By your statement, "I have such fear and animosity to the idea of him living with us", I would say don't make the move. You can certainly build new memories but you can not erase the old ones. Your SO has a family and they will always be his family.

I understand exactly how you're feeling Rory. I had all those same doubts and feelings of jealousy (followed by guilt), when DH and I moved in together. I was so happy to finally have met the man I wanted to spend the rest of my life with and I wanted to make new memories with him -- but he and his son came as a package deal and that meant I had to adjust my expectations and deal with the disappointment occasionally. And I had to listen to the "Dad, remember when..." stories. But even worse was when SS came home from a visit with BM telling stories of things that didn't even involve him -- things like, "Dad, remember when you had the car accident because you and Mom were kissing and you weren't paying attention to where you were driving? That was really funny, huh?" ARGGG!!

I think it's normal for you to feel like you want to make new memories and start fresh -- you are entitled to that as a couple. However, you have to remain realistic, in that you will have to deal with Skids and the EX. That can't be avoided if you're going to build your life with this man. Sometimes it will be painful and sometimes it will anger you. Sometimes you'll wonder why you ever got involved with a man who has kids. There is no "getting over yourself". You just have to live it, and learn to cope. I think that's what most of us stepparents are doing every day.

Hang in there. It WILL get better.

"Sometimes it will be painful and sometimes it will anger you. Sometimes you'll wonder why you ever got involved with a man who has kids. There is no "getting over yourself". You just have to live it, and learn to cope. I think that's what most of us stepparents are doing every day."

Well said.

I think that if you do not want to live with someone else's young children, you should not get involved with men with minor kids. It is pretty simple. I did not want to raise someone else's young children, so i never even dated anyone with young kids. But if you decide to start dating men with minor children and get involved, you always run a risk of their kids living with you full time. What if something happens with their mother, they end up with you full time no matter what. Heck Sds are adults yet we run a risk of SD22 moving back home to attend school. There is always a risk they end up living at home.

You have options: break up and find a man with no kids, continue dating him and not move in until kids are adults, move in and put up with the situation. Choose wisely.

I agree. Find a man with no kids. I did. I know I am not stepmom materiL. God bless you all!! I often use my conflict resolution therapy with my ex and DDs stepmom in posts bc I have learned so much so I hope it doesn't annoy anyone.
* children have a right to love both parents
* children have a right to their memories and their stories of their family unit
* children should be allowed to talk freely about all aspects of THEIR life when at the other parents house.

If you can't respect that, then you need to move on.

And you also cannot blame that child for looking like his mother - my DD looks just like her father. Eyes, nose, hair, facial expressions and she is absolutely gorgeous!!!

You can't come between this man and his children - your man will resent you later and your marriage will fall apart.

And he will still have his children.

"* children have a right to love both parents
* children have a right to their memories and their stories of their family unit
* children should be allowed to talk freely about all aspects of THEIR life when at the other parents house."

good point, I agree with it totally.

But I do think though that children (not young kids but as they get older) need to learn to have some tact when sharing. SD22 loves to shove family pics in my face and say" PO1 look that's me and my mommy", look that's mommy daddy and me." LOL she is 22.

Her mother is very ugly looking woman (I am being honest here), she looked even uglier when she was young, she looks like a big heavy man, she is also a heavy drinker and looks hideous plus she left my SO for the other man, her drinking buddy. I do understand SD still loves her mother and I would never deny her that, I always speak nicely of her but why on Earth she is showing those pictures to me????

My DD is always encouraged to share memories and she is very close to her dad yet she never came up to my SO and said: "look that's my daddy and mommy when they were young". LOL That woudl be pretty dumb.

I also agree about the fact of looking like the other parent is not even important. My DD looks a lot like her dad and nothing like me. Why would it bother anyone?

..."why on Earth she is showing those pictures to me?"

I'm going to go out on a limb here.

First of all, our mothers are rarely ugly to us unless they treat us badly. The mother being ugly has nothing to do with her daughter. Neither does her drinking or leaving her husband for another man. None of this has anything to do with her daughter.

Speaking as a SD, I think she is showing you those pictures because she wants validation. Perhaps she knows her mom is not all that great and she wants you to validate her value. When the other parent is erased or discounted it also discounts the child.

My DD tells my DH "look, that's me and my dad and mom" or whatever. She's proud! And she should be! I show my SD pictures of her family and tell her how wonderful it is that she got her mother's height and her daddy's frame and her mama's eyes.

It only bothers people that the children look like other people if there are unresolved issues. I admit, sometimes DD looks at me, especially when she was a little younger, and ALL I could see was her dad and it would aggravate me to no end. If the child has looks and mannerisms like the other parent and they are not attractive... it can be really annoying. And vice versa: If the child is exceptionally beautiful and gets that from the parent who is no longer around, living or dead, it can make people feel awkward.

It's our job as grown-ups to make sure our feelings for the other adults do not filter down to the children in a negative way.

So what I'd say PO1, is your SD is in need of something from you. You've mentioned how ugly your SO's X is on multiple occasions. It's apparent to me that you really think she is ugly, both physically and in her demeanor. Have you ever validated the fact that SD had an intact family at some point and that she liked that/wanted that/misses that??

I know that my relationship with my SD got incredibly closer once I expressed to her that, for her sake, I wished her dad and mom had been able to work things out and she had them together. But I really love her and her dad, so I'm really glad to be a part of their family now. (and I also reversed it for her that for my DD's sake I wished her dad and I could still be together too)

And my SD's mother looks like she was beat with an ugly stick. Her personality sucks. But I do nothing but say nice things whenever SD brings her up. Like, "does your mom have almond shaped eyes like you? because that must be where you got your beautiful eyes". Or when she comments on her long legs and how tall her mom is I'll say "you're both so lucky to be so tall and slender. I sometimes wish I were taller! Your mom must be able to reach the top shelf, lucky girl!"

And she beams. Because she loves her Mama. And she wants to draw the line. I acknowledge the line, and show her that I respect her for her love. And because of that, she doesn't have to defend it.

It is Internet forum, i can say that BM is disgusting LOL. I always say the nicest things about their mother to their face(don't have to on gardenweb though LOL ). I do laugh about it here though, LOL glad there is a forum where I can say their mom is ugly inside and out and I don't have to pretend I am excited. hahah That's what Internet forum is for LOL

SDs have great relationship with me, they are happy their dad has me, both publicly and privately acknowledged that, especially it makes a big difference that their mother has a significant other who is inappropriate and embarrassing (just like she is) and they avoid him like a plague. It would be miserable if their dad also had embarrassing significant other. They are both embarrassed about their mother and her choices and I feel for them, they are not that close to their mother which clearly sucks for them. I am glad DD never had to be majorly embarrassed of her parents and their choices in partners. Her SM is very nice, and my SO is nice most of the time LOL

I just recalled when i first saw BM's pic before i even met her, it was a tiny old pic, i thought it was a pic of SO with his cousin because she looked like a huge man with crew cut standing next to skinny 20-year-old SO. hahah i asked who is that guy? hahaha He said "that's my exwife" hahahaha Glad I didn't ask SD that. hahah

"I know that my relationship with my SD got incredibly closer once I expressed to her that, for her sake, I wished her dad and mom had been able to work things out and she had them together."

I sure did the same thing because i wish everyone stayed in intact family, i am glad my parents did! SD's reaction was funny, she screamed that "oh please no, our parents had such awful marriage that we were so happy they got divorced, we were so glad they stopped trying to work it out." haha Here we go.. They sure tried to work it out for 27 years. That's how long they tried.

silvers i have grown up relationship with SDs. My SDs are adults, they are not children. I see them very often and have close relationship especially with older SD (we are closer in age), we talk about lots of private and deep things in person and on the phone, as well as email each other (not to say they do not get on my nerves, they sure do, but that's what gardenweb is for LOL). My experiences are very different from yours.

saying all that I still say here that their mother is very gross, yeah, I can say that here!!!! haha hahah

PO1, sure sounds like you have a "grown-up" relationship with your SD's. Aren't they the ones who go in the house without permission, use your computer (that's why you changed your screen name, right?), steal your luggage and use your clothes without asking???

Isn't oldest SD the one who is spoiled, hard to get along with, with no friends and who is attached to the hip with her dad? So much so that he was lying to you about her coming to visit him at his house before you were living together?

You're right. Your experiences with your stepdaughters are very different than my experiences with mine.

I have no issue with people venting on here or saying things here they would never say in real life. I do the same. But you dis' BM and call her an alcoholic when you've had the same issues with SO, right?

My point was not that SD's want mom and dad back together but that she may be showing you pictures in order to get your approval. Perhaps she looks up to you and wants you to validate that she is part of something that is valuable.

IMO, continuously shoving pictures of someone who is not in the picture anymore in front of the new SO is rude and juvenile. Even my DD8 knows better than to make a big deal out of such things. She knows because we have a close relationship and I tell her when her actions, innocent as they may be, could be hurtful to other people.

"Her mother is very ugly looking woman (I am being honest here), she looked even uglier when she was young, she looks like a big heavy man, she is also a heavy drinker and looks hideous"

So, what you're saying is that your SO was attracted to an ugly, heavy drinking woman that looks like a big heavy man? YIKES!

"It only bothers people that the children look like other people if there are unresolved issues. I admit, sometimes DD looks at me, especially when she was a little younger, and ALL I could see was her dad and it would aggravate me to no end. If the child has looks and mannerisms like the other parent and they are not attractive... it can be really annoying."

Until someone pointed out to me that SD is the spitting image of BM, I really didn't see it. When I met SD, she was very overweight & looked nothing like BM or DH, both are slender. But, as she lost weight & got taller, she does look exactly like her mom... facial expressions & mannerisms. It is annoying. I have struggled to keep from associating my feelings toward BM with SD, however as she gets older & is more responsible for her own actions, it's very hard. I used to excuse it that she's just a kid & that is how she was taught.... she's desperate for her mom's attention so she lies & does things to hurt me to get her mom's approval... but where is the line (or is there one?) Do we excuse behaviors because they were raised that way? Do we allow them to keep doing things that hurt us, even after we tell them it hurts us? That is one of my biggest conflict with myself over my relationship with SD. Does she annoy me so much because she's "just like her mother" who has very few good qualities that I can see or does she annoy me because she lies, manipulates, stabs me in the back and uses me? (which by the way are some of the same things her mother does.. but as she gets older, I feel she has a choice to do hurtful things or not; I believe she chooses her behavior knowing it's hurtful to others.) I agree there are unresolved issues, yet not sure how to resolve them. Talking with SD has done no good, things just get worse the harder I try. Disengaging has been the only thing that helps me cope, however I still feel bad for her when BM lets her down... and SD is still trying to manipulate. She calls her mom, goes into her room with the door closed & talks so loud I can hear her clearly several rooms away... telling her mom how wonderful things are here & talking about how excited she is to do all the wonderful things over there. I don't know who she is trying to convince.. her mom that she loves it here so her mom will be jealous and take her to outdo us or does she want me to think she's going to go to her mom's and get to do all the fun stuff she can't do when she's here? Either way, she's lying to both of us since she confides to DH that her mom hardly spends time with her and we know that since she has all D's & F's again this semester, she isn't doing anything fun here either.

Sorry if I went OT. If I could have foreseen these problems progressing to what they are now, I think I would have kept looking for a guy with no kids or grown kids. It's TOUGH!

I have to comment on the picture that PO1 thought BM was her SO.
My SD had a picture as her screen saver on her phone. We were in the kitchen and she a little distance away from me. I caught a glimpse of her phone, I thought she had a pic of a boy, so I asked "who is that boy on you phone" in a joking way because she had not shown an intrest in boys yet so I thought maybe she had her 1st Bf. Her reply "thats my mom" I apoligized and felt terrible. I told my DH just incase. Nothing was ever said. I still feel bad about it even typing this....

I guess so iammommy. LOL well she didn't look as hideous then as she does now but she did look like a man, she was not heavy though just generally big bone. I guess love is blind. haha He was 20 and a virgin, she was a bit older and already had boyfriends, he was horny and dumb so to speak LOL I was very surprised that he was attracted to her, they don't seem to match at all. Her current boyfriend is a better match. I understand that looks are not important, but her personality sucks too.

My brother and my SIl do not match at all either, but similar stories: he was very young and a virgin and horny. LOl Knocked her up, had to marry. But I have to say even though my SIL is somewhat crazy, she is not a bad person and does not behave the way BM does.

jess, you thought she was a man, ouch...Hopefully you can blame it on your poor eye sight. Need glasses...Can't see well, wow, maybe we have the same BM

Here is what is annoying me. I hear nothing but 'so was young and dumb and horny' are you kidding? Don't excuse him by saying her was just young, he would never have been with her if he had been smart!! What makes you think he has gained intelligence? Years? Age? Experience? The fact that he was a virgin and she had boyfriends which makes me think you are referring to her as a 'wh0$e'... You know what exDHs wife says about me? Well he only married her because she got pregnant. Wow! Was she there? Does she realize I didn't want to get married but he asked and yes I change my mind but NOT because I was pregnant. Not ALL of my marriage with exDH was awful. We had a great first few years and a really bad last year that started off with the loss of twin second trimester babies. We fell apart but she will swear up and down that exDH hated me and never love me... Wow cause when I moved out he was crying hysterically begging me to stay. And for a year after that begging me... I don't know I just sometimes hate hearing all the crap about the BM or the SM is ugly or fat or whatever. If she is a deadbeat, that is one thing but are we really critisizing physical appearance? ExDHs wife is super thin and I think she is very pretty (hard for me to say) but she is so insecure that all she could do was tell me how ugly I was and how my a$$ was the biggest she had ever seen... I was 8 months pregnant with DS ... Yep... I was wide... Lol

Anyway, I know from personal experience if you feel tha way, you are putting it out there with body language. You may not even realize it! And anything you may say or show towards a child's parent directly reflects on that child. 4, 14, or 30... Trust me!! Even at 30...

However, there are boundaries... The kids should respect you period. At 22 (whoever that was with 22 sd) she needs to grow up. I said children not adult children. Once an adult although they hav a right to both families.. They aren't children trying to put the pieces together in their heads... They are adults!!!

Good luck / really this is a tough situation.

I don't know if she was a whore or not when they met, possibly not. But later on she had couple of brief affairs during their marriage, and finally left SO for the other man, the one she is with now. She is into alternative life styles, she goes to swingers resort with her BF and does not make a secret about it, SO was never up to this type of things, she found someone who is.

I don't know if he gained intelligence (I do hope though he is smarter at 52 than was at 20-I am smarter than i was at 20), but i think he chooses wiser, at least he looks at something more compatible. I am not saying I am that great, but I don't have affairs, am not a swinger, don't pass out drunk at my own children's events LOL I am pretty boring.

As about ugly, i say it here for fun, not to anyone's face. And no, not everyone is ugly. My ex's wife is nice looking and is very appropriate. Prior to marrying her he had a long time girlfriend (we have been divorced for a very long time) and she was also pleasant. Heck if BM was a nice person i wouldn't care if she is ugly or not. Maybe someone else thinks i am ugly haha Do I care? No.

Rory:
Raising our own children is often a challenge, let alone trying to marry or be with someone who has children. The dynamics becomes more complex and complicated, esp. when the child(ren) is already in the teen years. Love and bonding with others need time and history to develop. You have to come in with an open mind and acceptance of what had been there before you, otherwise you will be very disappointed and will be rather very un-happy. If that is the case, then be truthful to yourself and walk away. There are plenty of single men without children out there for you.

I became a widower w 3 D, from 10 to 16 year of age, so any one who wanted to be in my life had to accept that fact for my children had no place to go and no one else to support them, but me. I am a loving and committed father and will not give up my children for another woman.

One beautiful divorce whom I dated for several months, wanted nothing to do with my kids. She wanted all of my assets left to her if I die and nothing to my children. She even called them b*tch. She stomped out of the car when I shared with her the pain and suffering we had had from a wife & a mom died tragically from car accident. Of course, I left her rather quickly before I would have lost my children.

You will have to assess what your dream and hope are. Perhaps his package is not the right fit for you.

That's really good advice Shakti. How horrible that you lost a wife and your children lost their mother. I'm sorry, and I hope you have found someone who loves you and respects that you had a past.

Myfam, exactly. Pot says kettle.

And I just have to say, in a completely unrelated hysteric moment....

"Perhaps his package is not the right fit for you."

(mmmphhh...snort... giggle...muffled juvenile snickers)

Sorry.

"Wow! Was she there? Does she realize I didn't want to get married but he asked and yes I change my mind but NOT because I was pregnant. Not ALL of my marriage with exDH was awful."

Before I met DH, I can't tell how many men I dated talked badly about their ex. I had more first dates that included how he was trapped or how she turned out to be a cheater, took him to the cleaners.... the whole marriage was bad! It was definitely a deal breaker for me to hear that on a first date so I didn't have a second date with anyone until I met my DH. I think lots of guys feel they need to make the new woman feel secure that there are no lingering feelings for their ex, so they talk her down... or they rewrite history to put all the blame on the ex to make themselves look better. Or whatever the reason, I noticed it a lot when I was dating & the last thing I ever wanted was a guy that hates his ex... because if I am ever his ex, that would be me he's talking that way about too.

My DH talked well about his ex. I met her, I liked her but couldn't see what his attraction to her is. She's taller & more athletic than he is and she isn't very attractive. (she has a huge mouth) but she seemed nice. Over time though, she presented herself badly. She was loud, abrasive, demanding, and reminded me of a tomboy. She calls herself a redneck, wears trashy clothes. She likes to be the center of attention & gets in your face. She has no class & I couldn't imagine her with my DH ~ he's mellow, an OCD neat freak, doesn't drink/smoke (she does both), just completely different than her. I'm short, quiet, more of a homebody like DH. Of course, DH told me she was not like that when he was with her, and I have seen her change when she is single vs. when she is seeing someone. She's like a chameleon to be what the guy she's with wants. Who knows what kind of person she truly is? But,that she has shown her true colors, I think she is downright ugly... but it's not about her looks completely, it's more about the things she does to her daughter that disgust me. She put pictures of her falling down drunk on her social network site & her daughter writes "haha, look at mom!", she discusses court proceedings with her daughter, etc. (That was before SD came to live with us F/T) So, I liked her at first but as time went on, I then started to see things that, as a mom, disturbed me a little... but thought "to each their own". I wouldn't want my kids to see me falling down drunk. DH says pretty much the same thing, though he never saw her being a bad mom... she tried to play the role of perfect wife/mother but over time, he caught her stealing money from him & he thinks she was cheating just before they split up. She's now with a new BF, playing super mom to his kids & doing the same thing... new guy, new baby, same game. When he started to see her reality, she got pregnant so he stays with her... at least for now. Again, it disgusts me to see another child starting life the way she had SD & I can only hope/pray that she does not do to this new child, what she's done to SD. Only time will tell.

The dislike I had for her has turned to complete disgust (I don't hate her, I think despise is a better word) as she is slowly destroying her daughter... each time I think she can't sink any lower, she proves me wrong.(I mean who comes late to a birthday, no gift & refuses to spend an extra hour? But then she has to add insult to injury by telling her that her poor new baby has suffered long enough to even be there... I've never wanted to slap someone so much as I did that day, standing there hearing the words come out of her huge mouth!)

I don't think anyone can say what really happened in a past marriage. Only the partners of the marriage know their own perspective... and each may rewrite history a little or a lot but they will definitely see things differently.