I'm confused...

It seems you are complaining about their mother not doing anything for them, like getting them up, making their lunch or cleaning the house. Then you say they are unmotivated. Who has ever motivated them? Their parents have been divorced for 5 years, so DAD was there until they were preteens. They should have been taught by then to get themselves up, make their own lunch and clean the house. Mom may be lazy but what did Dad do to teach his boys to be young men? (same goes for their atrocious table manners... something that should have been taught to them as youngsters and if Dad allowed them to eat like animals, he has to accept his portion of the blame)

The glazed over look in their eyes is indicative of teens in general... they may not be listening. Don't forget, teens know EVERYTHING and parent's know NOTHING. Not all kids are college material. Not all kids that go to college are successful. Not all kids that drop out of school become failures. Working at menial jobs does not have to be a life long career... but it does teach many valuable life lessons. Occasionally, menial jobs lead to better opportunities and the key is to find the right path for the child.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion so share your opinion with your husband and let him worry about whether there is going to be a train wreck. It's HIS train wreck, not yours. I would never tell anyone to stop caring, but acknowledge that it's NOT your problem to worry about.

Hi Caphillsm, and welcome to the forum!

I do hear you about your SS's lack of motivation, and it sounds like you blame a big part of that on his mom's 'laid back' attitudes and habits. (I'm not disagreeing or pointing fingers -- just observing.) Teen boys who are allowed to veg out and play video games all day are inclined to veg out and play video games all day, neglecting such unpleasant chores as schoolwork and college essays, and such frightening and uncomfortable territory as planning for the future. Argh!

I have an 18 y.o. bio-son, and we faced some of those same issues with him -- though we dealt with them much earlier and with a firmer hand. And fortunately for all concerned, that was the ONE area where his father (a.k.a. 'Evil Ex') and I were in substantial agreement. We essentially forced him to choose an activity (which he ended up liking and excelling at), and restricted his computer gaming time. We also 'dogged him' through the entire college application process, including multiple rounds of SATs and ACTs, and bringing him to visit colleges we thought would be good. He was accepted into his second choice school (my first choice), and after his first semester there, he's doing great (Dean's List) and loves college. He's even charged up about becoming a surgeon down the road, and is on track to make it happen.

So it can be done. But not overnight. And unfortunately, time is not on your side for good four-year schools on the 'traditional' college timeline.

What about planning a 'Gap Year'? Can you maybe arrange a year's worth of internships, travel and volunteer opportunities whereby he might discover some ideas on what he wants to do with his life, and what college can contribute to his future? A good Gap Year can also make him a much more attractive applicant next year, and gives you all another full year to get his test scores up and his essay honed.

AND it will avoid wasting your money on a school he's not committed to, and avoid setting him up for failure because he just doesn't care. My two cents' says it's worse to do poorly in junior college than to not go for a year and do something else that is productive. (Not to dis junior college; for many, it's a great way to get your basics done and get back into school. But for unmotivated 18 y.o. drifters? Not so much...)

Yeah - it will all work out. (But not necessarily for the best.) I'd try to pin down Hubby about either a Gap Year or some other productive plan that will get Jr. motivated. Too many teens end up drifting and doing not much of anything because they don't know what to do. Heading off purposely in some positive direction almost always moves you forward. Sure, you may have to 'sidestep' a bit if you change course dramatically (say from science to performing arts), but you rarely have to start from scratch. And if he is allowed to waste the next year, 12 months from now, 'scratch' is just where he'll be.

they sound somewhat typical for their age, plenty of 17-year-olds don't date and it is a positive thing, he is an average student, it is normal as well, not everybody is academically inclined,

she doesn't pack their lunches, so what, plenty of people don't, she does not date, nothing wrong with that. she is not clean and is lazy, it is not your business how she conducts her home. you don't even know her.

his favorite class is cooking-he might go into cooking career, wonderful job! he is not into sports, so what, i hated sports yet am successful individual. he did poorly on SAT, that's why he could take it unlimited number of times, so he can improve.

i think because you don't have children you expect something that just not the case. he has no interest in girls could mean him not being mature enough, having different inetrests or even being gay. and most teens if allowed would play video games all day long. lol

eating like animals is gross, but they had to be taught by both mom and DAD, and if mom is that bad why does she have full custody not their dad? something does not add up. maybe she is not up to your standard, but she does not have to be

This is great feedback, thanks to all of you! I agree that his DAD is responsible for many things, including table manners. Unfortunately, his ability was limited as he has been serving our country in the military and lived all over the world. Living on bases is hard enough, and worse when the marriage is failing. Yes, he should have spent more time on etiquette. But he was leading troops. My mom taught us table manners and proper behaviour. But I definitely agree that DH should have been more involved in that. And even now, he should try to make up for lost time. I dont think I should be the one correcting these things.

Yeah, I guess I need to understand that everyone has different standards. All kids arent college material. Wow, it was drilled into me from day one, I can hardly imagine otherwise, but I have to just accept that. We never played games. We did homework.

I guess he will just find his way and I need to not worry about it and focus on other things. I fear that pointing it out to DH will make him feel bad.

We just had dinner. (I corrected the shoveling of the food off his plate). He actually said at dinner that he "would like to get paid for loafing around". I really think he believes that. I just cannot relate.

But this advice is really helpful. I agree that cooking would be a WONDERFUL career. Problem is he HATES anything healthy. He eats about 3 things. and I dont cater to those things.

Finedreams: I agree that there is nothing wrong with all those things, BUT, shouldnt there be SOMETHING that he does? Shouldnt there be SOME interesting in SOMETHING? A tiny bit of a plan of some sort?

I just havent seen drifting at this level. Sweeby: thanks for the "Gap Year" idea. I am definitely going to mention this to DH. I appreciate it!

if he is not academically inclined, he might work for a year after school and then decide, some 17-year-olds are not mature enough to know. a year just working could be fine for kids like that. or he might start with general courses and then decide.

he might need counseling, career counseling, maybe dad could go talk to school counselor.

community college is a fine choice, plus it is cheap. child support ends but dad can still help with college.

share your views but let mom and dad guide him. I know how you feel, I would probably feel this way too but blaming the mother is not productive and accomplishes nothing. it just sounds judgmental. and i actually commend her for not dating and bringing different men into minor children's lives. but then again she might be dating but not dragging them to kids lives, is commendable as well.

unfortunately life just does not work this way, things just aren't perfect. and our way is not always the best way, it is just the only way we know. let mom and dad decide and guide their children, support your husband's decisions.

Also, to add age 17-20 is really not an easy time for most boys. My son had no clue what he wanted to do at 17-He's smart but was really lazy his Sr year in high school with regards to schoolwork. He did get a scholarship for year one then just blew it partying.

There is a LOT of social pressure in high school too. DS had his first serious GF in high school, had a close friend commit suicide, worked 30 hours a week (cause he had to pay his car insurance & gas). What I'm saying is kids go through so many major events their high school years.

Honestly because both parents are involved with your steps I think you would end up with a closer relationship if you approached as a friend rather than someone harping on him regarding college, eating habits whatever. Your setting yourself up to be the baddie & may alienate SS and make him really uncomfortable coming to visit.

I know how hard it is I have 3 SS and a very strained realtionship with my middle SS. Even though I tried & mostly did butt out of parenting sometimes you get sucked in.

My youngest SS had no desire to drive at all-DH finally made him get his license when he was about to turn 18. He now drives truck over the road for a living. No college-his choice but he earns a very fine living.

Try to chill, Gap year is a good idea. With DS his grades were so awful the semester of college that I had him drop all his classes, work for the next 9 months and re enrolled him elsewhere and started over. That year made all the difference in his maturity and ability to knuckle down and get the work done.

"We just had dinner. (I corrected the shoveling of the food off his plate). He actually said at dinner that he "would like to get paid for loafing around"."

This made me LOL! this sounds EXACTLY like something my DS would have said at that age! Another good one was "I can't wait til I'm 18 & can do whatever I want and not listen to anybody!

This too shall pass. Let your DH deal with this stuff and save yourself the stress.

~Cat

Cat and Finedreams: thank so much. Your respondes are very helpful.

Cat: I read your part about all the events your SS experienced in the HS years. The difference is, my SS hasnt had any events. No GF, no driving, no major traumas, no clubs, sports, trips, nothing. I cannot point to anything except him actually going to school and coming home each day. Maybe that isnt a bad thing at all, its just very "flat". He doesnt cast his net wide, and maybe he just feels safer that way.

When we watch a movie at home, he leaves the room if a man and woman are in any way romantic (I am talking PG-13 level movies). And he hates team sports. I am NOT saying this means anything is "wrong", but I find it curious. I am privately doing a little research about teens and sexuality. Maybe he is gay and needs to talk about it. When being gay comes up in our home, I always underscore that its totally ok to be gay. I am not saying he is or isnt, but it has crossed my mind. I know that he needs a safe environment for that discussion. DH is unlikely to be able to have this kind of conversation.

Finedreams: I am in agreement with your point about community college. It is a fine way to explore what he wants to do. We have already offered to pay for it. Problem is, since he cant drive (and doesnt want to) I have no idea how he is actually going to get there. I went online and found out that they do not have on campus housing.

This morning I chatted with DH about SS1's table manners. Last night even SS2 was criticising him about it. I told DH that SS2 and I should not have to be the ones constantly remind him. DH agreed, and said he will have a private conversation with him about it. Honestly though, I dont think he cares. The only place he eats at a table is out our home, so the easy way around the manners issue is to just not come to our place anymore. Right?

When he graduates this June, he is no longer obliged under the Divorce Decree to visit DH every other weekend. What do you think will happen then?

I'm surprised the HS has not geared/guided the oldest SS on college, university, career schools ect. In my town the schools start stearing the students the end of their sophmore year. They can begin prep classes earning college credits their junior year and the school also has a work program for the seniors (rather mini-apprentice)

I'm curious if you have ever walked into a teen friendly eating establishment? Scary sight watching teens eat. Most of them I'm sure you manners and proper methods. Reality, they'd look like jerks eating there like mother taught them when the rest of the teens are not. But with your SSs I'm not sure they've actually been taught or that the lessons have been reenforced. In your case, I'd offer proper by example and gentle encouragement, don't nag and totally be critical, the goal is to teach and encourage, not push the young man away.

With the community college and travel, what public transport is there? My local CC has several outlets plus the mother school with buses running the routes regural. In my case, if I could get him to the edge of the city, my child would then be able to get him/herself anywhere he needed going and back to later be picked up at drop off point. I live 15 miles outside the city in a small rural village (by choice, great to leave the city behind).

On the gay issue, I'm pleased you are very open to that and preparing yourself with research/education, but I'm not sure you should bring the topic up with the SS on your own out of the blue. This could be a very personal topic with the SS and until or unless he would come to you for discussion, I don't think you should spring the discussion on him. Remember your goal should be positive and supportive.

Agreed. I am NOT planning to bring up the gay issue unless he brings it up. I am only trying to create an atmosphere that makes him feel safe IF he ever brings it up. I doubt that will ever happen. I am sure that SS would be concerned about DH's reaction. I am just doing some reading to understand the best way to react (with both SS and DH) if the issue ever comes up.

His public high school is rates one of the best schools in Virginia. I am SHOCKED at how little he has been "steered". It seems as though no one has ever taught him anything about college in that HS. Maybe he shows no interest, and there isnt much the HS can do.

Yes, there are buses to the CC. That will be his option unless he has friends who can give him rides.

One other thing I need advice on: when I get frustrated watching him do absolutely nothing....I get this overwhelming desire to start nagging/picking at him about it. I have to literally fight the urge not to make little comments and obervations about what I am witnessing. Basically, judgemental little snipes. I rarely actually do it, but my blood is literally boiling as I keep myself silent.

1) I assume that actually making such a comment will cause him to despise me, right? and
2) How do I avoid feeling this way, and keep myself from going down this road?

not driving is an issue but could be solved. DD does not drive, I mean she got license with troubles but never wanted to drive, she attends college in a city so no need to drive, when she was 17 I went to her school psychologist to ask if not wanting to drive is normal she said yes, it is normal especially for girls. I think SS will drive one day when it will be necessary.

Now not every not dating teen is gay LOL. But I have a gay daughter (that's why I suggested your SS might have a reason to not care about girls). Most certainly she didn't date while in high school but has been in a serious relationship for over two years now. People who still do not know her sexual orientation still ask why she has no interest in dating at almost 22! Little do they know.. She is not only interested , she actually lives with the same partner for the last 2 years and her relationship is very nice!

on a subject of him being flat, could it be that he is depressed? that could be...

I just asked DD (she is home for Christmas break)on a subject of driving and she said if she would have to drive to get to work and college she of course would, she just never had to, which actually is true. She lives in a very busy city.

about not coming to dads every other weekend...dd still sees dad a lot, in fact more than me because she goes to school closer to dads. I was custodial parent. if dad has decent relationship with SS he will see dad just the same. relationship might change but don't have to end as kids become adults. SS might even want to live with dad now?

On a subject of asking your children if they might be gay...although it does sound ridiculous, some people might appreciate the question and actually it might save them hardships of not knowing how to bring it up...there are people in our family who do not know DD is gay and she wishes they just guessed...they remain clueless.

Well, when DH tried to encourage him to get a Learners permit, and helped him practice the test and enrolled him in a course, he proceeded to fail the test three times in a row. That means he is now "locked out" in Virginia and must take a state approved class before he can even get a learners permit (he is nearly 18) The class is $400 and BM doesnt want to pay for it. DH pays her over $3K per month for SS expenses and really this should come out of it, OR, he should have to get a job to cover all or part of it at least......Bottom line: I dont see him driving anytime soon.

DH told him that living with us is an option, but that he will need to work, attend school, or a combination thereof. I overheard DH saying "you can't just come hear to lay around, you need to have a plan". I dont see it ever happening. The idea of a "plan" is way to stressful. Plus, BM needs him to feed and clean up after her hundred animals she has living in their 1,200 sq ft house.

I think asking him if he is gay would backfire on me right now. If he were to tell BM or DH I asked that, it might cause issues. If DH brings it up, I will encourage HIM to ask. Much safer.

My BIL's brother has always been a little.....different. We all knew something was not right about him, but no one would ever come out and ask. Here are some of the things he would do:
-He would literally throw-up if someone talked about anything having to do with blood. Really this was a very dramatic thing.
-He would tell his dad that he wanted to register for college, get money from his dad, go to school for a couple of classes then drop out (he did this 4 or 5 times) without telling anyone.
-He was really soft-spoken in public, but gossipy in private.
-He forbid his daughter to touch the walls in the house because she might get them dirty.

Just a few of the things that, individually, were no big deal, but put them all together and it made for a strange person.

I aked my sister if she thought he was gay and that the odd behaviors were just manifestations of trying to hold it all in. She said she always thought he was gay, but my BIL and their father would not accept him if it were so. I told her that I didn't believe that to be true and that if he was gay, it would make his odd behaviors make sense.

He and his wife divorced. She kept the daughter, but he had visitation. Then the wife changed it to supervised visitation. He would never tell any of the family why this was going on or why the divorce happened.

About 2 months ago (a year after the divorce was final), he finally came out that he is gay. The bad thing is that a lot of other things came out, as well. He was really into gay porn and child porn, he "defiled" his two female cousins when they were little, and he had been paying for male prostitution.

This guy is 30+ years old and had been fighting being gay this whole time. The psychologist said that the fettish-type stuff came about from his attempt to hide/supress his attraction to men. If he would've come out as a teen, he probably wouldn't be facing some serious criminal charges and not being able to see his daughter.

Now to my point: if you think it's possible that he may be gay and if there are family members who wouldn't be open to it, try to soften them to the idea so that SS would feel more comfortable coming out rather than holding it inside and hiding.

It sounds to me like he has several things going on, including OCD. Could he have been abused as a child?

If DH asks me what I think about SS, I may mention that he could be gay, and that we need to create a safe environment for him to talk about it. But unless asked, I am not going to say a word.

--"One other thing I need advice on: when I get frustrated watching him do absolutely nothing....I get this overwhelming desire to start nagging/picking at him about it. I have to literally fight the urge not to make little comments and obervations about what I am witnessing. Basically, judgemental little snipes. I rarely actually do it, but my blood is literally boiling as I keep myself silent."--

Oh, no, no, no, don't do that even if you have to get up and take a walk, count silently to 100, whatever it takes. If he's doing something 'wrong' (besides just wasting time and/or sitting there) you might mention your concern about the 'offense' to his father (quietly and out of earshot of course), but don't nag, pick and point out , remember your goal is not to push the SS away or make him feel bad.

You did not raise this young man so there are bound to be habits and traits that annoy you to pieces, some you will have to just learn to ignore, some teach by example and others let dad handle. The SS is who is he is, parts that bug you may be his upbringing, parts might be lack of knowledge/teaching (and perhaps he can learn differently) and others just might be personal traits of the SS. Who knows, you might have something about you that just drives the kid nuts too. Be open to the fact that this SS may never be who or what you think your own child might have been or be like if you had had a son and raised him yourself.

If you truly desire a future friendship with the 2 boys (or at least a civil relationship with a bit of harmony)you're going to have to give the boys some time to adjust, mature and see and experience different ways and lifestyles, it kinda sounds as if they've been rather sheltered and not had a lot of guidance other than in their own home setting of their boyhood home.

it sounds now that people assume that every weird behavior means the person is gay lol

let me ensure you that it is not the case since i know very many gay people who have nothing different about them and I know plenty of weirdos who are straight. many people have mental disorders that cause their behavior.

I realize that i am the one who suggested on this thread that SS might be gay because he does not like girls. I regret it now, people misunderstood. I didn't mean he is gay because he is weird (what a strange assumption) I meant because he does not like girls. not wanting to go to school or drive does not mean being gays. too funny. and one does not have to be gay to be into child porn.

My husband used to feel the same way when he saw my son doing nothing -- silent fumes, boiling blood... (Of course, DS could tell.)

I told DS "Look - I'm not thrilled with seeing you waste all this time playing video games and watching crap on TV. BUT - As long as you've done the things you need to do first, I'm not going to make a big deal about it. Have you done A, B, and C?" Then, if the answer was no, the TV and computer were turned off. (I'd leave the room to avoid arguments and dirty looks. Once DS turned his computer back on -- so I took the mouse turned off the Internet and took the TV cable. Didn't happen again...)

Would you husband agree to that type of policy?