copper pipe is not a good solution. It has been mentioned that the inner wall friction of a bend is less than a fitting, which is true of factory made long radius bends where the pipe is bent in specially designed jigs prior to the tempering process but such is not the case when field bending copper. First of all it should be thoroughly understood that no bend in copper pipe should have a radius less than 10 times the pipe diameter. (Many local codes limit bends to a minimum radius of 20 x pipe diameter). When pipe is bent in the field two conditions happen that ultimately weaken the pipe. On the inside of the radius the pipe is compressed resulting in crosswise ridges similar to those on a corrugated pipe. (I appologize in advance if my description offends anyones sensibilities) When a pipe is field bent the outer curve of the radius is stretched leaving microscopic stretch marks similar to those seen on a womans stomach after a tough pregnancy. This also results in seriously weaking the pipe wall. We are then confronted with an increase in turbulance from the inner ridges reacting against the weakened outer wall and the end result is premature pipe wall erosion thus while a factory formed long radius bend will reduce line friction a field bend actually has much more friction problems than what would be seen with a fitting. While bending pipe may appear like a simple task ask any electrician who runs EMT and they will tell you first hand that bending pipe is not nearly as easy as it might look. There is a small loss of linear footage when forming a bend and when making back to back bends on the same piece of pipe it can be rather tricky to compute the necessary lenths to compensate. Obviously the interest expressed in bending copper pipe is a result of the reluctance on the part of homeowners or DIY'ers to solder but I am sure that Sircuts and Brickeye will agree with me that in the hands of an experienced plumber soldering joints can be made much quicker than figuring out the layout of bending pipe for a tight application. In fact, with a bit of practice you will find that soldering is easy and nearly as fast as fitting and glueing CPVC or PVC pipe. To answer Shw001's question, if you are working in a really tight location it is doubtful that you will have the necessary clearances to get the minimal radius for your bends. Although I would certainly explore all the other options first, understanding that you only need a short two foot section you might find it much easier to use a corrugated copper flexible water heater connector to go around the obstruction however this should only be done providing the work will be in a non-concealed location.

Wow, Kelly you have definately been around the block. It is hard for me to put down a full list of my qualifications without including some of my brothers as well. Being as he has been in this business longer than myself. He (my brother) started cleaning pools back in 1986 working for a local company BRB. After high school he continued to clean pools but started his own company and his own routes. Over the next few years after that he ventured into service and repair side. He eventually sold his cleaning company and went to work for a commercial water management company as a service tec. While in commercial pool repair and water management he started building pools for some of the Execs of the company he worked for. Then for some of their clients and so on. From this is where our company started. I came into the picture in 1995 after going into the army and then to college (computer science degree go figure). Since 1995 we have taken a primarily commercial pool service company and created multiple divisions to serve all aspects of the pool industry. From pool residentual pool cleaning to complete nautatorium construction. Over the years we have both become certified or licenced in different areas of the field. I personally am a licenced plumber, a CPO, CPI, Certified diver, Tec II certified and licenced general contractor. He (my brother) has all the same quailifications except he is not a licenced plumber but a licenced electrician instead. We as a company are a warranty station for Raypak, Pentair, Hayward, and Zodiac(Jandy,Polaris ect.) as well. We have found the the more pools we build the more we want to be prepared for the time when this industry is regulated here in Texas. Most of our quaifications were needed to serve the commercial side of our company but you can see how beneficial these are to have on the residential side as well. We are not a high end builder even though we venture into the occasional $500,000 residentual pool. But more of a mid range builder. I drive by companies everyday that have these signs up (Build this pool $17,995). Has anyone heard of the bait and switch con game. This is it in its purest form. Can they build a pool for $18K, yes but you are going to get the worst equiptment, decking that will fall apart within a few years (if it even lasts that long) because there is not rebar in it but in some cases a chicken wire instead or its only 2" thick(yes I have seen this). I have even seen thinwall piping used instead of schedule 40 (I am busting up a deck right now to replace all the plumbing around a pool because of this). How about 1/2" thick flagstone coping(who the builder said this how all builders do it). This is only the beginning. I could go on and on and on. I have no problem with anyone coming into this business and starting a (legitimate) company but I am very, very picky when it comes to the quality that I see in the finished product and I will point out poor quality in material or workmanship whenever I see it done by anyone including my own guys(who all know what its like to rip it out and do it again because I didn't like it). I don't claim to be an expert in anything I mean I think that I just about learn something new everyday in this field. I still take some of my inspiration from other companies builds or designs. Even you Kelly. lol. Love some of your recent designs by the way. This all being said I take this business very serious. Not only is this my career but this is my entire families bread and butter. If I don't succeed then I have to answer to them. Sorry for the rambling on, David