At our house, the fact that we eat more fresh produce when we grow it is priceless. Definitely an excellent ROI, in wall street terms, and ROH (return on health.) The physical labor involved and the increased intake of "good for you" combined with the fact that we didn't and won't spray any kind of stuff on all of that food is an exponential benefit. Not all of the seeds we buy will end up yielding something to eat. But even when you add the cost of seeds you buy that produce nothing to eat, there has always been a financial gain in overall money saved at the grocery store. Critters of various types end up killing some plants or ruining some produce, but if I start sprayin stuff, there goes the money I was going to save. If I'm going to eat produce that's been sprayed, it's probably better if it's been done professionally and not by me, clueless about 'cides. So it makes more sense to me to save the trouble of all of the extra mosquito bites I would get doing it, the cost of the spray, and the need to become educated about using 'cides which I am growing produce to avoid. I think it's better to let the birds eat the bugs they can find, attract beneficials (that don't end up getting 'cided also) to handle the bad guys better next time. When the failed plants are put in the compost pile, they make a last contribution to the food chain. Growing food that you would have otherwise paid for is a no-brainer to me. One is already paying for the space, makes a lot more sense to get something of value from it than to have just more grass that costs more money to mow. Veggies don't have to be grown in ugly rows, or huge dedicated squares and rectangles. If you mix them in with flowers, it just looks like more leaves. It's also easier and so much more yummy to pick tomatoes, cukes, zukes, etc... off of a chain link fence than to weed-wack the fence all summer. Veggies just blend into the landscape, except corn. Monocultures are also more vulnerable to pests and diseases, so spreading your produce - tomatoes especially - throughout the yard instead of all in a row can make the difference of even getting something vs. nothing. This is also (insert number of spread-out plants) times more likely to attract beneficials who look for pests on certain plants. Like the clich� about putting all of your eggs in one basket. If you get one bell pepper from a bought plant, you're probably already ahead financially. Same with a pack of cantaloupe or watermelon seeds. And what kid wouldn't prefer to grow a pumpkin ($1 for seeds) over buying one (starting at $5.) Cha-ching. Lettuce and spinach was really great this year! We're not real into salad, but we ended up eating some lettuce almost every day since all I had to do was go outside and pick exactly the amount we wanted. Often when I buy lettuce or spinach, most of it goes bad. I've never understood why they only sell such big bags of spinach, or a whole head of...

Outsmarting the tree rats (squirrels) around my house is a full time job. This past spring I hit on a new idea. When I plant a container I invert an empty wire hanging basket over the container and the plant gets sun and can be watered but the squirrels can't dig in it. Another idea: I bring in a lot of plants to "over winter" under lights in my garage. I have so many that it is hard to reach my hand under the lights (4 shop lights) to the middle for watering. So I bought a pump sprayer with a long wand and it works great! In late winter I add a little liquid Dawn detergent, few drops, to each gallon of water and not only does the soil get wet easier but the worms that are waiting to hatch into distructive pets just don't hatch. Don't know what it costs me to run those four shop lights all winter but I don't care. It is a small price to pay to be able to "garden" every weekend in the garage. Many people have mentioned that they mark their outdoor plants with a "permanent Sharpie". In my experience there isn't a "permanent Sharpie", they all fade and quickly too. A grease pencil/china marker or expensive "no fade" garden center marker are the only markers I have found that won't disappoint you by fading. Eight years ago I decided to learn about gardening so I tapped into my local library. I checked out nearly every book they had on gardening and learned so much. The Gardenweb forums are also a wealth of information and entertainment. There is always something new to learn and I appreciate all of you who take the time to write in your ideas. One last idea from me...I keep a small notebook on my computer table and jot down any idea I find that's new and I will want to try. Little pieces of paper get lost but I always know where my notebook is and also use it when I order "on line" so I will remember the name of the company and the order date. Tina or Trowelgal

Tom, "John, are you using the white bags? I'd be concerned about the dyes and chemicals in the other colors.... " Good point. Heres what they (Greenbag Inc) say... "Is made from non-toxic, non-corrosive materials and safe color-fast dyes". I'm interested in these for several reasons, drainage, cooling and cost. I know they drain well, I don't think you could ever fill one with a garden hose. The upside down tomato bag I tried last spring stayed cool and it was black. The ones from Publix are a buck and I hear W mart's are cheaper. So I'll give it a try. john

heather_on - your husband and I would make quite the pair at the grocery store checking dates. It seems that many of the same customers seem to frequent the larger chains at the same time and I have been asked to check for later dates for a few others as I am already bent over or on my knees reaching for the back. Picking out apples is also a thrill. Heck, I even check the expiry date on my beloved little bottles of Coca-Cola (I don't like flat Coke). These days with perishables travelling from the main plant to central distribution to general distribution for X store and then to X's various locations and then of course sitting in the aisles while staff often (sad to say) go to lunch - well that can really affect the best before date - as in a product has often turned by the next day, even though dated 2 weeks in advance. I carry ice packs in the car - in a cooler and only shop on the way home. We do not eat much in the way of canned or packaged goods so I have to be very careful - especially with meat, milk, eggs and my husband's yogourt. Actually at a well known Ontario food store I saw yogourt and eggs on the shelf dated best before Feb. 1 - and this was in late April. I have returned chicken breasts (free from) dated 1 1/2 weeks in advance that were bad day one. I only buy meat from a butcher now. I need organic milk - and I prefer Organic Meadow or Harmony. If I wanted to buy Neilson, Natrel or PC Organics (double UHTd) I would - so I go elsewhere for it. Then there is a small fruit and vegetable store where they will chop up a squash or melon for you - as you wait - at no cost. I will not buy bagged salads since I have found that despite the date the leaves are often "wet" - and I do know something about how they are kept "fresher". I avoid any foods made in China (this is hard since often the product comes from China (or one of its "affiliates") but is packaged in Canada in something larger than the product itself. Then there is Mexico. Certainly products grown in Ontario can be contaminated but I do try. In Canada we do not have all of the coupons that Americans have and we pay a fortune for dairy, meat, eggs and butter (good thing I don't buy butter - husband almost fainted in shock when I presented him with a free pound of butter given to me by Sobeys based on my purchases). I do go through a lot of olive oil - too much, truthfully.