Yeash. I sympathize. I'd feel pretty mean too. But I'd just tell them that they need to ask their father. Since they are adults it wouldn't be too inappropriate but you'd come off "smelling" a little better if you don't say anything.

My SM tells me TONS of stuff I'd rather not know about her relationship with my dad. And I DON'T ask. That is inappropriate. Since you are both adults (and I'm assuming she is truly an adult, and not just by age-default?) and she is asking, I'd be ok with just telling her you want more than he is willing/capable of giving right now. It's a perfectly valid response/reason.

And LOL on the "live with me, pay my bills" scenario he offered. Ummmmmmmmmm. I'm not a big Dr. Laura fan, but she has a point when she calls women who give the milk for free "unpaid whores" sometimes. Don't do it. You're worth far more than he is willing to "pay" for you.

"I was very tempted to tell her that being a family is not something your father is planning on doing, any time soon or ever."

Even though your motive may feel 'small', in all honesty, I don't see how diplomatically telling his kids the real reason for your separation is inappropriate at all. (If the reason were that he was gay or cheating or addicted, I'd feel differently.) They're adults. They've been in relationships that have ended. They know there is an issue of some sort, and frankly, the real issue is much kinder and fairer to both you and their father than virtually anything else they may be imagining.

For what it's worth, I'm sorry about your situation. From what I've seen, any man who can't make up his mind about a woman in four-to-five years is NOT a man who's committed to building a life with her. I can understand a bit of 'marriage-shy-ness' -- though that too should be surmountable when he's sure he's found 'The One'. I'm sorry to be blunt, but if he's not sure now, either you're not 'The One' in his mind, or he's too indecisive or scared to ever make a true and full commitment. Stop wasting your time with a relationship that's not going anywhere.

If you can make a CLEAN and TOTAL break, it might shake him up enough to realize what a idiot he's been -- if that's the conclusion he comes to. But anything else will just prolong the pain and indecision.

Above all, don't settle for the paltry deal he's offering. He's so clearly protecting himself from you that it's positively insulting...

I did make a break. I am out of relationship and live on my own. Since then he made some bizzare "promises" like will marry me in 4-5 years. Before he wouldn't even say that. But if he doesn't want to marry now, why wait another 4-5 years. The only thing is that i am going to get old. In any case since I have left he calls every few days and comes up with different promises. None of promises are apropriate for me.

he is sure I am the one he wants to spend life with, but I will tell you what exactly he is afraid of. It is marialistic approach. His wife unexpectedly left him and he lost a lot finacially. Lost half of his retirement etc. Had to refinance the hosue, and houses don't sell now etc. he is farid that he will marry and will have to lose everything again if it does not work out.

what he does not understand though that if you want your marriage to last and your wife not run out on you, you gotta be a good husband. that's what he needs to worry about...well anyways, it sucks.

Thanks everyone. I might tell older DD in nice terms. i don't want them to think that it is somehting minor, it is rather major. i am lucky my DD does not care either way. LOL

That's what pre-nuptial agreements are for -- to make sure that if the marriage doesn't work out, that he doesn't lose things he should not lose. Same for you.

For adults 'of a certain age' who have already accumulated substantial assets and raised their children, I think pre-nups are the rational and sensible thing to do. You spell out what assets belong to whom, which kids inherit what, how jointly-acquired assets will be handled, etc.

If he's willing to commit to marriage (soon) with a pre-nup, that would be an offer worth listening to. Everything else smells...

Sounds like he wants his cake and eat it too... what's in it for you?

Tell his kids what you are comfortable telling them... I would keep it simple, like "we have different goals" or "different ideas on a future" or tell them to talk to him. Of course, saying nothing & referring them to dad, they are going to get "his" version... but then again, it doesn't really have a lot to do with them and they are adults that should know that sometimes relationships just don't work out even when the people love each other. Love does NOT conquer all.

I so agree, love is not enough. I don't worry that he would tell them some messed up version of our disagreement, I am pretty sure he won't say somehting too nasty about me but even if he would what do I care...

Now since I told him that this arrangment is not going to work for me he kept calling and admitting that this arrangement was not nice and he has other thoughts now. ha. i wonder what thoughts he has now...what other nonesense.

I am pretty busy with family stuff this week and the next week and am not up to listening to his suggestions. Will listen after the holidays or maybe never. But more I am on my own more I start liking it. :)

Good for you Fine, you deserve to have nice holiday and to enjoy being with your family.

I can't believe he thought what he was offering would be attractive to you? My gosh, why is it when you love somebody so hard you end up their whipping post?

I still vote with telling the kids like it is. Will you see his kids over the holiday?

~Cat

FD,

Sounds like he wants a roommate with "benefits." And on top of it, you won't even have any ownership in the house. Now that is a lack of commitment.

I don't think you should tell his kids. Maybe yours but not his. That's for him to do. If they ask what's happening you really should tell them to talk to their father. If he doesn't answer, well, that's between them.

4-5 years is basically saying never! I'm sorry this is happening to you. You can do better and deserve better.

Yes, 4-5 years is the same as never. Since I said "no" he changed it to 2 years, and some other dumb ideas. Will see. I don't think i need to beg or manipulate someone into commitment. They either want it or they do not. And now I am not even sure I want it. I think that's where the problem is, I don't think I want it that much since this relationship already caused me too much stress, between his ex and his issues I stopped enjoying it.

cat, I don't want to see his DDs over the holidays, it is too much and is rather stressful for me. We exchanged holiday emails but that's it. SO (or rather exSO) is upset he won't see my DD. Oh too bad. My DD does not really care what I or her dad do in our personal lives, so no explanations needed.

I don't think I am going to tell them anything at this point. I think they guess already.

"I don't think i need to beg or manipulate someone into commitment. They either want it or they do not."

Very wise words, FD. And very true. Just because you're married doesn't necessarily mean you're 100% committed. And yes, it's possible to be totally committed but not married. Commitment isn't in the spoken promises -- it's in the underlying feelings and actions. And sadly, he's made his rather clear.

You're also wise to realize that you may not even want it ---

Finedreams I have to say you are such a strong and smart woman to move out on him. While I understand his uncertainty about marriage because of how much he got hurt in the past, I think his way of dealing with it is lousy!! Didn't you split up before? Or is that someone else I am thinking of??

nope same guy, mom2emall. We split at some point (again my initiative) then I came back rather quickly. We've been together for over 3 years, I joined this forum because I had questions pertaining to his children. Frankly before him I had several years of not dating at all. So couldn't be anyone else. same old same old. LOL

sweeby so true, he might marry because otherwise I wouldn't come back but who needs this kind of arrangement? I am not desperate.

"any man who can't make up his mind about a woman in four-to-five years is NOT a man who's committed to building a life with her. I can understand a bit of 'marriage-shy-ness' -- though that too should be surmountable when he's sure he's found 'The One'."

That "marriage-shy" "I'm afraid you'll mess me over financially" stuff is nothing but misdirection designed to put you on the defensive so that you fail to notice what's actually going on;

He gets what he wants & doesn't give anything in return;
you do not get what you want & you pay for the privelege.

& the next chapter to this story is that the woman who hangs in there, who agrees to "wait" & "be patient" & pay half the bills & shoulder the responsibilities that a partner would shoulder...
gets a call one day that she needs to move out because he got married over the week-end.

seen it, heard it, got my shoulder wet from other women's tears.

yes, I'd tell them.

Keeping someone else's tacky little secrets enables that person to continue the same behavior with other victims, including his children.