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norcalgirl00

The Holidays and Comparisons

norcalgirl78
13 years ago

I have really enjoyed the last week with FSD11 and FSD8 visiting us for the holidays. We had some special occasions over the last week that we were able to celebrate as a family (most importantly younger FSD's birthday and FDH's U.S. citizenship ceremony), and by and large their behavior was good. In general I find them entertaining and nice little people, even though a bit babied and spoiled at times.

Thinking back to Christmas two years ago (the last time they were with us for the holiday) I remember how quickly they ripped through their presents, almost as if to say "Is that it?" I ended up feeling like it was my fault for putting such an extraordinary amount of time and energy into the preparations that they likely were totally unaware of. I decided that as an adult, I shouldn't seek validation from kids but rather to try and help contibute to FDH teaching them appreciation and manners and leave it at that.

This year, because of the recession FDH and BM discussed the girls' Christmas wish lists ahead of time and broke things into categories: what they were getting from us, what they were getting from BM and SF, and what they weren't going to get. FDH included me and asked for feedback and we did most of the shopping together. So even though all the gifts have been agreed on (that it's "enough" and appropriate), I still somehow feel this dread that the girls are going to be disappointed or that

somehow the stocking items (which I picked up myself while FDH was out of town to get them) will be a letdown (or one will want what the other got, etc.). I don't want to be held hostage to that fear! I know they should just be grateful for what they get, but that little monster in me that wants everything to be perfect is afraid. Case in point: when they showed here last weekend they both had department-store quality makeup palettes with dozens of colors of eyeshadow, lipstick and blush included. It wasn't little girl makeup, it was from their aunt and somehow the woman thought those were appropriate gifts for girls aged 8 and 11. WTH!??

I think part of it is because of the comparisons that have been going on the past few days by FSD11. Monday it was "Why don't you have a house?", "Don't you want a house?" and the constant complaining about this or that room in our apartment being too small, cramped, etc. FDH and I live in a perfectly nice and clean but kind of old, two bedroom rented apartment in a city. Their BM and SF live in a new, spacious two-story house in the suburbs 8 hours away that SF bought when they married (he is older and never had children).

Of course FSD11 doesn't know or need to know (especially from me!) that BM and SF just lost their second home to foreclosure and are taking cash advances on credit cards to make it through the season. Somehow they automatically "win" just by having a house, like they are somehow more responsible than us and more "fit" parents. Tuesday it was FSD11 asking why we don't have a pet and harping on and on about the parade of pets their mom has let them have and give away over the years. It feels like jab, jab, jab. What does she want me to say? That I'm a single gal about the city that doesn't want to take care of anyone/thing? I have explained to her a dozen times, as has her father, that we aren't home enough for a dog and have no yard, that a cat would wreck the furniture and we don't want a litter box in the apartment, birds are too loud, our previous fish died, etc. etc.

Yesterday (Wednesday) it was FSD11 saying that FDH and I are too busy and that they (she and her sister) aren't used to going "everywhere" (probably referring to the fact that FDH doesn't have a car and we walk/metro in the city a lot, especially doing errands for FDH's citizenship requirements which just passed, etc.). Later she was complaining when FDH and I were lost in (my) car for a total of ten minutes and stressing out that we were going to miss the beginning of a ballet that she "doesn't like to be in a stressful environment where people are constantly tense". WTF? That doesn't describe our relationship or home at all, and I told her it hurt my feelings and I didn't think it was true. I was tired of walking on eggshells for this kid, especially when those words coming out of her mouth probably aren't even hers! She immediately backed down and was bending over backwards to be friendly with me (I think she knew she crossed the line).

Later that night, when FDH and I were alone he told me that I took her comments too personally, that they were more directed at him. He suspects, and I suspect Divorce Poison, and it is sad. BM's story that she has been building over the last few years to satisfy her conservative family with a reason for her initiating the divorce is that FDH was a tense, angry person and that is why she left him. (What really happened is she met SF and left FDH despite his pleas for her to stay, but the kids don't need to ever know that.) I think that story about needing to "watch out" for FDH's temper has been pounded into the girls because they often state that they fear FDH's blowups, when in fact he is a calm, easygoing person, and I should know - we've lived together nearly four years. I think most of the time it is just a manipulation to get out of consequences; i.e. FSD8 last night was asked to turn off the television (at a quarter to ten at night!) and she immediately burst into tears, claiming her father had "yelled" at her. That is complete nonsense - he was parenting her and giving her instructions which she should have followed. I stayed out of it, but I felt sad for him watching him try to salvage the evening and walk on eggshells to make her happy. FDH said he would talk to BM about telling the girls "stories" from the marriage and warn her about the dangers of divorce poison. I think he also wants a chance to tell "his side", especially if BM is going to play that game, but I don't think it is a good idea. They aren't going to come to an agreement about what happened and who did what to whom - that's why they are not married anymore, and, as a highly decorated veteran of stepfamily wars I think it is best to just leave the kids out of it! I do think he should tell her to stop feeding them nonsense, though, and that they should back each other up as parents and not tolerate disrespect or manipulation from the kids. Usually they are OK at this, but now I'm starting to wonder.

I know I'm over-sensitive to the financial differences between the two homes, but what pisses me off is that I work hard, have savings and retirement, and bust my ass for everything I have. All I can afford is a rented apartment with FDH (and by the way, I am not obligated to provide anyone a fancy home) because I am trying to build savings and pay off my student loans. FDH at the age of nearly 42 has almost half the debt he had two years ago and he has made great strides towards financial responsibility. I feel angry sometimes that BM skated off into the sunset with a new wealthy husband and sits at

home as a SAHM to her new baby son while FDH slaves 70 hours a week to pay their marital debts (from YEARS ago!) and gives her 1/3 of his income for CS. I feel like I got stuck with the mess! I know that I choose to be in the relationship, I understand that. But in my weaker moments I feel angry that she gets to come out smelling like a rose even though at the same time I also would like to protect two innocent children from an unpleasant truth. We will never have a conversation about it! The kids live like princesses with them, private school, eating out 5 nights a week, trips, so many clothes and toys they can't keep track of who has what where, and their father gets none of the credit or appreciation. Instead he gets looked down on - for parenting, for not having a car, for not having a house, etc. It makes me sad and defensive, and I wish Christmas this year would just be over. I don't, and FDH doesn't, begrudge the kids anything. We've never tried to have the CS adjusted - I always thought let BM have the nicer house, nicer neighborhood, let the girls take full advantage of the lifestyle, but I just don't want to be looked down on because of it, or treated as "lesser than".

Thanks for letting me vent. I know I said a lot on different topics...I just needed to get it out. =-(

Comments (36)

  • lovehadley
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Of course FSD11 doesn't know or need to know (especially from me!) that BM and SF just lost their second home to foreclosure and are taking cash advances on credit cards to make it through the season"

    Well, this right there sort of defeats the purpose of treating the girls like "princesses." What lessons are they teaching the girls? That it's cool to live paycheck to paycheck so long as you have your fancy home and cars? That material possessions are to be treasured above all else?

    I guarantee you they don't have a dime in savings and these girls will be in for a rude shock when they are thrust into the adult world after such a pampered lifestyle.

    I really would try not to stress (easier said than done, I know) about them comparing holidays/etc. I know it is easy to do so---but try to trust that they love their dad and enjoy your company, and value---or will, as they grow----TIME with you. Time is so much more precious of a commodity than anything else you could give them. Time, talking, listening, loving. THAT matters.

    That is very sad, though, that they are beginning to question their dad's lifestyle. :( I don't know honestly at what age it would be appropriate to give a little truth about the fact that DAD'S MONEY contributes to their support. They SHOULD know that IMO---it shouldn't be said in an angry or resentful way, but I see nothing wrong with your FDH being more open with the girls, particulalry the older one.

    If it is any consolation, jut know that you and FDH will have a comfortable lifestyle soon---and it will be REAL, not some facade with maxed out credit cards and foreclosures on second homes.

    You are responsible, saving, paying off student loans and building your financial security the SMART WAY. It WILL pay off.

    I kind of empathize in that respect. My DD goes to a very expensive private school that I could NEVER afford but my dad graciously pays. Anyway, DH and I are a good 10-12 years younger than all the other parents of kids in DD's class and many of them are in their mid-forties, well-established with large homes, impressive 401Ks, vacation homes, etc. I have to remind myself that if DH and I continue on the path we're on, we can build the same kind of life for our family in due time---we are just running in a *circle* in which most are in a different phase of life than us! The only thing in common is the age of our kids. If that makes sense. And sometimes I need to remind myself that I should not expect that sort of financial security at my age.

  • imamommy
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    She hasn't ridden off into the sunset... the sunset is far down the road & she is setting up her kids to give her a bumpy ride. If she "wins" at poisoning them against daddy now, it will come back to bite her later on. After all the crap BM has pulled, she's already asked DH to talk to SD about her attitude with BM & BF... they set themselves up without realizing the backlash will come to them as the kids get older. There's very little doubt in my mind, that your FSK's know what mom is about but they feel a loyalty to her NOW. As they grow, their loyalty will most likely turn to resentment.

    As for the comments, simply say "oh really?" "that's nice" and about where you live, if you feel the need to provide an answer, perhaps mention that there are pro's & cons to every situation... you like living close enough to everything so you can walk (it's better for the environment than driving everywhere) or a big house is a lot of work (with repairs, maintenance, cleaning, etc.) & you'd much rather spend your time planning fun things to do than to keep up a big house. It's not a competition and as long as you don't compete, there isn't much they can do about it.

    It may feel like jab jab jab, but could they just be very curious about your life since they don't visit often & you live a very different life than they do? Sometimes it's hard to imagine how others live, especially when someone lives a sheltered life. (that is just another thought I had)

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  • silversword
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh Norcal, I feel you. SD does the same thing, and DH is also paying off marital debt...And BM has also foreclosed a home....yet SD is just in this blissful spoiled brat place where she gets everything she wants and expects to be entertained 24/7.

  • norcalgirl78
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Love, thanks for the support. It was nice to get a pat on the back after the week I've had! Ima was right about the curiousity factor - I think they are curious, because they are a bit sheltered in regards to being exposed to other lifestyles (other than suburban, I mean) but I also think that BM fills their head with some of this, something I will talk about it another thread (which I have just been too bummed out about to post yet - we had our own ridiculous drama on Christmas Day). I can totally relate to you too Silver, re: an SD who expects to be entertained. As much as I care about them, I found their visit totally exhausting to the point where, after driving all day Sunday to get them back home, I decided to stay home yesterday from work to mentally recover.

  • mom2emall
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Norcal things will turn around. BM will loose her home and have to move the kids somewhere else. You and your fdh will get out of debt and be able to do/have more eventually if you want it. Things always have a way of turning around.

    When my ds was young I left my ex to go move home with my dad and go to college. Around that time my ex got a great job and within a few years he had a house, arm candy (skinny blonde gf), a huge yard, and a convertible. My ds always went to his home and came back talking about all the things his dad had....as we were stuck sharing a bedroom in my dads home. I cried sometimes just thinking about how great his life seemed! I never told ds that his father and I split up because his father was horrible and mean to me. I never talked badly about what his father had.

    But the economy changed and his father lost his home, car, girlfriend, etc. During that time I had married a wonderful man and we bought a house together with a yard and dogs, etc. We are now where my ex used to be in life. It is funny how things have a way of coming full circle.

  • silversword
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Norcal, I almost posted a thread very similar to this. I forgot this one was going on.

    No matter what I do, SD says "my mom...." and then acts as if her mom has a PHD in (cooking, cleaning, washing clothes, sports, etc...)

    Dad is cooking me some chicken soup. SD says "my grandma makes chicken soup and it's the best and it takes her all day to make it." I make some comment like "that's nice" but she won't stop... "ohhh and it has this and that and it's like this" and then she says " dad have you ever had grandma's chicken soup" and dad is like "yes, I have" and so finally I have to just shut the trap.

    SD, did you know that DD's father is a chef? Have you ever heard of _________ hotel and ________ restaurant (sd is always asking, did you eat here, have you eaten there). Well SD, they are the top on the west coast. DD's dad has cooked with those restaurants, and he is currently a chef to very famous people (this matters a lot to SD, being rich and famous). And let me tell you SD, your grandma's may be really good, but DD's dad makes the BEST chicken soup. (at this, DD is really glowing).

    And, it's true. My X did make the best chicken soup. :) Probably still does.

    But it's like that with everything. EVERYTHING. No matter what someone does, her mom does it better.

    Example: we have a pitiful lemon tree. PITIFUL. And SD says "we have a beautiful big lemon tree in our yard, much bigger than yours" and I said, "that's nice, DD's dad does too, it's 30 years old and just magnificant". And SD says "so's the one at my house, it's 30 years old too". Ahahahahahahaha. No. It's not. I can tell by looking at their house there was nothing 15 years ago but dirt in that spot. No subdivision. No lemon tree. Sorry sweetie.

    I know this is normal, I do. But boy can it get IRRITATING!!!

    AND, mom lives the life she lives because she has black widowed her way there. She sucks the life out of men, then lives off the proceeds. And her brother helps support her.

    Am I jealous of her big house and fancy cars? Yes, sometimes, when I let myself go to that dark place. But just in general I'm pretty happy where I am. Until someone rubs my face in what I don't have constantly.

    And NorCal, I try to get DH to tell SD stories about when she was younger because she's convinced that he was never around, which is BS. Her mom has made it out like he abandoned her, but the timeline doesn't add up, if you know what I mean. Once they started talking she had all of these "memories" pop up... WOW! Amazing. So you do remember your dad was there....

    But DH didn't want to talk because he says he's afraid the truth will come out. It really strains their relationship because BM says all sorts of things and DH will not stoop to that level so he just looks like he doesn't care, or didn't care, or like she was the good guy.

    It really chaps my tush.

  • myfampg
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You guys BM sound like my SM!! I am on the flip side. Read my 'school drama' post for more.

    My therapist ( I always answer posts with this sentence lol) says to say well here we do it this way and there you do it that way. There is no right or wrong to how either of you live. You live how you live and it's awesome and she lives how she lives and it's awesome.

    If you know that her house was foreclosed and that she is taking cash advances on credit cards, then you know to much. That is so personal and if she is sharing, then DH needs to tell her not interested In knowing - thanks. I will tell you what everyone else has been telling me. Stop worrying about how they live and just enjoy your time with the kids. Who cares about the makeup - aunts are notorious for making purchases that are unreasonable and out of line. My sister in law does it all the time. It's her money not mine. And the make up goes to ruins so it's a waste but not my waste.

    DD has name brand everything at BDs house. Makes me feel a bit poor sometimes but on the flip side, I know my DD is well dressed and it wasn't from my check book. Also, the child support. Get over that. It won't change and telling them about it will make them bitter later on at you or Bd. My real dad always complained that he was paying for my mom's car. Ya well maybe but someone was also putting a roof over my head and feeding me. All in the same pot.

    I do feel for you because I have the same feelings. We rent and BD is living in a nice big house. So I do feel your pain on that one. Just know when you are old and no longer paying child support, debts paid off, retirement will be so sweet!

  • imamommy
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "As much as I care about them, I found their visit totally exhausting to the point where, after driving all day Sunday to get them back home, I decided to stay home yesterday from work to mentally recover."

    When DGS began staying with me, he was 9 months old & it took months to adjust... with four adults pitching in to help take care of him. My "baby" is 20 years old. It's been that long since I've done diapers & bottles. To be honest, I was happily looking forward to an empty nest in a few years. (at least with SD11, she is old enough to do things for herself) so it was a huge adjustment taking on a baby. I love him with all my heart, but it really is exhausting... my son is here for two weeks (he leaves New Years Day) and while he's been here, he has taken over caring for his son. On the third day, I realized just how exhausting it's been, & it took me a couple of days to relax. I know it's not the same because he's a baby, but we go through the same thing with SD... she was gone for a week at BM's for Christmas. By the time I was able to relax & really enjoy the peace & quiet... she was back. She doesn't ask annoying questions or openly compare (because we've ignored it in the past & when she complained to BM that I compare her to when I was a kid or when my kids were her age... well, when she's tried to compare me with her mom, (or DGS with her baby brother at BM's) I tell her that she doesn't like to be compared so why does she think it's okay to compare? That stops her in her tracks. But her ignoring me, running back to her room & closing the door when she hears me coming down the hall, waiting until I leave in the morning to come out & talk to DH (& running back into her room if I forget something & come back) gets very annoying & mentally exhausting. It makes coming home stressful when I know she's going to act like that.

    "No matter what I do, SD says "my mom...." and then acts as if her mom has a PHD in (cooking, cleaning, washing clothes, sports, etc...)"

    That brought back lots of memories of grade school... kids I went to elementary school with. Kids that bragged about being rich or worldly... c'mon, at 8? Really? I remember in 1981 (6th grade) one girl telling me 'MY jeans are the "genuine article"' as if they were designer duds (complete with turning her hip to show me the LABEL so I can see for myself she wasn't lying), they were LEVI's.

  • parent_of_one
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well since BM got huge inheritance all we hear is that what mom has and where mom goes and how much money mom has and what mom promised she'll buy for SDs and what mom pays for. Annoying.

    I was telling SD how bad things are at work (financially speaking, no raise, but more demands) guess what SD says "oh poor you, you have to work for many years to come, my mother is retiring this year (she has the same line of work as me) because she has so much money she does not have to work anymore and does not need full pension".

    I said "good for her", but I was tempted to say "I am much younger than your mother, I am not ready to be retired".

  • lovehadley
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "If you know that her house was foreclosed and that she is taking cash advances on credit cards, then you know to much. That is so personal and if she is sharing, then DH needs to tell her not interested In knowing - thanks."

    I have to agree with this statement. This is something I personally have really had an *issue* with in regards to my DH and BM. He's gotten oodles better but in the past, he would allow her to keep the relationship MUCH too close. He knew WAY too many details about her life, her marriage, yada yada.

    I know how she is----she just runs her mouth to whomever will listen but it got to be really frustrating.

    She still does it occasioanlly, tries to get little comments in here or there, and I don't even know why. Just last week, she told DH that her rent was so late last month, they had $450 in late fees.

    ?????? Why?! ??????

    I cannot for the life of me figure out why she feels the need to tell my DH these things. That one is mild. She used to spill all the nitty gritty details of her marriage, her husband's job, her husband's daughter, his own custody issues, blah blah.

    The way we keep it now: the less we know, the better. Also, within reason, we try to apply the "what she does at her house is her business, what we do at ours is our business." So long as SS is SAFE, that's all that matters.

  • ashley1979
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I try to get DH to tell SD stories about when she was younger because she's convinced that he was never around, which is BS. Her mom has made it out like he abandoned her, but the timeline doesn't add up, if you know what I mean."

    That is EXACTLY what is going on with DH and his kids! BOTH kids act like DH is the problem in their relationship.

    Out of his son's 24 years, he was seeing him pretty regularly until he was 12. After that, the son got busy with activities and didn't want to visit and DH and BM (not son's mom) started having problems and got a divorce. So DH didn't see him for a few years, but always called frequently, sent money, e-mailed, and went to his graduation. DH helped him get a job when he was about 20 and gave him a car. But when we went up there for the wedding, we were outcasts. His wife made some remarks at the wedding that DH thought he could just show up and take SF's place. What???? Ummm....SF has been taking DH's place for years! They've all got it backwards! Seems like she has heard a bunch of lies, or interpreted things the wrong way. But, you know what? They have no problems cashing the checks DH sends. They had no problem driving the car DH gave them. They have no problems accepting gifts we send.

    DH had me scan tons of pictures for them of when he was little. Even pictures of him and SD together so maybe he will remember they have a relationship and things aren't what he was told they were. I thought that was a great idea, and it seemed like it helped a little. We got a nice thank-you note from the wife. But then, of course, no responses to the Christmas gifts and money we sent, not even when DH called, e-mail or texted. Go figure.

    And I won't even go into all the ways SD has been told DH abandoned her (even though they aren't true).

    I just want to scream out "DH DID NOT ABANDON HIS KIDS!!!"

  • silversword
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "...no responses to the Christmas gifts and money we sent..."

    I have a cure-all for this one. Next time send the check. UNSIGNED. When they call to let you know you didn't sign it, sweetly inform them that you wanted to make sure they got it as you haven't been sure in the past.

  • ashley1979
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL! That's a good one! I may have to mention that to DH. So what do you do after that? Send a signed one?

  • silversword
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sure, tell them to send it back and you'll sign it... and for them to "make sure" to let you know that they've received it.

    If they don't, consider yourself off the hook forever.

  • parent_of_one
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is rude to not respond to gifts or cards, they are rude.

    But I think when kids do not see parents for years (whatever the reason), it is hard for them to figure out why and hard not to blame. Yes maybe there are pictures but those are from the distant past. Of course they feel abandoned. I don't need to show DD pictures to prove that i was there, in fact I don't even have many pictures and ex has even less.

    I don't think it is kids' job to figure out who is at fault for not seeing them. Maybe they think that dad sends money and buys cars to compensate for not being there or he feels guilty. Maybe they think that sending money is the least he can do or that he owes them.

    I am not saying it is all dad's fault, and kids are right and he is wrong, but in kids mind that's how it possibly looks. He'd rather buy a car and send checks than actually have a relationship.

  • silversword
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OF COURSE that's how it looks! It doesn't help that BM is tweeking the picture so that is EXACTLY how it appears. Except you forgot one thing.

    Dad BEGRUDGINGLY gives a VERY SMALL amount of $$$ while BM slaves away to provide lifestyle. Obviously, dad doesn't care.

    When other bio-parent tells kid "bio-dad/mom" wasn't there for you, didn't care for you, etc... sometimes pictures are worth the proverbial 1,000 words.

    My SD's BM told DH that she thought it was suspicious that he met me and then wanted to have relationship with SD. The way she put it was "now that you're with a woman with a child, all of a sudden you're interested".

    Hm. What she didn't realize is that before me DH had been in a two year relationship with a woman, who.... da da da daaaa... had a child.

    DH had moved cities to follow her (could have refused, made her stay in his city according to divorce decree). He could have taken her back to court because she would not show up for arranged pick up/drop offs with SD. BM made it nearly impossible for DH to see his daughter. So for two years, he barely did. And then he pushed and pushed again, and now we see her a couple times a year.

    AND, guess what SD told me this time? "I just think it's weird that dad didn't want to see me until he met you and you have DD".

    Oh yeah..... SD just CAME UP with that little poop-nugget herself.

    Kids are little mimic-machines. And many are poisoned against their bio-parents because it's more convenient for the other parent if kid only loves them, only feels safe with them.

    It's not kids responsibility to figure out who is at fault for not seeing them. It is PARENT responsibility to ensure truth is told so their kid doesn't get screwed up.

    SD had been told her dad never saw her so that's what she believed. How many of you remember how often dad was around under age 6? It's BS! Then once dad started asking "do you remember ____" or that person, or this outfit, or this or that... and SD started saying "yes, I have that stuffed animal in my room, I always wondered where I got it" or that yes, she remembered going as a princess for halloween and going trick or treating with him, or or or... and there are DOZENS of memories she's all of a sudden remembering and her little face is LIGHTING UP.

    WELL.

    for shame. that's all I have to say.

  • ashley1979
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree, Silver, wholeheartedly!

    PO1 Of course that's the way kids see it. It's part of the nature of living several hours apart. How can he possibly "be there" for his kids when they live a minimum of 10 hours away?

    It's not like it started out that way. The respective moms moved with no regard to ripping their kid away from their father. Should DH be expected to pick up and move wherever they go. Especially in this economy. Let's say that when BM moved SD 10 hours away DH decided to move too. First of all, he would still be here if he waited to move til he found a job. They don't build roads there, and that's what he does. Second, let's say he did move before he found a job, BM would be getting way less CS and then be b*tching about that! But at least he was "there" for his daughter, right?

    I'm sure DH's son has conveniently forgotten all the times HE made the decision to skip a visitation as a teenager. I'm sure he has conveniently forgotten all the calls and e-mails he didn't return to DH for years asking when is a good time to go visit.

    SD, too. So funny how DH and I were so important to SD when we were doing things like baking turkeys for SD's all-consuming activity or running her to this performance or that performance, but now she doesn't need us. Hmmmm....strange.

    I'm keeping a spreadsheet of SD and BM's antics so that when she is older and says that DH abandoned her and blah, blah, blah, I can say, "No, he tried everything he knew to do." I wish someone had done that when his son was younger.

  • norcalgirl78
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mom2, that must have been a really hard time "comparing" and just trying to do your best for your child while watching ex be a jerk and live the high life. Although there is a part of me that wishes BM would reap the consequences of her actions, I have to suck it up and actually keep my fingers crossed for her, for her finances, for her marriage, and for her happiness, just so that the girls don't get hurt more. Although at times it does piss me off. At the end of the day what I do will set me up for whatever happens, and I have insurance and estate planning for the rest!

    Ima, the "my mom, my mom" I can relate to. I heard far too much of it during this visit for my taste. Makes me cringe thinking of all the times I probably said it at my dad's as a kid and a teen, too! I guess there is a difference between the innocent comments and the jabs, but in the tween years it's getting harder to tell.

    Myfam and Love and their comments about knowing too much about BM's financials made me have to stop and think. When I first met FDH, I was surprised by how he talked to BM on the phone, completely neutral with no emotion whatsoever. He may well have been a robot. I thought he was still angry. When I got to know him better, I realized it was his way of taking his power back, not just in the conversation, but in a life where he won't be able to get away from her, but at least can choose to not let her continue to affect his emotions the way she did when they were married. I was always amazed at his aplomb and lack of need to say a single word to her outside of talking about the kids, even what we would call "normal things". When she babbles on, he listens, and reciprocates with absolutely nothing. I have actually been grateful for that while reading threads from others about how their DHs tell things to the ex! ARGH!

    The kids had been spending time with BM and SF going out of town to work on this other house to try and sell it (after their renters apparently bailed on them), and since FDH calls every day he knew about how the kids were helping with it (paint, etc.). I don't know how or when BM told him they lost it - I never thought to ask. My guess is that it happened in the context of her giving him money to come and visit. When they got divorced and did the parenting plan, she lived in our state (I didn't know him until 2+ years later) and CS was based on a number of things which have since changed in her favor. He ran up thousands of dollars of debt renting cars and motel rooms to see them every month early after the divorce, and she had moved 8 hours away and was no longer bringing them every 2 weekends because of the distance (she was supposed to bring them after 2 weekends, then 2 weekends later he was supposed to go to them, and so forth, essentially he was supposed to be seeing them 4 days per month somewhere).

    So finally last year FDH told her the expenses were becoming cost-prohibitive and it wasn't fair because he was entitled to see them. So she offered HERSELF to reimburse him cost of rental car, gas and motel (I think she was afraid he would try to have CS adjusted and she knew she was robbing him and wanted to keep it out of court). So to keep a long story long, last time (about 2 months ago) she gave him the reimbursement for his visit she paid him $200 with one of those cash advance checks your credit card companies are sending (and you are shredding). He told me about it in surprise because he is (a) not from this country and was not sure what it was and (b) in the context of having a more fiscally conservative Christmas for the kids. So in that regard my conclusion was that the woman can't even come up with $200 in cash by any means. So whoever (Love?) said that they don't have a dime in savings is exactly right. Very responsible - for people who are employed, homeowners, drive new cars and eat out all week!! Hope that all makes sense.

  • parent_of_one
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One can maintain relationship long distance, it won't be the same but it still could be done. It would be primarily over the phone and email and maybe only few times a year actual visit. It is understandable one can't see long distance kids every week. I meant being there as having a relationship not physically being there.

    I have a friend whose grown son moved to Japan. Yes she sees him only once in two years. Very expensive and way too far. I don't think all BMs moved all your SKs to Japan. I live 8 hours flight (not drive) from DD I still see her twice a year. She lives 2 hours flight from her dad and sees him every few months. He used to live 11 hours flight from DD and still they saw each other. 10 hours away (I don't think you mean flight) is not a different planet, it is not that far.

  • silversword
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    PO1, you are missing the point. First of all, you're talking about grown children. Whole different ball game.

    My DD maintains a relationship with her father. They talk on the phone, she flies out to see him. It's a 6 hour flight.

    But, and I think I've said this before....

    It would be so easy for me to corrupt their relationship. Sure, 6 hours is not that far. But my X can't afford to be flying back and forth. He's a business owner, he is married to his business. Even if he has money he has no time.

    I am the one who moved away. I am the "move-away BM". I had multiple reasons of which I will not go in to because frankly it's no one's business. But let me just say, this was the best option I could see at the time for me and my daughter, and the safest.

    My DH calls his daughter. BM doesn't answer the phone.
    My DH calls his daughter. BM answers the phone, but interrupts after a few minutes to say they have something to do.
    My DH calls his daughter. He asks when a good time to call will be. Evidently, there is no good time.

    When two parents are willing and able and want to foster a good relationship between the child and the other parent, long distance relationships can work.

    All too often that is not what happens. I know, because I see what I do for my DD and her BD and what BM does for DH and SD. She plants a bunch of half truths and blatant lies and does her absolute best to make sure they don't form a close relationship.

    And if she's this bad now, I can only imagine how she was when the divorce was fresh and she was really angry.

  • lovehadley
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    " am the one who moved away. I am the "move-away BM". I had multiple reasons of which I will not go in to because frankly it's no one's business. But let me just say, this was the best option I could see at the time for me and my daughter, and the safest."

    Silver, I am also a "move-away BM." My DD's bio-father has not seen her since she was six or seven months old. She's going to be NINE this spring.

    I moved away just a week after she was born; I had wanted to leave prior to her birth but was too far along in my pregnancy to do so.

    Does her BD think I *took her away* from him? Sure. Or at least a part of him does. And a part of him is right.

    I did make it tons harder for him to have a relationship with her. But I did NOT make it impossible. Those first six months when I was back in my homestate, DD was not considered a resident. BF had those six months in which he could have filed a paternity suit; had he done so, there is a VERY good chance the custody case would have been in HIS home state, my DD's state of birth. It is VERY possible---and my attorney WARNED me about this---that I would have had to move back.

    BF didn't file anything.

    I filed a pat. suit against HIM when DD was one year old. He wanted nothing; in our parenting plan, his attorney even put in a clause that said, "Respondent acknowledges he has no plans to exercise visitation."

    Distance makes it hard to have a relationship but NOT impossible. THAT SAID, it is VERY TRUE that the BM (or custodial parent) has a greater ability to help OR hinder the relationshp with the noncustodial parent.

    Like in AShley's case; or in Silver's SD's case.

    Custodial BMs can choose to be supportive of the parental relationship, the way Silver is; OR they can make it damn near impossible, like in Ashley's case with her DH and SD.

    Silver makes her DD's relationship with her bio-dad a PRIORITY because Silver is responsible and a good mother who understands the importance of THAT relationship.

    Ashley's SD has been brainwashed by a mother who does NOT value the parent/child relationship between father and daughter.

    "When two parents are willing and able and want to foster a good relationship between the child and the other parent, long distance relationships can work"

    This is so true. It really does take TWO parents willing to be flexible and work together to foster a relationdship between the child and non-custodial parent.

    Moving away puts a greater responsibility on EACH parent, regardless of who moved away. I do agree that typically the parent who moved away should be more responsbile for travel costs, etc. But there are always factors to consider.

  • parent_of_one
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I do agree that CPs can influence and damage the relationship. I know they could make it difficult for NCP.

    My point about adult children was if they want to see their parents, then it means relationship was formed while they were children.

    If your SKs/BKs grow up and still don't want to do much with their fathers, then there is no relationship. You can's say BM keeps them away. There is just no relationship, no cars or checks could fix it. Time will tell.

    I was also move-away BM for our own reasons. But my ex could be a very obnoxious person (that's why i divorced him LOL) and he would make my life nightmare should I prevent him from seeing DD, he is very annoying.

    I don't know if I would be able to pull this alienation off though. When DD could not see her dad for few months, she sat and cried in her room, and after her brother was born, it got worse. I just don't know how I would justify letting my child cry and still not letting her see her father?

    But maybe if she would not care either way or resisting visitations or had no connection to her dad, then I don't know, maybe I would encourage but would not push for her to see her father.

    I never prevented their relationship not only because that's proper thing to do but also because that relationship clearly meant a lot to DD. I don't take any credit for it though. It is all ex's doing. He is awful husband but he made sure there is a relationship with DD. I give him that credit.

    I understand about far flights. I fly 8 hours or buy DD tickets to fly here (she can't afford it at this point). It is expensive for me. I have to cut on other things. My ex owns a big company and he is CEO of it, he hasn't been flying lately either. DD flies to see him (plus see her siblings and grandparents) , it is about 2.5 hours flight for her. It is truly not far.

    I understand it is tough to take time off work, but you can't explain to a child that I have a business to run and could not see you, what kind of excuse is that. It is not how it works. That's what i was talking about...Kids do not know or care what is the true reason: BM is nasty or dad has demanding job. They form their opinion and it will be a hard work to change it.

  • silversword
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kids do not "form their opinion" without help.

    Kids do know and do care if "BM is nasty or dad has a demanding job".

    My SD did not "form her opinion" that DH was not around, and only started coming around when he met me because I "have a daughter". That came DIRECTLY from her BM's mouth. There is absolutely no way a 10 year old could come up with the exact same statement as her mother, not 6 months later.

    BM fed those stories to her. BM influenced her into believing her dad was not there for her. I don't know how old your DD was, PO1, when you divorced her father. My SD was one year old when her parents were divorced.

    My DD has no memory of me living with her father and I left him when she was three. I firmly believe that had I moved away and remarried (as SD's mother did) and had my dd call her SF "daddy" (as SD's mother did) and never brought up BD except to say that he and his family wanted nothing to do with her and didn't love her (as SD's mother did, I know, because SD TOLD ME)....

    Well. What is a child to believe? Mommy, who is always there? or BD, who is not?

    I think you can explain to a child that you have a business and cannot fly out to see the child very often. My DD understands and I don't have to explain it to her. When she goes back to see him, she sees herself how busy he is.

    "What kind of excuse is that"

    Honestly? That's not an "excuse". It's just the way it is. DD's father works extremely hard at a profession he loves. He always has. He did before she was born, he did when she was a baby, he still does. He does not get common holidays off, because that is busy season. It's reality.

    DD understands that BD cannot take a lot of time off in the way she understands I have to work certain hours. Because we both make an effort to show love, consideration and the time we can with her she understands that we are there for her, and that this is her life.

    Sure. She may grow up and form an opinion about the way she was raised, just as I did with my parents. But you know what? Healthy adult children with healthy adult parents realize their parents are HUMAN and probably did the best they could under the circumstances.

    At that point, good will either outweigh bad or it won't. Depending on how much integrity the parents possessed.

    My dad was not allowed to form a relationship with me as a child. PAS was for certain a part of the dynamic. And lies were told by my mother that have just only now come to light.

    The problem is that it takes so much work untangling the lies that often people cannot work through the issues as adults. Kids don't grow up and have these really clear-fact based opinions. If they did, we'd have a nation of 20 year old super geniuses running around. It takes time, it takes perspective to really understand our past.

    As with my DH, to drive the six hours to visit SD one way... only to have BM say she can only be gone for an hour... and then have that hour be taken up with propaganda...

    I can see why DH would get frustrated and say he'll wait until she's a little older and can understand. Problem is, in hindsight, is that mom has been poisoning the whole time that dad doesn't want to see kid, dad doesn't make effort, dad and his family don't love child.

    And now SD is more comfortable with Mom, because Mom, seriously, sets it up so that she is the ONLY one who can make SD feel ok.

    Sure, some relationships are not formed because BD/BM don't make the effort. Some are bad parents, some are neglectful.

    But there are also the parents like my DH, Ashley's DH who really want a relationship and are thwarted at every turn.

  • ashley1979
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "As with my DH, to drive the six hours to visit SD one way... only to have BM say she can only be gone for an hour... and then have that hour be taken up with propaganda..."

    This is EXACTLY what has happened with my SD. We drove to her city on a Thursday for a cheer competition. Got there about 7:30 PM. DH texted her to tell her we were there and ask if we could see her. She seriously said "I have to rest." Huh? So then the very next morning, BM calls DH and asks if we want to go with her to pick SD up from school at 10:30 AM and take her to another cheerleader's house. Of course, DH JUMPS all over that little crumb of time he could get, even though BM will still be there influencing everything. So we go to the 1st round of competition that night and had to beg BM to let us bring SD home (10 minutes away, maybe). She lets us because she has to prepare for the next day. Did you see that? SHE LET DH DRIVE HIS OWN DAUGHTER HOME. So that's 10 minutes. The next day we got another 10 minutes alone with SD when DH told her we had her Christmas and birthday gifts in the car. Another 10 minutes alone with her when DH, again, begged BM to let us drive SD home. That's when BM whispered in SD's ear "Just 10 minutes, okay" before they left. Oh, but the next day was golden! We got to take SD to breakfast for 1 whole hour before returning her to BM's so SF could take her to acting lessons.

    So let's add this up...20 hours driving and 2 days and 3 nights in a hotel so we could hang out with BM and DH gets 1-1/2 hours with his daughter. We spent over $400!

  • ashley1979
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    PO1, I get what you are saying. You would think that if there is a strong bond, nothing could keep kids and parents apart. Unfortunately, that isn't reality for many of us. It makes no logical sense. I say that to DH all the time. Priorities are set FOR kids, not by them. Kids have no other choice but to trust that their parents have their best interests at heart.

    In the case of DH's son, they had as close of a relationship as they could have had with living so far apart until the son became a teen. At that point, friends and school activities became more important and his mother allowed his relationship with DH become less and less. My opinion is, after having finally met her, that she was enjoying having her only child all to herself and let it go from there.

    In SD's case....it baffles the hell out of me. They had a very close relationship before she moved. BM started separating DH and BM in September before they finally moved in March, but she couldn't separate them completely because they lived in the same town. I never, in my wildest nightmares, expected SD to be so distant from DH. Never, ever, ever. She was a daddy's girl.

    SD remembers BM and DH being together. She remembers BM's wedding to SF. She knows all of the time DH spent with her and all of the things he has done with/for her. She gets his texts, call and messages. She knows the truth, but chooses BM over DH every time. She shouldn't have to make that choice. It should never have to be BM or DH. But that's what BM made it.

    DH let her go there so she could be with family. Other than DH, SD had no family here. DH knew she would be better off living close to her GM and aunts and uncles and cousins. So, yeah, I guess it really is all his fault. No matter what he would've done or what he could've done, he will always be the bad guy.

  • parent_of_one
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I understand that some custodial parents make it very difficult for noncustodials to see their kids.

    But I don't understand how could someone not allow NCP to see the kids (unless visitations are terminated as per court order).

    I see how good CPs on this forum have hard time legitimately withdrawing visitations with horrible awful NCPs that don't even deserve to see their kids, yet it is so difficult to prevent crazy parents from seeing their kids (like in mattie's or myfampg situation). They worry to be in contempt if they keep their kids away from crazy NCP.
    Yet somehow your BMs had power to not allow visitations with perfectly fine NCP. And no contempt, no charges, no drama, no violations. I just don't see how all these BMs violate the law and nothing happened. Really? Crazy nasty BM of mattie's SS was banging on the door to get her SS, yet nice fathers had no chance?

    I understand it was difficult to maintain relationship. But I think some parents chose the easy way out and what happens now that kids see it as abandonment.

    ashley, what BM does is nasty yet no law would allow her to give dad only 10-minutes visitations. With long distance dad would get summer break, holidays and school breaks. And she would be in contempt if she tried to pull the tricks. If dads know how awful their exwives are, not having court orders and visitations set up is the easy way out.

  • myfampg
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Omg parent of 1 yes! I do not understand how BMs get away with it!! If I did that I would be on supervised visits not BD!! But on the other hand, if NCP does not legally pursue to insure their rights are protected CP does whatever they want. I can't even email my ex without clearing it with my attorney because if it's at all nasty or at all finger pointing they will send it straight to the judge. We have had the same judge for 4 yrs and she gets copied on all coorespondence. Literally, I have her in my contacts and she is CC'd on everything...
    Parental alienation is illegal and punishable by 6 months in jail and a $500 fine for each offence. Thank the Good LORD. If it were illegal 10 yrs ago my brother might have had a chance to be a father to his now 15 yr old that thinks he is a jerk for joining the military and 'leaving' her mom. If he was only given the chance to tell her, 'i signed up before I knew about you' she may feel differently about him. But for all these years he has tried calling, he pays child support on the dot, never late, sends packages, no thank you, no I got it, no I hated it - Nothing! Because she hates him because her mother has brainwashed her out of her own bitterness at their failed relationship. People like her are WHY I am the kind of mom I am... Although my ex is a jerk and I don't think deserves one ounce of credit but he is her daddy and I wouldn't have her without his help. So what do you do?

    Also in our state, CP cannot move out of the county or contingious counties. If I move, she gets to go live with BD. I want to be a move away BM but the court said no ma'am ... I got a really nice job offer from a friend of a friend but across the country. I asked my attorney, he said you better decide what is more imortant. $$$$ or seeing your child every day. I get that people move for whatever reason - I have no opinion otherwise, except I wish I could because I hate living so close!! But that's just me.. I know DD would suffer though...

  • parent_of_one
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think myfampg if NCP does not want to make any waves and does not want to upset their exes, then they make a choice to not pursue their rights. then yes crazy CP would do whatever they want. I guess CPs know that their exes won't do anything about it, so they run their crazy shows. Kids suffer at the end. yes parental alienation is a reality, but if NCP does nothing about it, it will never get punished and will never stop.

    But think of it, NCPs could also do alienation. Brainwash the kids when they visit, tell them stories, tell them things about their mothers etc Like you are a good mother and your ex is a jerk and when DD visits him and SM are doing alienation by forcing her to call them certain things and not allowing to bring her stuff.

  • silversword
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "NCP does not want to make any waves and does not want to upset their exes, then they make a choice to not pursue their rights."

    Yes, that can happen. That's not what is happening with Ashley's DH (from what I can tell) or my DH though. So why are you harping on that?

    My DH did make a choice not to pursue his rights. He is not going to FORCE his DD to spend time with him. Do you think it would be more healthy for DD to be told by her mother "you could be doing __________ but instead your dad doesn't care about what you want to do, he's going to make you ___________ instead". Do you think that would make their relationship better?

    Should Ashley's DH continue to drive and spend $400 a pop for 1.5 hours of face time?

    Should my DH go to court, get the visitation enforced and MAKE SD spend half time here? Their order is 50/50.... this is her homestate. Should SD be forced to quit her school and attend a school in her CS state?

    See, FD, I think what you don't comprehend is that you have been relatively "in charge" of your DD and have no understanding of any other way.

    My father NEVER told me anything bad about my mother when I was growing up. I DID think he didn't want me. But looking back I can see that so much conflict was because of BM.

    My dad just told me the other day that when he had me, my mom "forced" him to take my stepsister too, and that we fought all the time. So, if he didn't want to take her too, my mom would tell me "you can go to dads, or we're going to __________" and of course I would tell dad that I'd see him another time. Because a lot of my childhood when I went to dad's house, mom and family did the MOST FUN THINGS EVER. Like travel to a super fun location. Or do an activity with girl scouts that I couldn't make up, so everyone would have the badge but me.

    PO1, of COURSE NCP's can do alienation. ANYONE can. That's why DH tries really hard not to say anything to SD that could be construed as negative about her mom.

    It has nothing to do with not upsetting BM and everything to do with trying to make SD have a good childhood. My DH is trying his hardest. You may have another way of doing things. I may have another way of doing things. It doesn't mean any of them are right or wrong.

    Do you think the kid would suffer more or less if their parents were in an ugly custody battle? Do you think the CP would be more or less inclined to dump their BS on a kid? Do you think the kid would be more willing to see NCP if they were FORCED and they knew it was enforced, or if they choose to do it on their own?

    Just in general, kids prefer their mothers when they are young. They want to defend their mothers. They feel safer with their mothers.

    I don't think any of us know what it's like to be a father.

  • lovehadley
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Do you think the kid would suffer more or less if their parents were in an ugly custody battle? Do you think the CP would be more or less inclined to dump their BS on a kid?"

    So true.

    My DH has had *unofficial joint custody* ever since SS was ten months old. He had SS every Tues, every Thurs. and every other weekend. BM was agreeable NOT because she supported their relationship but because, frankly, she wanted nights off to go out and party.

    She threatened for years to "never" let DH see SS again. Finally, when SS was five, DH took BM to court and was given *official* 50-50 custody. Then a year later, with her drinking worse, he went BACK to court and got residential, meaning SS goes to school in our district.

    BM is continually threatening NOW to take DH back to court to get residential. Because she doesn't like to *drive so far to SS's school.*

    And you know what? Dh has said that if she did that, he might consider NOT fighting. Because it would NOT be worth it to put SS through ANOTHER court fiasco. It was terrible, stressful and awful for everyone involved, most of all SS. Fighting, mud-slinging, just awful.

    Personally, I don't see BM ever having the $$$ to go back to court---and if she did, I would say SHAME on her. SS has already attended three schools in three years; this is his second year in OUR district and he just really NEEDS that stability.

    Last year, BM and her DH moved about 10 mins FARTHER away from SS's school. Their lease was up and they had the option of moving closer to our house---which THEY chose not to.

    Selfish? I think so. And if BM were to try to pull SS from his school again, I think that would be selfish, as well.

    I don't know for sure what DH would do but I would not fault him if he chose to give SS a more peaceful existence.

    Like Silver said, it IS---especially in her case or Ashley's case---about wanting to give the child a good childhood, even if it ends up being to the NCP's detriment.

    Fair? Of course not. But sometimes the right thing to do is not always the FAIR thing. And Silver is right in that none of us know what it's like to be a father, particulalry a NCP father.

  • parent_of_one
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think when a child is older then there is no point to force anything if children don't want to visit.

    But if young children see their fathers on a regular basis since young age, then they develop a habit of seeing their fathers and having relationships with them. As they get older, they want to visit because there is a relationship.

    Asking for reasonable visitations does not have to be ugly custody battle at all. Unless dad is unfit he would be awarded visitations. He isn't getting it because he never asked, he asks BM, she says no, so he is not pursuing. I don't see how it benefits anyone.

    There is no need to force a child to move or quit schools, yet spending summer vacations and school breaks or every few months or monthly visits are reasonable expectation. Any judge would award that. No need to move a child but denying her rights to see her father just because BM says "no:, is just ridiculous. It does not benefit children and takes away their rights and gives all the power to custodial parent.

    If a child gets older and does not want to visit, then is pointless to insist of course. Too late, opportunity to build a relationship is gone. But that child was young at some point.

    No, you missed the point, i was not in charge of DD, that's my point. If i attempted to be the one in charge of my DD's relationship with her father, I wouldn't be successful in it.

    BMs like your SD's, or ashley's SD's are in charge of their children because they were allowed to be. Your DHs ask BMs for a permission to see their children and that where the problem starts. BMs should not be in charge.

  • parent_of_one
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If children want to see their fathers but BMs prevent it from happening (I was under impression that the issue is BMs not willing to give dads any time with children?) then yes BMs need to be forced to give up the authority and let judge to develop visitation schedule.

    I never meant that children need to be forced TO SEE their dads but BMs need to be forced to provide visitations, phone calls and so on. Then if dads have regular communication and visits with kids, then kids develop bonds and they would want to see their fathers. Nothing needs to be forced on children.

  • parent_of_one
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I thought some more... and no, not every parent must have half time, it is not always necessary or beneficial for a child.

    Half time due to geographical distance might be unreasonable (primarily due to school enrollment) however not seeing a child and having none, or very infrequent or very short visitations just because BM says "no" is even more unreasonable. It is not in BM's hands.

    I did have parenting plan and reasonable visitations schedule developed together with ex with no court or mediators involvement. But if were unable to negotiate on our own, then yes one of us or both would have to ask for help from experts or law enforcement.

    If mom doesn't cooperate and dad does not ask for help and not have any plan, then they make a choice not to see their kid. I just don't see how it is beneficial? Unless they believe that it should be mom's decision when kids see their fathers? It only gives crazy BMs more grounds to claim that kids are abandoned. If a kid just spent 3 months with dad, mom would have much harder time to tell a story how dad abandoned her.

  • silversword
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    PO1, all I can say is you have no experience with PAS either as a child or as a parent. You're welcome to your opinion, but frankly, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    Every situation is different. Like mine. My SD wants to see her dad and is willing to forgo fun things to make it happen. I was pleasently surprised that she said "no Mom, I don't care if sports camp is during the holiday, I want to spend it with dad." WOW. That's mature for 10. Especially since Mom is saying now she'll fall behind and not be as ready as the rest of the team.

    Not all kids can see that, and I'm not expecting it to happen again.

    Ashley, I feel you. We're in the same place of having little to no control over the situation and watching the pain unfold. ((((hugs))))

  • ashley1979
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Silver! I will take all the hugs I can get!

    (((hugs back)))

    Back on the original topic...comparisons...you know what makes me sad? These kids aren't really materialistic, though it seems that way. What they are really doing is trying to relate, on any possible level, to people they love, but don't know much about. Does that make sense?

    In the case of my SD, I am apalled that her mom takes her shopping so much. Since I've known SD, almost every single day has been filled with shopping somewhere. Could be Costco, Wal-Mart, the mall, furniture store, house-hunting, etc. It's like that's all that BM knows to do with her at times when SD doesn't have an activity. And when she would spend weekends with DH (long time ago), she would always want him to take her shopping. At first I thought it was to buy her stuff. After a couple years, I realized that it's the only way she knows how to spend time with people.

    Norcalgirl - I think that maybe the comments the girls made are their attempts to relate to you in some way. They are kids who don't know how to start conversations or keep one going.

    I think that's what my SD was doing when she was talking up her new house before she moved. She talked about the plasma TV and the jacuzzi and blah, blah, blah. We were so hurt that we couldn't see what I am now seeing...she was probably trying to include us in the excitement of her new world more than she was bragging.

  • shakti2574
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We will never find happiness and love by living by other people's standards. If the kids compare this or that, then perhaps it is time to teach them a lesson about humanity & humilty, about compassion, about living within our means, and about being who we truly are.

    Perhaps the best question is not how to deal or make the kids happy, but really is how to deal with our own insecurity and the fear of imperfection. By accepting our own imperfection, we will grow and grow, but by fearing our imperfection , we will become paralyzed and be subject to the whimp of others.